


April 16, 2009
Discussion Topic: Judge Rules 9-Year-Old Too Young For Shotgun
From The Spokesman-Review:
Judges in family law often face heated disputes between divorcing parents over issues such as visitation, getting kids to school or providing rides to soccer practice.
Try adding a shotgun to the fray.
Last week, Superior Court Judge Sam Cozza affirmed two previous decisions requiring a Spokane man to wait until his 9-year-old son turns 12 and completes a hunter safety course before he can give him access to a shotgun. . . .
The legal issue isn’t clear, said Brent Ferguson, chief firearms instructor for the Inland Northwest Wildlife Council. Washington state imposes no age limit for hunting or access to firearms.
Check out the full article and tell us your reaction? What would you do if you were in the father’s shoes?
Comments (21)
Comply, period. What does the guy think he is really teaching his kid? If the judge says 9 is too young and you don't, appeal it, but meanwhile comply or loose your son, period.
I do not think it is the courts place to make this decision. I believe that a parent is far more qualified to decide if their child is capable of safely handling a firearm. From reading the story I do not believe this had anything to do with the kid having a shotgun. This was more about a fight between two divorced people and the kid being caught in the middle. I do however believe that the father has no choice at this point but to comply with the order or risk losing his son. He should appeal this order and keep appealing it until the order is overturned.
That's crap - pure and simple.
very well put, ke7cjw.
You took the words straight out of my mouth.
Nate
Someone get this man a lawyer from the NRA and appeal. All we need is some judge making a precedent on what age a kid may handle a firearm.
Should he have supervision, hell yes.
I agree with vtbluegrass, you would think the NRA would be more than happy to appeal this. Since when is it the states job to decide when my child is old enough to accompany me and let me supervise him shooting in a safe and responsible manner.
Definitely sounds like classic divorce infighting. The judge was way out of line on this one and doesn't seem very informed. Unsupervised access, no way, but under close and absolute supervision I don't see why it would be unduly dangerous. The child is probably at much greater risk driving in a car.
I plan on starting my son alot earlier than twelve but only with me observing and supervising every second. A child who knows how to handle firearms and understands the risks is much safer than one who doesn't.
Is this really about a shotgun or is it more about a pi$$ed off ex-wife who is trying to do anything to get back @ her ex-husband?
It may not be, but I've seen many examples of kids thrown under the bus just so Mom or Dad can exact some revenge.
Either way, this guy better do what the judge says or he'll lose his kid for years.
Jim
Definitely sounds like it's none of my business. My son is 8. I'm teaching him to shoot. He doesn't own any of the firearms though, and doesn't have access to them except when I'm teaching him to shoot.
I agree with the judge. He is to little yet. Maybe you can introduce him to a .22 it is smaller. I didn't get my first shotgun until I was 10 or 11.
u gotta be kiddin me. thats the dumbest thing i ever heard this kids gotta miss shotin for 3 year because of 1 dumb parent and 1 dumb judge. this kid cant shoot a real gun subervised by his father but i bet his mother will probly let him play a video game were he shots people in the head
once again, a pretty crappy job by the reporter.
The reporter never described the circumstances under which this kid was allowed to "possess" the gun. Likely because the reporter assumes that anyone owning a gun at all is an "evil" act.
If the guy let a kid go running around with a gun, without any prior lessons or supervision, there is probably a case to be made for parental negligence.
-> Let the negative feedback for rational thought flow!
If the guy was supervising his kid or had given him prior lessons and deemed him responsible enough, then this is one of the stupidest, most reactionary, most overreaching court decisions I have ever heard of.
This is a shame, and seemingly unconstitutional. Someone go and disbar this judge. Who the hell does he think he is? How the hell are kids supposed to learn to respect elders or authority figures with this kinda thing going on?
It's terrible when kids get caught up in this crap.
The ruling applies to the father...so could someone sponsor a hunting trip for this kid? He deserves it after this mess.
Ken I agree, most reporters have only one thought guns are bad if you own a gun or allow a child to shoot a gun then your bad. I wonder if they think if our Olympic shooters just picked up a gun the day of the event. I also dont agree with the judge I belive it should be my job to decide when my child participates in shooting sports, but I also dont know the circumstances of the divorce case. Like mentiond before could just be a pissed off ex.
I was shooting guns by age 9! This is rediculous! If there's no law concerning age to own a firearm, why does he have to wait! Judges are supposed to interpret the law, not make it, but unfortunately that is not true nowadays.
I remember back when I was stationed at Eielson AFB Alaska ready to head out to run the range for recreational shooting, My Daughter age 9 wanted to go and help, sure load up! While I was watching the line she asked if she can shoot my 22-250 I told her it was ok. She went back to the truck pulled the shooting mat and grabbed the ammo box and brought it to the line in front of the tower. Then she went back by herself and carefully pulled my Remington 700 BDL 22-250 from the ATV gun boot, pointed the rifle away in a safe direction, opened the bolt, looked and stuck her finger in the chamber then walked up to the firing line then carefully laid the rifle down pointing down range all text book perfect. After shooting a couple of rounds, this Major came bouncing up to me and demanded to know who in the hell is watching this kid and before I could respond just happen standing next to me was his Commander and boy did he let him have it. “That kid requires less Adult supervision than you do lieutenant!
My 9 year old Grandson Alex is safer and a better Sportsman than a lot of Adults I know!
I find those that say age 9 is too young, I find them in the dictionary between Ignorance and Stupidity!
The proper age of a person is based on, the desire to learn and second the mental capacity of the person! I’ve seen Adults to be the most and I’m going to leave it right there!
The ignorance to train a person with the desire to do something leads to dangerous and deadly consequences!
Any challengers?
BRING IT ON!!!!!!
that is just crap i am 15 i got to shoot when i was 11 i miss out on a lot i dont want others to miss out like i did.
One more thing,
I know beyond a reasonable doubt, New Papers will slant an article to sale more papers. A few years ago, a Doctor was accused of pulling a gun in a clinic and waving it around. I knew this Doctor and talked to all the patients that where there and they all said it didn’t happen. What happened was, the so called owner (real owner is a convicted felon for Gun and Drug running and the clinic had to be in his sons name) owed this Doctor thousands of back pay and all the Doctor wanted to do is just get his stuff and leave. The Doctor had a Canceled Carry License and everyone knew it, It all was just a frame up!
All the overwhelming evidence pointing to clear the Doctor of all the charges and the criminal background of the real owner of the clinic was ignored by the News Paper but they ran it anyhow just to sale there paper!
Age of 12 I was outshooting alot of adults and my Fathers Carl Gustaf Stads Gevarsfaktori 6.5x55 Swedish I was swinning alot of Turkey Shoots with it!
At age 7, Dad gave me a Western Auto Supply 30-30 Revelation Model 200 and I still have and it’s in very good condition!
I fully disagree. If the kid can handle it then let em shoot. I shot my first .243 by the time I was 8 and although I was small and the scope busted my eye open, I fixed the problem and was shooting targets with a .243 and 20ga. by the time I was 9. I think a Judge is not needed on this kind of an issue. I feel its the parents place to say if its ok or not for the kid to shoot a gun. This just seems to me that its more and more gun restrictions that should have been a parents call. I think that shooting/hunting should be determined by whoever knows the child the best. If the dad or mom knows the kid cant handle the shot guns kick, dont let em shoot it. If they know the child can handle it than let the kid have his first shooting experience.
I believe that in no way, is it the courts right to make a decision like that. Unless the kid was doing "bad" things with the gun, it should not be up to the judge as to when the kid should be able to use a gun. That should all be decided by the parents. Perhaps the judge never was hugged enough when he was little... or he just does not understand hunting.
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That's crap - pure and simple.
Definitely sounds like it's none of my business. My son is 8. I'm teaching him to shoot. He doesn't own any of the firearms though, and doesn't have access to them except when I'm teaching him to shoot.
I agree with vtbluegrass, you would think the NRA would be more than happy to appeal this. Since when is it the states job to decide when my child is old enough to accompany me and let me supervise him shooting in a safe and responsible manner.
u gotta be kiddin me. thats the dumbest thing i ever heard this kids gotta miss shotin for 3 year because of 1 dumb parent and 1 dumb judge. this kid cant shoot a real gun subervised by his father but i bet his mother will probly let him play a video game were he shots people in the head
I do not think it is the courts place to make this decision. I believe that a parent is far more qualified to decide if their child is capable of safely handling a firearm. From reading the story I do not believe this had anything to do with the kid having a shotgun. This was more about a fight between two divorced people and the kid being caught in the middle. I do however believe that the father has no choice at this point but to comply with the order or risk losing his son. He should appeal this order and keep appealing it until the order is overturned.
Someone get this man a lawyer from the NRA and appeal. All we need is some judge making a precedent on what age a kid may handle a firearm.
Should he have supervision, hell yes.
Is this really about a shotgun or is it more about a pi$$ed off ex-wife who is trying to do anything to get back @ her ex-husband?
It may not be, but I've seen many examples of kids thrown under the bus just so Mom or Dad can exact some revenge.
Either way, this guy better do what the judge says or he'll lose his kid for years.
Jim
once again, a pretty crappy job by the reporter.
The reporter never described the circumstances under which this kid was allowed to "possess" the gun. Likely because the reporter assumes that anyone owning a gun at all is an "evil" act.
If the guy let a kid go running around with a gun, without any prior lessons or supervision, there is probably a case to be made for parental negligence.
-> Let the negative feedback for rational thought flow!
If the guy was supervising his kid or had given him prior lessons and deemed him responsible enough, then this is one of the stupidest, most reactionary, most overreaching court decisions I have ever heard of.
very well put, ke7cjw.
You took the words straight out of my mouth.
Nate
Definitely sounds like classic divorce infighting. The judge was way out of line on this one and doesn't seem very informed. Unsupervised access, no way, but under close and absolute supervision I don't see why it would be unduly dangerous. The child is probably at much greater risk driving in a car.
I plan on starting my son alot earlier than twelve but only with me observing and supervising every second. A child who knows how to handle firearms and understands the risks is much safer than one who doesn't.
This is a shame, and seemingly unconstitutional. Someone go and disbar this judge. Who the hell does he think he is? How the hell are kids supposed to learn to respect elders or authority figures with this kinda thing going on?
It's terrible when kids get caught up in this crap.
The ruling applies to the father...so could someone sponsor a hunting trip for this kid? He deserves it after this mess.
Ken I agree, most reporters have only one thought guns are bad if you own a gun or allow a child to shoot a gun then your bad. I wonder if they think if our Olympic shooters just picked up a gun the day of the event. I also dont agree with the judge I belive it should be my job to decide when my child participates in shooting sports, but I also dont know the circumstances of the divorce case. Like mentiond before could just be a pissed off ex.
I was shooting guns by age 9! This is rediculous! If there's no law concerning age to own a firearm, why does he have to wait! Judges are supposed to interpret the law, not make it, but unfortunately that is not true nowadays.
I remember back when I was stationed at Eielson AFB Alaska ready to head out to run the range for recreational shooting, My Daughter age 9 wanted to go and help, sure load up! While I was watching the line she asked if she can shoot my 22-250 I told her it was ok. She went back to the truck pulled the shooting mat and grabbed the ammo box and brought it to the line in front of the tower. Then she went back by herself and carefully pulled my Remington 700 BDL 22-250 from the ATV gun boot, pointed the rifle away in a safe direction, opened the bolt, looked and stuck her finger in the chamber then walked up to the firing line then carefully laid the rifle down pointing down range all text book perfect. After shooting a couple of rounds, this Major came bouncing up to me and demanded to know who in the hell is watching this kid and before I could respond just happen standing next to me was his Commander and boy did he let him have it. “That kid requires less Adult supervision than you do lieutenant!
My 9 year old Grandson Alex is safer and a better Sportsman than a lot of Adults I know!
I find those that say age 9 is too young, I find them in the dictionary between Ignorance and Stupidity!
The proper age of a person is based on, the desire to learn and second the mental capacity of the person! I’ve seen Adults to be the most and I’m going to leave it right there!
The ignorance to train a person with the desire to do something leads to dangerous and deadly consequences!
Any challengers?
BRING IT ON!!!!!!
that is just crap i am 15 i got to shoot when i was 11 i miss out on a lot i dont want others to miss out like i did.
One more thing,
I know beyond a reasonable doubt, New Papers will slant an article to sale more papers. A few years ago, a Doctor was accused of pulling a gun in a clinic and waving it around. I knew this Doctor and talked to all the patients that where there and they all said it didn’t happen. What happened was, the so called owner (real owner is a convicted felon for Gun and Drug running and the clinic had to be in his sons name) owed this Doctor thousands of back pay and all the Doctor wanted to do is just get his stuff and leave. The Doctor had a Canceled Carry License and everyone knew it, It all was just a frame up!
All the overwhelming evidence pointing to clear the Doctor of all the charges and the criminal background of the real owner of the clinic was ignored by the News Paper but they ran it anyhow just to sale there paper!
Age of 12 I was outshooting alot of adults and my Fathers Carl Gustaf Stads Gevarsfaktori 6.5x55 Swedish I was swinning alot of Turkey Shoots with it!
At age 7, Dad gave me a Western Auto Supply 30-30 Revelation Model 200 and I still have and it’s in very good condition!
I fully disagree. If the kid can handle it then let em shoot. I shot my first .243 by the time I was 8 and although I was small and the scope busted my eye open, I fixed the problem and was shooting targets with a .243 and 20ga. by the time I was 9. I think a Judge is not needed on this kind of an issue. I feel its the parents place to say if its ok or not for the kid to shoot a gun. This just seems to me that its more and more gun restrictions that should have been a parents call. I think that shooting/hunting should be determined by whoever knows the child the best. If the dad or mom knows the kid cant handle the shot guns kick, dont let em shoot it. If they know the child can handle it than let the kid have his first shooting experience.
I believe that in no way, is it the courts right to make a decision like that. Unless the kid was doing "bad" things with the gun, it should not be up to the judge as to when the kid should be able to use a gun. That should all be decided by the parents. Perhaps the judge never was hugged enough when he was little... or he just does not understand hunting.
Comply, period. What does the guy think he is really teaching his kid? If the judge says 9 is too young and you don't, appeal it, but meanwhile comply or loose your son, period.
I agree with the judge. He is to little yet. Maybe you can introduce him to a .22 it is smaller. I didn't get my first shotgun until I was 10 or 11.
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