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Discussion Topic: National Carry Reciprocity Measure Fails

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July 24, 2009

Discussion Topic: National Carry Reciprocity Measure Fails

By Dave Hurteau

It was damn near thing, pointing to a significant shift among moderate Democrats on gun control. The vote split the democratic leadership, with Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) supporting the measure.

From the Washington Post:

By the narrowest of margins, the Senate's liberal bloc of Democrats defeated an amendment that would have allowed gun owners to carry their weapons across state lines without regard for stricter laws in many jurisdictions, giving preference to states with looser standards. . . .

Even in defeat, the debate demonstrated the continued power of the National Rifle Association and gun rights advocates in Congress, because the Thune amendment was considered the most far reaching federal effort ever proposed to expand laws to allow weapons ownership.

Be sure to read the full article and tell us your reaction.

 

Comments (17)

Top Rated
All Comments
from Bella wrote 2 years 43 weeks ago

Speaking as one who resides in Liberal Masterbachusetts, which has reciprocal standards with nobody, we need consistent National standards for concealed carry (or transport of any firearms at all). In general I usually suggest my outastate friends only bring Black powder arms to my shooting events, because for some reason such guns are not considered "firearms".
I only needed one occasion where Officer Friendly required me to vouch for a (from NY) buddy or he was gonna drag him away (over a handgun). Your Papers, Please!

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from jcarlin wrote 2 years 43 weeks ago

It's the constitution.
We may not like that some voters will vote against what we believe, but society wouldn't think about taking away their vote.
The words of some being freely spoken, if delivered convincingly enough, are more dangerous to our freedoms than firearms are, but we protect free speech as well.

I thought the story was relatively neutral. I dislike that it's nearly always presented that the NRA specifically put forth a nefarious bill that loosens control. The challenge is generally whether those controls are legal in the first place. The bill essentially affirms our constitutional rights. I'm a member, but I suspect public sentiment, as sometimes reflected by the NRA, is a bigger motivator than the lobbyist themselve.
If you want to see an example of my peace of mind being destroyed by another's constitutional rights, read the comments posted to the WP article. My blood pressure is still up. I don't understand why so many believe that giving up your rights is a form of liberal empowerment. One poster referred to the gun rights crowd as sheep! Sheep? I suspect the majority are more properly characterized as the faithful dogs that protect these "enlightened" folk from the wolves that most of them mistakenly think we are.
I would have thought those who flock together in a defenseless mass hoping that some authority will come to their rescue when they start bleating would be the sheep in this analogy.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 2 years 43 weeks ago

Let's get some firearms rights ammendments tacked on to the next Stimulaugh Package or Socialized Healthcare bill!

It would make things easier to stomach, at least for a day or two....

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Mark-1 wrote 2 years 43 weeks ago

Congress blew a chance to straighten out some of the confusion of competing state handgun laws and regs. The Fed's really should be the governing agency and authrority in this area. The switching of votes on this amendment shows how sniveling and chickensh*t some of those Senators are.

Other: I was dismayed at the Media's crowing over the failure of the amendment's passage. If the amendment was entered as a separate bill it would have passed. The fact those passing votes are still there must have the anti-gunners passing bricks.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from ranger2 wrote 2 years 43 weeks ago

It is unfortunate that this was shot down. I think that there are other ways around it, but that would require a state to state battle. Take Idaho, for example. They will recognize a concealed carry liscence from any other state, but few return the favor. If there was a movement amongst states to offer reciprocity, then there would be no need to have a federal legislation... but it would be better to have one anyways.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from seadog wrote 2 years 43 weeks ago

I knew this was too good to be true.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from ggmack wrote 2 years 43 weeks ago

that sucks was really rooting for that. I have family in several states that are pretty tight on their laws. MD, PA VA, WV. WV is not bad but getting there is rough.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from ejunk wrote 2 years 43 weeks ago

I'm not a lawyer, but this law seems like it could have possibly infringed upon the rights of states to make their own laws on the subject.

yrs-
Evan!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from salmonquest wrote 2 years 43 weeks ago

the problem with a being consistent across the nation is we may end up with nationally strict control. I'm disapointed this didn't pass

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from bluecollarkid wrote 2 years 43 weeks ago

ggmack,

I have to disagree with you about the states that have tough carry laws. MD is tough, being a "may issue" state and dem on top of that but PA, VA, and WV are light-years away from MD in terms of "toughness." Plus, I know for sure that PA and VA have generous open-carry laws.

While I'm here, I might as well weigh in. IMO, this bill failing is both good and bad. Its good because Congress makes too many laws as it is and this law did infringe upon state sovereignty -- abridging the principles of our founding fathers. It's bad because we still have states out there (most of the NE, MD, DC [although not a state], CA, etc) that have either no "right to carry concealed" or have severely limited it so that only rich, famous, and/or powerful people may receive a permit. These states do not recognize a person's right to self-defense and take the position that it's the polices'/politicians' job to protect the citizenry. However, if the citizens of those states wanted the right to carry, they would vote politicians in that would permit it.

The better route is to let states decide and if you can't carry in others, then don't visit them. Vote with your feet and pocketbook and spend your money, invest, vacation, etc. somewhere else.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Jim in Mo wrote 2 years 43 weeks ago

Bella has it right!
I knew it would fail.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from fflutterffly wrote 2 years 43 weeks ago

How do you recognize a "responsible" gun owner? Is it someone who belongs to the NRA? A person of only one color? A group of people marching around in a field leaning on the rights of the constitution to keep arms? Gang members who have same rights? I enjoy guns, hunting, fishing... but I hate crime by guns, children finding hidden guns and shooting a sibling or criminals who transport guns across lines, kill police officers, threaten others. How about automatic rifles? We all have to come to a sensible regulation of firearms that includes transportation of guns. Bravado has little to do with safety or rights. Educate and resolve.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from peter wrote 2 years 43 weeks ago

well im glad cause guns jump out off peoples hands and shoot people without touching the triggers.thats way all guns should be locked in a room because we dont know whats best for us.everbody should just be wrapped in bubblewrap and wear helmets constantly

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from buckslayer7893 wrote 2 years 43 weeks ago

what about here in wisconsin, we cant even concealed carry at all, but at least we can open carry. still gives us a little bit of our right, even though it is so shredded.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Kennyii wrote 2 years 43 weeks ago

Immediately after the measure failed in the Senate, I wrote a letter to Sherrod Brown, my local senator. Two days later he responded with an e-mail that had me seeing red. His response was "I have supported measures in the past that would allow former police officers to carry concealed weapons, however I have serious reservations about allowing everyday citizens the same right." After reading that I responded with an oath that I would not rest until SW Ohio had a new Senator who wasn't such a jack ass.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from 007 wrote 2 years 43 weeks ago

Find out how your senator voted and proceed accordingly. That fool Rockefeller (WV) has never met a gun control measure that he didn't like, much like Byrd. I look forward to the day that we're rid of both of them from that standpoint.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from FloridaHunter1226 wrote 2 years 43 weeks ago

It is really nice to hear that we are actually making progress.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report

Post a Comment

from Bella wrote 2 years 43 weeks ago

Speaking as one who resides in Liberal Masterbachusetts, which has reciprocal standards with nobody, we need consistent National standards for concealed carry (or transport of any firearms at all). In general I usually suggest my outastate friends only bring Black powder arms to my shooting events, because for some reason such guns are not considered "firearms".
I only needed one occasion where Officer Friendly required me to vouch for a (from NY) buddy or he was gonna drag him away (over a handgun). Your Papers, Please!

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from jcarlin wrote 2 years 43 weeks ago

It's the constitution.
We may not like that some voters will vote against what we believe, but society wouldn't think about taking away their vote.
The words of some being freely spoken, if delivered convincingly enough, are more dangerous to our freedoms than firearms are, but we protect free speech as well.

I thought the story was relatively neutral. I dislike that it's nearly always presented that the NRA specifically put forth a nefarious bill that loosens control. The challenge is generally whether those controls are legal in the first place. The bill essentially affirms our constitutional rights. I'm a member, but I suspect public sentiment, as sometimes reflected by the NRA, is a bigger motivator than the lobbyist themselve.
If you want to see an example of my peace of mind being destroyed by another's constitutional rights, read the comments posted to the WP article. My blood pressure is still up. I don't understand why so many believe that giving up your rights is a form of liberal empowerment. One poster referred to the gun rights crowd as sheep! Sheep? I suspect the majority are more properly characterized as the faithful dogs that protect these "enlightened" folk from the wolves that most of them mistakenly think we are.
I would have thought those who flock together in a defenseless mass hoping that some authority will come to their rescue when they start bleating would be the sheep in this analogy.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 2 years 43 weeks ago

Let's get some firearms rights ammendments tacked on to the next Stimulaugh Package or Socialized Healthcare bill!

It would make things easier to stomach, at least for a day or two....

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Mark-1 wrote 2 years 43 weeks ago

Congress blew a chance to straighten out some of the confusion of competing state handgun laws and regs. The Fed's really should be the governing agency and authrority in this area. The switching of votes on this amendment shows how sniveling and chickensh*t some of those Senators are.

Other: I was dismayed at the Media's crowing over the failure of the amendment's passage. If the amendment was entered as a separate bill it would have passed. The fact those passing votes are still there must have the anti-gunners passing bricks.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from ranger2 wrote 2 years 43 weeks ago

It is unfortunate that this was shot down. I think that there are other ways around it, but that would require a state to state battle. Take Idaho, for example. They will recognize a concealed carry liscence from any other state, but few return the favor. If there was a movement amongst states to offer reciprocity, then there would be no need to have a federal legislation... but it would be better to have one anyways.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from seadog wrote 2 years 43 weeks ago

I knew this was too good to be true.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from ggmack wrote 2 years 43 weeks ago

that sucks was really rooting for that. I have family in several states that are pretty tight on their laws. MD, PA VA, WV. WV is not bad but getting there is rough.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from ejunk wrote 2 years 43 weeks ago

I'm not a lawyer, but this law seems like it could have possibly infringed upon the rights of states to make their own laws on the subject.

yrs-
Evan!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from salmonquest wrote 2 years 43 weeks ago

the problem with a being consistent across the nation is we may end up with nationally strict control. I'm disapointed this didn't pass

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from bluecollarkid wrote 2 years 43 weeks ago

ggmack,

I have to disagree with you about the states that have tough carry laws. MD is tough, being a "may issue" state and dem on top of that but PA, VA, and WV are light-years away from MD in terms of "toughness." Plus, I know for sure that PA and VA have generous open-carry laws.

While I'm here, I might as well weigh in. IMO, this bill failing is both good and bad. Its good because Congress makes too many laws as it is and this law did infringe upon state sovereignty -- abridging the principles of our founding fathers. It's bad because we still have states out there (most of the NE, MD, DC [although not a state], CA, etc) that have either no "right to carry concealed" or have severely limited it so that only rich, famous, and/or powerful people may receive a permit. These states do not recognize a person's right to self-defense and take the position that it's the polices'/politicians' job to protect the citizenry. However, if the citizens of those states wanted the right to carry, they would vote politicians in that would permit it.

The better route is to let states decide and if you can't carry in others, then don't visit them. Vote with your feet and pocketbook and spend your money, invest, vacation, etc. somewhere else.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Jim in Mo wrote 2 years 43 weeks ago

Bella has it right!
I knew it would fail.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from peter wrote 2 years 43 weeks ago

well im glad cause guns jump out off peoples hands and shoot people without touching the triggers.thats way all guns should be locked in a room because we dont know whats best for us.everbody should just be wrapped in bubblewrap and wear helmets constantly

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from buckslayer7893 wrote 2 years 43 weeks ago

what about here in wisconsin, we cant even concealed carry at all, but at least we can open carry. still gives us a little bit of our right, even though it is so shredded.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Kennyii wrote 2 years 43 weeks ago

Immediately after the measure failed in the Senate, I wrote a letter to Sherrod Brown, my local senator. Two days later he responded with an e-mail that had me seeing red. His response was "I have supported measures in the past that would allow former police officers to carry concealed weapons, however I have serious reservations about allowing everyday citizens the same right." After reading that I responded with an oath that I would not rest until SW Ohio had a new Senator who wasn't such a jack ass.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from 007 wrote 2 years 43 weeks ago

Find out how your senator voted and proceed accordingly. That fool Rockefeller (WV) has never met a gun control measure that he didn't like, much like Byrd. I look forward to the day that we're rid of both of them from that standpoint.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from FloridaHunter1226 wrote 2 years 43 weeks ago

It is really nice to hear that we are actually making progress.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from fflutterffly wrote 2 years 43 weeks ago

How do you recognize a "responsible" gun owner? Is it someone who belongs to the NRA? A person of only one color? A group of people marching around in a field leaning on the rights of the constitution to keep arms? Gang members who have same rights? I enjoy guns, hunting, fishing... but I hate crime by guns, children finding hidden guns and shooting a sibling or criminals who transport guns across lines, kill police officers, threaten others. How about automatic rifles? We all have to come to a sensible regulation of firearms that includes transportation of guns. Bravado has little to do with safety or rights. Educate and resolve.

0 Good Comment? | | Report

Post a Comment