


August 10, 2009
Chad Love: How Bad is DEET?
By Cathy & Berry Beck
There probably isn't anyone reading this blog who, when blindfolded, couldn't recognize the following scents: Hoppe's #9 (naturally), burnt gunpowder, the original Fish Formula, wet dog and, of course, OFF.
Virtually everyone grew up soaked in the stuff. It's as much a part of the childhood outdoors experience as hissing lanterns, blackened marshmallows, and sunfish. But in recent years there have been persistent questions about the safety of DEET, and as with so many other formerly-benign childhood icons, many people have begun limiting its use, especially on children.
The findings of the latest study to weigh in on DEET were published just last week.
From the story:
ScienceDaily (Aug. 6, 2009) — The active ingredient in many insect repellents, deet, has been found to be toxic to the central nervous system. Researchers say that more investigations are urgently needed to confirm or dismiss any potential neurotoxicity to humans, especially when deet-based repellents are used in combination with other neurotoxic insecticides.
And hot on the heels of that report were rebuttals from industry websites such as this one issued from deetonline.org:
"Reports of a French study to examine the effects of DEET on the nervous system of insects has little relevance for the widely used repellent ingredient’s effects on humans, according to independent scientific experts, including those at the U.S. National Pesticide Information Center,” said Susan Little, director of the DEET Education Program, Washington, D.C. To suggest that DEET is unsafe when used according to label instructions is irresponsible, she noted, especially since the study in no way reflects the way that consumers use insect repellents that contain it. Experts cited by the BBC and other news organizations agree. “The experiments that were conducted were mainly done on insects or on individual cells in test tubes, and generally not under conditions that accurately reflect how DEET is used as an insect repellent in the real world,” said Daniel Sudakin, M.D., M.P.H., with the U.S. National Pesticide Information Center, in a BBC News story. Dr. Sudakin is a widely published medical toxicologist and co-director of Integrative Health Science Facility Core at Oregon State University. “This makes it very difficult if not impossible to interpret the relevance of their findings to humans,” he said.
As always, consumers are left to sift through the rhetoric, scratch their heads and make a choice as to whom to believe.
Here are my questions: have you reduced your use of DEET-based repellents, especially with children? If so, what are some of your favorite homemade alternatives?
Comments (38)
I figure it has to have some effect on us. How much, though, who knows. I try to use Permethrin on my fishing and hunting clothes and as little DEET as possible on anything exposed.
I sometimes use a Thermocell in camp - but breathing that stuff can't be the best either. Someone told me to use a dryer sheet - not sure if that actually works. More chemicals. We're full of them.
I wonder if we build up some immunity to skeeter bites - seems the first one of the year is always the worst. But black and deer flies ... few things are worse.
The active ingredient in many insect repellents, deet, has been found to be toxic to the central nervous system?
O’really!
Even back in the 80’s, those of us in the Military always said it’s a byproduct of a nerve agent!
Cutters I find works fantastic and BENS 100 is for those who have no clue what they’re doing yet alone should be allowed out of the bedroom, LOL! BENS 100 you apply with your hand then you touch your sunglasses leaving a melted plastic finger print and then later on you rub your eyes and it burns like hell!! I flat out don’t like the stuff!
Now take Permethrin O'I really love this stuff I do, if it crawls it dies! My Brother spayed himself down from head to toe after he got into the middle of a bunch of seed ticks and he discovered they died upon contact with the stuff! Not to be used on the skin because of its toxicity but people do it anyhow!
Ivory soap works great!
Hey Chad
Long overdue to bring this subject up, glad you did!!!
Can I use this as an excuse when I shoot poorly? "Sorry, can't hold my groups, CNS damage!"
Avon Skin so Soft bath oil really does work. BUT, you have to put it on by putting a cap full in a tub of water and bathing in it. The effect lasts for a couple days. I find that if I just take it and rub it on somehow a few ticks still seem to make it on to my hide. Guess the bath covers every inch. Never tried it in Alaska. Those Alaskan mosquitos are special. Probably would eat the stuff.
Prolonged use of DEET takes the skin off my neck at the same time taking the finish off the dashboard of a safari vehicle, so it can't be too healthy . However, it will somewhat keep tsetse fly away (although some fly appear to treat it like catsup).
Shared a Central African Republic camp with a beautiful young French lady, a Phd counting animals for the government. She had never been in the bush before, but gave me a lecture regarding the evils of DEET while espousing a concoction based on herbs and potions. Within two days she was willing to give up... well almost anything for some of my horrible Ultrathon which contains 33% DEET (way overkill!) but also has a controlled polymer which is supposed to to retard skin absorption of DEET reducing toxicity.
This witches brew is probably bad for for you,but when tsetse fly are bad you will sell your soul to the devil for even a little help.
After a particularly heavy year of DEET usage, my DEET-loving brother-in-law started showing signs of ALS (Lou Gherig's disease) including uncontrollable tremors, muscle twitching and muscle weakness. After nearly a year of inconclusive tests in which the symptoms kept getting worse, he saw a specialist who finally diagnosed him with DEET poisoning. He stopped using DEET completely and the symptoms started to subside over a couple-months span.
I still use DEET, but try to keep coverage light and avoid the mouth and nose.
I'm addicted to DEET but I'm trying to cut down. I use the Thermocell like a nicotine patch but sometimes I still light up with DEET. There are places in Florida at certain times of the year where even DEET isn't enough.
Having just returned from Canada on Saturday after a week of fishing, it was safe to say that DEET was nearly mandatory. The mosquitos were thick but Repel 100 sure knocks the snot out of them. Luckly, it was cold enough that you could comfortably wear long pants and button up shirts, but the hands and face still needed to be rubbed down with DEET. Now back at home we are in a drought so the mosquitos are nearly none existant and I have had no use for bug spray. I have been a firm believer that if you are going to use bug spray it may as well be good so you don't have to reapply it. I may use 98%+ DEET but not often enough to make me worry about it.
I've been using Deet products for at least 35 years. I don't know the effect on my body. I do know that it will destroy Suunto and Silva compasses, both see through and mirror type. Also, it will dissolve any type of plastic. I switched to the 15 per cent OFF aerosol with the orange cap. It works great.
You really dont need to use 100% DEET. That stuff is for serious places like the everglades and africa. Normally, 15-30% DEET is plenty.
Another cool fact about DEET is that is absorbs directly into the skin and subsequently the blood stream!!! Cool, huh?
In case people don't know, DEET does attack fishing line. Not sure about synthetic and "painted" stocks.
I have cut back on these kinds of products on myself because i never liked the smell, especially if i'm hunting. I do not put them on my kids because i'm cautious and don't want to harm them in any way. Avon SkinSoSoft is effective, and i will use it on my kids, but i do not care for that smell either and will deal with the bugs instead. I do use a duranon based repellant(for chiggers)that is most likely harmful in excess, but if you've ever had chiggers, you'd use it. Besides it may be healthier than the other remedies for chiggers. Gasoline or Clorox.
i hate bugs
This explains a lot for me. Damn 70's
I spray it on my clothes and never my skin.
I'm a firm believer in heavy flannel and jeans no matter how hot it is. Headnet if it's too bad.
I don't care for any chemical on my skin.
Steve182- Octagon soap works well for chigger relief for me, not prevention mind you. Most pharmacies don't stock it but will order it for you. Cost less than a dollar a bar. To be clear the soap is called Octagon but is normal bar soap shaped. The lack of that little bit of information led me to believe my uncle was slam loosing his mind.
As for DEET I don't use it much any more because of the Thermacell which I am sure some study will find causes boils and plague in 10 years. Other than that I try to wear cloths to cover up. Physical barriers are way more effective than any chemical. Also while working in the swamps of South Carolina one summer Repel about ate the skin off my neck and arms. But hey its better than bird flu, I guess.
i was deployed in a location for 7 months, 4 of which i used deet,heavily, i was so sick at the end of that 4rth month that i could barely move around, i was told it was just the flu, to its a food allergy of some kind. i finally solved it when the symtoms would peak after each spraying of deet. so i stopped, just delt with the bugs, when my command wanted to spray our uniforms with a mixture of 100%deet and some other chemical they wouldnt name ,i put my foot down. to this day i still get sick whenever i get in contact with deet , even though i never did before that deployment....
I don't know how bad it really is - it works for me! Maybe it is just something with French people.....? Weird
I use deet, but not all the time. Mosquito bite and west nile, or deet and exposure to chemicals? Sounds like a lose lose situation to me. I guess I will chance the chemicals and not be bothered by bugs.
I dislike the feel of DEET on my skin. I look for products that contain lemongrass oil and geraniol, these work quite well without that skincrawling feeling I get from Deet.
My yard has lemongrass growing in it all around the house. Lemongrass aka citronella is a natural deterent for mosquitoes. I haven't had any mosquito bites from around my house (and I have a small pond in my back yard)other than that I don't normally use any repellant. There are certain foods that you can eat prior to an outdoor event that will naturally repel mosquitoes (unfortunately I am having a brain fart and can't remember right now). As for chiggars clear finger nail polish is a very effective treatment for them.
DEET is a very low grade chemical warfare nerve agent!
i use repellant with deet usually 100% for deer ticks in hunting so far no effects but if i do ill post
Of course DEET is a neuro-toxin! That's what kills the little suckers!
Spray permethian on the clothes and let it dry completely before wearing, then a very LIGHT coat of DEET for the exposed skin. Not the 100% stuff, the lowest you can find.
As with all chemicals, the dose makes the poison. Some folks will get sensitized to DEET and will never be able to wear it again.
Damm, I thought it was all that "Partying" in the 80's that was causing all my "Problems" but now I can blame DEET!.
Hey muddog, for me it was the 70's but now I've got a new excuse.
When they first released DEET in the 100% concentration, I used it religiously. Hunting in the early seasons in NC, you have to have something to sit in a treestand, or you'll go bonkers.
After a few weeks of the season (I hunted almost every day), I realized that I'd come home from a hunt with a mild nausea and extreme irritability. It took me a while after the weather cooled and the bugs went away to realize that it was my body's response to DEET. As soon as I quit using it, the symptoms went away.
I mostly use Therma-Cell now. I agree with the previous poster that I get a little nervous breathing that stuff, but at least I'm not noticing any ill effects and it DEFINITELY keeps the skeeters and biting flies away.
Well, since "Deet" is my nickname... I can assure you that "Deet" is very, very bad. As for the bug dope... I consider it a weapon of last resort, but when I am at that "last resort" stage... I never hesitate to use it. Del is right-on re. the Skin So Soft, and there are many other options. Living at 8500 feet in Colorado, we don't get many mosquitoes... but that makes it so that when I go to buggy places (Bolivia, the Everglades, Alaska) I have no resistance nor tolerance. I drop the DEET-bomb every time.
If you are worried about bugs, DEET works, but tell me what is manufactured by man that does not cause cancer...seriously, you guys sound like a bunch of pansies. Grow some guts, get out in the woods, and enjoy ALL of nature. I've found if I only worry about what goes in my mouth, nose, ears, and eyes, I worry less, and the bugs seem less bothersome.
I haven't used it in years, but I remember it made my skin feel hot, never liked that! I guess it can't be good for you except that you get bit less, and avoid all sorts of illnesses. Like anything else moderation is the key.
My family has used Absorbine Jr. for years. Just dab a little here and there on your exposed skin. It is especially effective while fishing around ponds where buffalo gnats are a problem.
i do use deet but sparingly. I will try some of the products listed here. thanks for the suggestions.
When we used to do a lot of nighttime froggin Off was all we had and we usually got ate up by mosquitos but then they came out with Deep Woods Off with deet I believe. In any case it really helped.
Use Deet every night? Hell no. Moderation as they say.
In summer, I bathe in the lake 4 or 5 times per day with Ivory soap to keep the bugs away.
I just carry around my Thermacell and I do not even have to worry about bringing any repellants. I was a little skeptical at first but man does that things work. Especially hog hunting in a stand in the middle of the swamp, saves me from being attacked by all those mosquitoes.
As a floodplain scientist I spend more time in the Louisiana swamps than all but the most avid swamp dwellers. If I need a repellent I use the Off naturals Lemon Eucalyptus oil, which works very well. But don't get it in your eyes it hurts bad. But when most people are crying about the bugs, I usually don't even notice it.
I have used sprays containing deet for years. I don't use it often, I do n ot like to use it but I do notice a considerable difference when I do not use it or I use something that does not conatain DEET. The bigest problem I run into is chiggers and ticks. I will have to try the permethrin spray next time I come across it.
I have seen your comments for Avon skin so soft and wanted and I wanted to let you know I am an Avon rep and have a GREAT DEAL on it right now. I have the extra large 24 Oz bottle for only $11. It is usually $17. I can ship it to you for whatever the cost is to me. Let me know if you want some!!!
Yes Deet dissolves plastic and quickly fades away the beautiful curves of a playmate. But then: the human body is neither composed of plastic or printing ink. I think that sensibly used in diluted form (10 - 20%)Deet gives us pleasant evenings outdoors, fishing and talking with friends and family. Especially in Sweden and in Finland the alternative is locking yourself up after 6 pm or so.
Gerard Lammers, The Netherlands
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Can I use this as an excuse when I shoot poorly? "Sorry, can't hold my groups, CNS damage!"
Avon Skin so Soft bath oil really does work. BUT, you have to put it on by putting a cap full in a tub of water and bathing in it. The effect lasts for a couple days. I find that if I just take it and rub it on somehow a few ticks still seem to make it on to my hide. Guess the bath covers every inch. Never tried it in Alaska. Those Alaskan mosquitos are special. Probably would eat the stuff.
Prolonged use of DEET takes the skin off my neck at the same time taking the finish off the dashboard of a safari vehicle, so it can't be too healthy . However, it will somewhat keep tsetse fly away (although some fly appear to treat it like catsup).
Shared a Central African Republic camp with a beautiful young French lady, a Phd counting animals for the government. She had never been in the bush before, but gave me a lecture regarding the evils of DEET while espousing a concoction based on herbs and potions. Within two days she was willing to give up... well almost anything for some of my horrible Ultrathon which contains 33% DEET (way overkill!) but also has a controlled polymer which is supposed to to retard skin absorption of DEET reducing toxicity.
This witches brew is probably bad for for you,but when tsetse fly are bad you will sell your soul to the devil for even a little help.
I'm addicted to DEET but I'm trying to cut down. I use the Thermocell like a nicotine patch but sometimes I still light up with DEET. There are places in Florida at certain times of the year where even DEET isn't enough.
I spray it on my clothes and never my skin.
I'm a firm believer in heavy flannel and jeans no matter how hot it is. Headnet if it's too bad.
I don't care for any chemical on my skin.
Ivory soap works great!
Hey Chad
Long overdue to bring this subject up, glad you did!!!
After a particularly heavy year of DEET usage, my DEET-loving brother-in-law started showing signs of ALS (Lou Gherig's disease) including uncontrollable tremors, muscle twitching and muscle weakness. After nearly a year of inconclusive tests in which the symptoms kept getting worse, he saw a specialist who finally diagnosed him with DEET poisoning. He stopped using DEET completely and the symptoms started to subside over a couple-months span.
I still use DEET, but try to keep coverage light and avoid the mouth and nose.
Having just returned from Canada on Saturday after a week of fishing, it was safe to say that DEET was nearly mandatory. The mosquitos were thick but Repel 100 sure knocks the snot out of them. Luckly, it was cold enough that you could comfortably wear long pants and button up shirts, but the hands and face still needed to be rubbed down with DEET. Now back at home we are in a drought so the mosquitos are nearly none existant and I have had no use for bug spray. I have been a firm believer that if you are going to use bug spray it may as well be good so you don't have to reapply it. I may use 98%+ DEET but not often enough to make me worry about it.
I've been using Deet products for at least 35 years. I don't know the effect on my body. I do know that it will destroy Suunto and Silva compasses, both see through and mirror type. Also, it will dissolve any type of plastic. I switched to the 15 per cent OFF aerosol with the orange cap. It works great.
You really dont need to use 100% DEET. That stuff is for serious places like the everglades and africa. Normally, 15-30% DEET is plenty.
Another cool fact about DEET is that is absorbs directly into the skin and subsequently the blood stream!!! Cool, huh?
In case people don't know, DEET does attack fishing line. Not sure about synthetic and "painted" stocks.
I have cut back on these kinds of products on myself because i never liked the smell, especially if i'm hunting. I do not put them on my kids because i'm cautious and don't want to harm them in any way. Avon SkinSoSoft is effective, and i will use it on my kids, but i do not care for that smell either and will deal with the bugs instead. I do use a duranon based repellant(for chiggers)that is most likely harmful in excess, but if you've ever had chiggers, you'd use it. Besides it may be healthier than the other remedies for chiggers. Gasoline or Clorox.
i hate bugs
I dislike the feel of DEET on my skin. I look for products that contain lemongrass oil and geraniol, these work quite well without that skincrawling feeling I get from Deet.
Damm, I thought it was all that "Partying" in the 80's that was causing all my "Problems" but now I can blame DEET!.
Well, since "Deet" is my nickname... I can assure you that "Deet" is very, very bad. As for the bug dope... I consider it a weapon of last resort, but when I am at that "last resort" stage... I never hesitate to use it. Del is right-on re. the Skin So Soft, and there are many other options. Living at 8500 feet in Colorado, we don't get many mosquitoes... but that makes it so that when I go to buggy places (Bolivia, the Everglades, Alaska) I have no resistance nor tolerance. I drop the DEET-bomb every time.
If you are worried about bugs, DEET works, but tell me what is manufactured by man that does not cause cancer...seriously, you guys sound like a bunch of pansies. Grow some guts, get out in the woods, and enjoy ALL of nature. I've found if I only worry about what goes in my mouth, nose, ears, and eyes, I worry less, and the bugs seem less bothersome.
I figure it has to have some effect on us. How much, though, who knows. I try to use Permethrin on my fishing and hunting clothes and as little DEET as possible on anything exposed.
I sometimes use a Thermocell in camp - but breathing that stuff can't be the best either. Someone told me to use a dryer sheet - not sure if that actually works. More chemicals. We're full of them.
I wonder if we build up some immunity to skeeter bites - seems the first one of the year is always the worst. But black and deer flies ... few things are worse.
The active ingredient in many insect repellents, deet, has been found to be toxic to the central nervous system?
O’really!
Even back in the 80’s, those of us in the Military always said it’s a byproduct of a nerve agent!
Cutters I find works fantastic and BENS 100 is for those who have no clue what they’re doing yet alone should be allowed out of the bedroom, LOL! BENS 100 you apply with your hand then you touch your sunglasses leaving a melted plastic finger print and then later on you rub your eyes and it burns like hell!! I flat out don’t like the stuff!
Now take Permethrin O'I really love this stuff I do, if it crawls it dies! My Brother spayed himself down from head to toe after he got into the middle of a bunch of seed ticks and he discovered they died upon contact with the stuff! Not to be used on the skin because of its toxicity but people do it anyhow!
This explains a lot for me. Damn 70's
Steve182- Octagon soap works well for chigger relief for me, not prevention mind you. Most pharmacies don't stock it but will order it for you. Cost less than a dollar a bar. To be clear the soap is called Octagon but is normal bar soap shaped. The lack of that little bit of information led me to believe my uncle was slam loosing his mind.
As for DEET I don't use it much any more because of the Thermacell which I am sure some study will find causes boils and plague in 10 years. Other than that I try to wear cloths to cover up. Physical barriers are way more effective than any chemical. Also while working in the swamps of South Carolina one summer Repel about ate the skin off my neck and arms. But hey its better than bird flu, I guess.
i was deployed in a location for 7 months, 4 of which i used deet,heavily, i was so sick at the end of that 4rth month that i could barely move around, i was told it was just the flu, to its a food allergy of some kind. i finally solved it when the symtoms would peak after each spraying of deet. so i stopped, just delt with the bugs, when my command wanted to spray our uniforms with a mixture of 100%deet and some other chemical they wouldnt name ,i put my foot down. to this day i still get sick whenever i get in contact with deet , even though i never did before that deployment....
I don't know how bad it really is - it works for me! Maybe it is just something with French people.....? Weird
I use deet, but not all the time. Mosquito bite and west nile, or deet and exposure to chemicals? Sounds like a lose lose situation to me. I guess I will chance the chemicals and not be bothered by bugs.
My yard has lemongrass growing in it all around the house. Lemongrass aka citronella is a natural deterent for mosquitoes. I haven't had any mosquito bites from around my house (and I have a small pond in my back yard)other than that I don't normally use any repellant. There are certain foods that you can eat prior to an outdoor event that will naturally repel mosquitoes (unfortunately I am having a brain fart and can't remember right now). As for chiggars clear finger nail polish is a very effective treatment for them.
DEET is a very low grade chemical warfare nerve agent!
Of course DEET is a neuro-toxin! That's what kills the little suckers!
Spray permethian on the clothes and let it dry completely before wearing, then a very LIGHT coat of DEET for the exposed skin. Not the 100% stuff, the lowest you can find.
As with all chemicals, the dose makes the poison. Some folks will get sensitized to DEET and will never be able to wear it again.
Hey muddog, for me it was the 70's but now I've got a new excuse.
When they first released DEET in the 100% concentration, I used it religiously. Hunting in the early seasons in NC, you have to have something to sit in a treestand, or you'll go bonkers.
After a few weeks of the season (I hunted almost every day), I realized that I'd come home from a hunt with a mild nausea and extreme irritability. It took me a while after the weather cooled and the bugs went away to realize that it was my body's response to DEET. As soon as I quit using it, the symptoms went away.
I mostly use Therma-Cell now. I agree with the previous poster that I get a little nervous breathing that stuff, but at least I'm not noticing any ill effects and it DEFINITELY keeps the skeeters and biting flies away.
I haven't used it in years, but I remember it made my skin feel hot, never liked that! I guess it can't be good for you except that you get bit less, and avoid all sorts of illnesses. Like anything else moderation is the key.
My family has used Absorbine Jr. for years. Just dab a little here and there on your exposed skin. It is especially effective while fishing around ponds where buffalo gnats are a problem.
i do use deet but sparingly. I will try some of the products listed here. thanks for the suggestions.
When we used to do a lot of nighttime froggin Off was all we had and we usually got ate up by mosquitos but then they came out with Deep Woods Off with deet I believe. In any case it really helped.
Use Deet every night? Hell no. Moderation as they say.
In summer, I bathe in the lake 4 or 5 times per day with Ivory soap to keep the bugs away.
I just carry around my Thermacell and I do not even have to worry about bringing any repellants. I was a little skeptical at first but man does that things work. Especially hog hunting in a stand in the middle of the swamp, saves me from being attacked by all those mosquitoes.
As a floodplain scientist I spend more time in the Louisiana swamps than all but the most avid swamp dwellers. If I need a repellent I use the Off naturals Lemon Eucalyptus oil, which works very well. But don't get it in your eyes it hurts bad. But when most people are crying about the bugs, I usually don't even notice it.
I have used sprays containing deet for years. I don't use it often, I do n ot like to use it but I do notice a considerable difference when I do not use it or I use something that does not conatain DEET. The bigest problem I run into is chiggers and ticks. I will have to try the permethrin spray next time I come across it.
I have seen your comments for Avon skin so soft and wanted and I wanted to let you know I am an Avon rep and have a GREAT DEAL on it right now. I have the extra large 24 Oz bottle for only $11. It is usually $17. I can ship it to you for whatever the cost is to me. Let me know if you want some!!!
Yes Deet dissolves plastic and quickly fades away the beautiful curves of a playmate. But then: the human body is neither composed of plastic or printing ink. I think that sensibly used in diluted form (10 - 20%)Deet gives us pleasant evenings outdoors, fishing and talking with friends and family. Especially in Sweden and in Finland the alternative is locking yourself up after 6 pm or so.
Gerard Lammers, The Netherlands
i use repellant with deet usually 100% for deer ticks in hunting so far no effects but if i do ill post
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