I have always pondered the same question. It seems that there are always advancements in technology associated with compound bows. Not the usually the case with recurves and certainly not with longbows as far as I am aware. Yet as Phil so astutely pointed out it appears that the fellows who cling to their antique two yer old compounds still manage to kill big game. Occasionally they do feel the necessity to replace or hang something else on the bow. Regardless I have a cousin who trades every year for the newest, latest, and greatest. I did figure out why he does this after seeing a couple of his year old bows. They were worn completely out from more or less constant use since he shoots every day and does not believe in maintenance of any kind.

As a bowhunter I'm gonna have to agree whole heartedly. I will admit I do not know how the mark up compares between bows and guns but I do know the resale is not comparable. I think part of the reason may be that a bows life span does not compare to a guns. My Hoyt is maybe 4 years old and I've already had the cams replaced because they were squeaking and the limb pockets replaced because they began to rattle. I've had older bow limbs split and of course your string and cables need replaced periodically.

I sure if I was a gun hunter I would get more bang for my buck. (lame, I know)

I wonder if they will take two decked-out test-fired Mathews in trade for one Benelli.

Seems Benelli subscribes to that newer is better approach, too. There's the M2, the SBE, the SBE II, and now the Vinci (okay, calling the Vinci an upgrade is controversial). What is next? Hopefully, a good looking Vinci II.

Good post, Phil. Why are bows so much more expensive?

I bought my last new bow in 1998. Top-shelf, and it cost about $350 (similar to a basic Remington 700). Today, a top-shelf bow costs about $800, but you can buy a basic Remington 700 for about the same money as 11 years ago.

What gives? I've wanted a new bow for a few years, but the principal of the high prices (not the cash itself) has kept me from buying one.

On the other hand, if you have the right OLD bow, they are worth more than the new ones. I have a 1970s model Fred Bear Polar (5-wheel) that is one such bow. This is clearly the exception, as most 5-year old or older bows these days are considered near-junk.

Same holds true with muzzle loaders. Always a newer and better and more pricey rig coming out.
Primitive weapons indeed!

I figure for rifles it's just looks. How different from 20 years ago are the internals for a Remington 700?
Even for guns, they come out with a "new" one every few years. Yet many people here, like me, like the same things best they did 25 years ago.

Aren't bows the same way? I haven't bought a bow since my old "Brown Stag" 28 years ago. I do know it has to have gotten better since those. But past a certain point, how much does a half-millimeter more or less really change things?

You could say I traded a gun for a bow - I sold a Ruger # 1 to buy a nicer bow than the one I had. Reason - I live in Southern Michigan, where I do 95% of my hunting. It's a shotgun only zone, with a bow season that lasts 3 months and a gun season that lasts, basically, 2 weeks. I simply sold one thing (which I do miss a lot) that I didn't use at all for something that I use almost every day (certainly once to twice a week).

Perhaps the guy simply wasn't using the shotguns anymore and would rather have gotten something out of them than collecting dust in a safe. Maybe. I certainly wouldn't think twice about trading any synthetic-stock shotgun on a compound bow. To me, they're both utilitarian versions of something that are made to be used but not necessarily admired from an aesthetic point of view.

I use the same old Bear Polar II that I have for 20 years. I bought it for 60.00. I have more into my arrows and sight than I do my bow. This year I did buy a shotgun though, a Mossgberg 500. This is what a shotgun should be. Tough, fast,lightweight, nothing fancy, kills things dead. Just like my bow.

Bob81 - you make a good point. I consider polymer stocked rifles and compound bows utilitarian and don't have an emotional attachment to them. I consider wood stocked rifles and wooden recurve/long bows heirlooms. Pains me greatly to part with one.

Want a little insight on how the bow companies are getting folks to do it? Take a look at the cost of rifle ammo.
We can not all handload, and the ten dollar a box range ammo that is now consistently twenty is not really thrilling folks. Longer work schedules, the ability to practice closer to home, and yes, the increase in ammo (while gas prices have come back to much lower levels) have people considering other alternatives (along with shorter gun seasons). Maybe Petzal will take a blog to tell the ammunition mfr's to get real with their ammo prices so that we can practice much more often, or maybe they will continue to be like the oil companies and slowly alienate hunters by digging into our wallets by giving us less for more.

How you give up those two Bennelli's is beyond me, but I am sure Bestful could comment on how we get duped into buying new bows every couple of years.

I looked at a new Mathews and the price of the bow and complete set up came home talked to the wife the next day found a sweet deal on a Pre64 M12 with upraded wood for $300 less.... I bought the M12.

I'm not anti-bow in any way - but there's no way I'd have to have a bow that bad. Sounds like to me the guy named his own poison on that deal. All I can say to that is DAMN.

I still have the same HCA (High Country Archery) 4Runner I bought back in 99 and I don’t feel there is a bow good enough to trade now!

Bottom Line,

My bow shoots 310ish fps and is exceptionally accurate out to 50 yards and can wag 60 yard "MOP". Check out my picture of my target in my profile

WHY BUY A NEW BOW!

This is a lot like the crossbow debate. Bows have had the same killing power forever, if not even more in the past; check this out.

http://www.currentmiddleages.org/artsci/docs/Champ_Bane_Archery-Testing....

This site shows an english style longbow shooting through most types of medieval armor. Old longbows could only shoot an arrow at about 170-180 fps (even Clay's ten year old bow does 310) but the arrow weighed 1000-1500 grains, as heavy as five or six modern arrows, with a lot more momentum. A modern arrow at 300 grains and 300 fps would probably bounce off plate armor like a piece of popcorn, but I've not seen any tests.

However, longbows had draws anywhere from 75 to 150 pounds. The boys can't pull that. Modern bows are getting faster, smaller and lighter, and still easier to draw every year. So the boys pay. Shotguns are nicer; they only punish you after the shot.

He should have kept the Benellis. In my opinion, Mathews bows suck big time this year. I work in a professional archery shop and I have firsthand experience with the Mathews Reezen 6.5 AND 7.0 bows. They're both hard to pull and are hand-shocky as hell due to their extreme cams and draw-force curves. The Mathews Monster bows are blowing up in people's faces. One guy I heard had his face split open when a Monster bow derailed and the string came whipping back at him. On the other hand, a complete bow package (esp. one as overpriced as Mathews) would run about $1500. Still, to me, it's not worth the value of TWO Benellis.

Clay, your HCA bow may shoot 310 fps IBO, but I doubt you're shooting your arrows at that speed. You may also be shooting a lighter-than-IBO-weight arrow (5 grains per pound of draw-weight). Arrow speed also depends upon your draw-length. A guy with a 29" draw-length is going to shoot a 400 grain arrow a lot faster than a guy with a 25" draw-ength. The newer bows are more forgiving; easier to draw, and definitely shoot a lot faster than your HCA bow could. For speed, smooth draw, quietness and lack of hand-shock, look at the new center-pivot Bowtech bows or the Elite bows. And Parker does make great bows for the price.

Focusfront, I've personally shot a 400 grain carbon arrow @ 268 fps through the front of a 55 gallon steel drum (and dented the other side) with my compound bow. I'm pretty sure it'll go through armor, front and back.

As was mentioned earlier, bow-hunting extends your hunting season, which is why a lot of people come into the shop to buy a complete bow package from us. We tune a bow to be as quiet and forgiving as possible to shoot. We also tune broadheads to spin true so that they are capable of hitting out to 60 yards with accuracy.

This is a clear demonstration of what is wrong with America today. A complete lack of common sense. Why not just sell the shotguns to someone and make a bit more money? Then if folks would let those expensive bows just sit on the shelves and buy a more economical product the manufacturers would get the picture, we enable these crooks. PT Barnum said there was a sucker born every minute and boy do we have a bumper crop! What deer or elk can this bow take that a 10 year old Bear WT Hunter and aluminum arrows cannot take? Its just sad really. I would not have a Matthews bow if someone gave me one.

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this before but in places like Ohio you can bowhunt for over 4 months straight. Most other states have very liberal bow seasons and it's usually the bow hunters that get first crack at the big ones. Maybe he wanted to get into bowhunting and just didn't have the extra cash for a new bow.

I’ve had problems with bow hunting over the years. This Benelli trade underscores the situation IMHO.

Obviously, modern bows allow the weekender bow hunter to use the gear. Few weekenders’ have the strength or skill to use classic longbow or Turkish Recurve. I deplore the selfishness of bow hunters, too.

In NYS bow hunters have close to 90-days to infest the Uplands and Woods. 30-days prior to opening on Deer Gun Season….and during the pheasant season…. are enough time to put most deer on guard and turn them into nocturnal movers and feeders.

I really don’t consider the vast majority of bow hunters…*big game hunters*. The bow hunters I see drive to their hunting site in a 4WD, walk 200-yards or less to a tree stand, and sit for four-hours.

Bow hunting safe with all the camo and green face paint when there’s over-lapping Upland Seasons. The camo ninja scene is a joke considering deer are color blind.

Know this rant isn’t going to make some people happy, but bow hunters haven’t made me happy.

Where i grew up and currently live in AR, we only had a one weekend Shotgun w/ slugs deer hunt and even now it is only 9 days shotguns w/ slugs or muzzleloaders only, but our archery season runs from Oct. 1 - Feb. 28. Would have still held on to the shotguns but definately put alot of money into my archery equipment too.

In my lame state, one can only hunt one season/method unless drawn for a multi-season tag with very low odds.

So when you have to pick only one method, i.e. rifle, muzzleloader, or archery for the year; make mine a rifle season. You guys that can hunt multiple seasons wit hgun and bow are lucky. Not worth my time to diversify.

What I also don't like about bowhunting is the wounding factor which most of them don't seem to want to talk about in magazine articles and such. Yet every year I hear bowhunting fanatics that I know talk about the one they again stuck but couldn't recover. Now we all know that game gets wounded by gun hunters also, but no one will ever convince me that the expert archer will put as many animals down for keeps like an expert rifleman could. Just too many factors come into play when shooting at an animal with a bow that the rifleman doesn't have to contend with like the animal jumping the string which can make even a perfect aim into a crippling shot. This is why I put little faith in a bow and bowhunters in general. They are ALL expert shots shooting at targets, but many have not realized that shooting at game is a whole different ballgame and even the best of shots will pretty much have to pray his Hail Mary's for some needed luck when shooting at game. They may be OK with potentially only wounding game, but I surely am not. Again, not like a gun hunter couldn't only wound a deer and have it get away, but in general I think it will happen a WHOLE lot less to the expert rifleman compared to the expert archer. Most any rifle or shotgun will outperform a bow in lethality by an extremely large margin in my opinion, thus I have given up bowhunting for good and will stick to my guns.

I think the reason bow manufactures can get away with the higher prices is the advancement in technology over the past 25 years. Not saying that a 25 year old bow is bad bow but it can hardly be compared to the newer ones.

If shotguns made advancements similar to what bows have done over the past 25 years none of would be able to afford one.

Was it a good trade? Ask the guy who did it.

Go to the ANSWERS page for "elkinmontana"'s tale of woe wounding a 330 bull and asking on the internet what should he do...

You read, you decide.

A Kiowa or Comanche Indian bow from a couple hundred years ago would still kill a deer today. So would my old Fred Bear recurve I had when I was a kid. Relates kinda to golf. Do you think golfers (even hackers) play with the same set of clubs they started with?
I don't know about you Bourjaily, but I acquire a new shotgun every year for dove season here in Texas. Makes a good excuse. This year's lucky find is a restored English 16 ga. sxs with 29" barrels that weighs slightly less than 6 lbs. with st. grip and splinter fore end.
Yes, it shoots 2 1/2" shells, and no, I didn't pay an outrageous price for it. Did I actually need it? Hell, no, but I wanted it. Personally, I wouldn't trade one good shotgun for 10 bows. Nothing against bowhunting, but blued steel and pretty walnut has a place in my heart.
Michael

Buckhunter, from my experience I found that it is quite a bit easier to consistently hit a bull at 30 yards with a bow than it is to hit a target at 100 yards with a rifle in a typical field shooting position. I think most bow shooters are nailing the targets only after a small amount of time shooting one of these modern bows, but as you say they haven't even scratched the surface of what bowhunting will entail. We will probably be condemned by many saying that we should just all get along and such. That is all fine, but since I typically don't hear bowhunters seriously discuss some of these realities of bowhunting I will feel NO shame in pointing out some of the things they don't want to whether they want to listen or not.

Some people have all the luck! ...and some people are REALLY STUPID.

I would love to find a good-priced used Benelli auto! Even a lowly M1!

Mathews most expensive bow is the Monster, and decked out it couldn't have been more than $1200 or so. How do you trade TWO BENELLIS for that?

OrangeNeckInNY

At 8 feet my HCA is shooting 310fps across the Chronograph with 28" Gold Tips with a 100 grain field tip and Broad Heads. Doubt all you want but the facts are the facts; I’m not shooting your Granddaddies Bow!

That bow will probably be obsolete by next year. Bows seem to be getting more high tech year after year.

With bows, the technology has far exceeded the skill levels of most archers. Most guys would shoot a 10 year old bow just as well as a new bow.

The "technology turnover" is remarkable in the archery business, and "limited production models" are another big deal keeping people buying the stuff.
I don't understand it either, but I know retailers are loving it; stock turn over is unbelievable on archery items!

What horrible trade. He got the shaft on that deal. He should've bought a Parker fully outfitted for cheaper and a lifetime warranty and kept his guns.

So Phil,
How much you asking for the M2?

I don't know about the particulars of that trade...but every deer I've killed has been with a bow and can't imagine hunting deer any other way. I hunt squirrels and rabbits and turkey. Bowhunting (without bait) forces me to get as close to the animal as I can and learn as much about them and their habitat as I can. I practice nearly every day all year....So, if my bow snapped and I was short on coin, could I part with some scatterguns, yeah.

In case anyone cares, I have nothing against bowhunting myself.
I used to bowhunt, 20 years ago, before kids and bird dogs complicated my life. I'll probably take it up again someday. I may try traditional gear, I might buy the latest, fastest thing, or I may dust off my old bow, a Browning Cobra that was their bottom of the line compound in 1982.
Fitch 270: I'm keeping the M2 for my kids to shoot. It's grown on me.

By the wat HCA and Mathews are colse to being the same bow, in fact my bow has a Mathew roller bearing wheel to get the extra speed.

I agree with SL, and wounding factor or bows. I know several long time bowhunters who quit because of wounding animals and not finding them. You have the shock factor with a gun, and if you hit bone usually still does the job. have heard reports of old arrows and pieces of arrows in elk and other animals that got harvested later so it is happening. re gun trade for bow. who knows but I know when anti-gun people have garage estate sales the guns and accessories usually go cheap as they want them gone. deals for all.

SL, I understand what you are saying. When bow hunting one has to be a lot more patient with their shots. Waiting for the right shot is a must whether bow hunting or firearm hunting. You talk about your dislike of bows because of hunters making poor shots. Well I have heard of lots of bad/careless shots made with firearms.

I love to shotgun hunt but the reason I got into bow hunting was because I enjoyed deer hunting so much. I could not handle only pursing the whitetail for only one week all year long. Everything about deer hunting gets my blood pumping. From the alarm going off at 4 a.m. to the 1/2 mile drag of the deer out of the woods at 11 p.m. with a cheap rope that breaks 3 times along the way.

But since I hold myself to high standards/ethics and hunt dense timbers, rarely will I make an arrow shot beyond twenty five yards. It's not about what method you use to take a deer It's about your ability/maturity to make an ethical shot.

As for trading those two firearms for a new high tech bow, no thanks, the bow I bought 8 years ago is more high tech than I can handle.

In Amerika, the preferred hunting activity is ...Shopping!
Mr. exBenelli owner had to have his "fix". Mathews likely adds new tweaks to it's gear every year just so folks can always have the latest thing, it is all about fashion and not about substance. Stupid people go for that, smart folks look for quality and stick with it when they find it. It looks like you can spend ANY amount of money you might have to waste on "High Tech" archery gear, but to me that is oxymoronic, archery is Low Tech! That is why they invented guns!

Bella,

Must agree with shopping being the #1 hunting activity.

I can't begin to believe the dogma exposed in this blog.

Seems most people here are fixed in their thoughts, but I'll throw my two cents in anyway.

I don't know why a modern bow costs so much, but when I decided to start bow hunting last year I payed extra for a Hoyt because they have a solid reputation for quality and customer service. It should be a bow I can hunt with for a damn long time, fate willing. Carbon arrows are more durable than aluminum and wood. Pay more up front, save more money down the road.

I don't know what jobs everyone works, but mine doesn't allow me to practice like the English and Native American archers of old. Nor do I have the time to hone my hunting skills the way they did. I may be good but will freely admit that I don't ever expect to be that good. And I doubt there are any here who could honestly say different.

And for those that think arrows wound too much, what about all the 'snipers' out there with their thousands of dollars worth of rifles and optics that need multiple shots to kill an animal at unethical ranges at best and cripple as bad a misplaced arrow at worst? Those gear queers are as bad as any out there, so don't act like rifle shooters are on the high ground here.

You want extra time to hunt? Pick up a bow and see what it's about.

Clay, you certainly can shoot a deer past 30 yards. I used the wrong choice of words in that comment. We tell our customers that they shouldn't try to shoot a deer beyond 30 yards, esp. if their bows aren't 60# or greater. My mistake.

At 50 yards, your arrows are arcing like a *mother*. An arcing arrow does not have the same penetration as an arrow shooting flatter at shorter distances. YOU may be able to blow through a deer at 50 yards with YOUR equipment, but most bowhunters would not. I certainly wouldn't try to shoot a deer with an arrow at 50 yards - there's just not enough kinetic energy to pass through, if it hits bone. Right off the string, an arrow starts losing kinetic energy. When that arrow loses energy, it starts to be influenced by the planing forces exerted on the broadhead. Unless your broadheads are trued to the arrow, it will plane.

Clay, assuming you have a 29" drawlength, with your arrow (assuming it's the 8.2 gpi Gold Tip XT and cut to 29"), weight comes to approximately 416 grains. Off the string, it's got 89 lb.ft. of KE. At 50 yards, it's probably down to 40 lb.ft. or so, with its velocity around 2/3 what it was. For what you shoot, you can afford to take those long shots, but again, to most people, they can't.

And no, there's no moonbat here. I'm just telling you like it is here in NY, where the average shot on a deer is 14 yards. Here, we want to harvest deer, not wound them.

Just curious, what was the speed rating on your High Country 4Runner bow?

OrangeNeckInNY,
PA isn't much different:
Adult Resident Hunting License: $20.70
Resident Archery License: $16.70
Resident Muzzleloader License: $11.70 -at least I'm not muzzleloading this year!
Resident Bear License: $16.70 -ain't doing that either!
Elk License Application: $10.70 -note:Application fee, random drawing to see who actually gets a license out of it, as far as I know there are no refunds.
Antlerless Deer Licenses: Cost for Residents: $6.70
Adult Resident Furtaker License: $20.70

My resident basic license and Archery and Doe tag was $44.10 plus a couple of stamps for the doe application being by mail only.

Everything total could be $103.90!
Plus there are a few other Misc licenses you can get, like bobcat, second spring turkey, second doe tag, etc..

And WHY does everything end in 70 cents? What's wrong with round numbers?

Hey...what happened to my post from last night? Did it get deleted?

Ahhh, ther's my comment. Funny that it didn't come up when I clicked the "comments" link... Ignore my last 2 comments.

Clay, why are you getting so defensive? Just because I point out the fact that what's good for you may not be what's good for most other bowhunters? And the fact that we try and educate bowhunters to the efficacy of an arrow on a deer at certain distances? I'm familiar with High Country's bows and they are a tough pull. Because of that, they'll shoot flatter. But not everyone shoots a High Country bow. Back when you got your bow, they were top of the line, but you'd be hard-pressed to find today's HCA bow that's as nice to shoot and more forgiving, without sacrificing speed, than today's bows.

The original post was about why a supposedly sane person who trade in 2 Benelli shotguns for a Mathews bow. It's not about your bow and how you can blow through a deer at 60 yards. It's about extending one's hunting season and a bow is a way to do that. Perhaps the gentleman who traded in his shotguns still has dozens of them in his collection and didn't need these ones anymore.

I'm sorry I went after you about your ability to blow an arrow through a deer at 60 yards, but when you start telling people you can do that, they'll start thinking they can too. Not everyone shoots the same equipment you do, and not everyone can shoot the distances you can, so I'm only trying to dispel the myth that everyone can shoot a deer at 60 yards with an arrow.

I apologize to everyone for this entire exchange. I'm dropping the subject.

"I'm sorry I went after you about your ability to blow an arrow through a deer at 60 yards, but when you start telling people you can do that, they'll start thinking they can too."

Funny thing about that statement, if I can do it they can too, LOL!

How do you do that ? Very simple Grasshopper!