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Chad Love: Scouts Ban Knives in Great Britain

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September 08, 2009

Chad Love: Scouts Ban Knives in Great Britain

By Chad Love

I've previously waxed poetic about my love for all things British, especially fine English doubles .
 
Unfortunately, however, Great Britain is also home to some of the most bizarre and draconian weapons laws on the planet. As such, many Americans like to hold up the British Isles as an example of what's on the horizon for us, but after seeing this bit of news      this morning I don't buy that argument any more, because there's simply no way we could ever go as collectively crazy as this...right?
 
From the story:
 
LONDON, Sept. 6 (UPI) -- British Scouts will no longer be permitted to carry knives, even on camping trips, due to an increase in fatal stabbings, Scout officials said Sunday.

Traditionally, Scouts learned to use knives properly to cut wood for fires or to carve tools. Recently, the Scout Association said parents should be the ones to bring knives to meetings or on camping trips, the Sunday Telegraph reported.

"We believe that young people need more places to go after school and at weekends, where they can experience adventure without the threat of violence or bullying and the need to carry weapons," a Scouts spokesman said. "Scouting helps to prepare young people with valuable life skills, while keeping them safe by not carrying knives."

I don't even know where to start with this one. The sheer lunacy of it has temporarily disabled my smartass commentary reflex. Boy scouts. Without knives. Because it's too dangerous.

Comments (55)

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from sjsmarais@gmail.com wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Hard to believe that the Brits had a huge empire less than a hundred years ago. They are getting seriously soft. I feel sorry for boys growing up in the UK, can't be much fun being protected from everything that is 'dangerous'. I believe that boys need some exposure to risky activities to set boundaries. Maybe that's why so many of their teenagers act out violently later.

+5 Good Comment? | | Report
from ckRich wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

It sounds to me like the Brits have strayed away from one of the main purposes of the Scouts: teaching youth valuable life skills and RESPONSIBILITY, including the responsibility that comes from carrying/using a TOOL that can possibly be used as a weapon. If they are going to ban knives then they might as well ban walking sticks, lest there be a mass outbreak of clubbings...

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from RJ Arena wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

I could not agree more with the above posts, Banning a tool, how crazy is that?!!! So if British scouts want to learn how to carve, they have to take home economics, or has PETA banned turkeys there too? It is a rite of passage that a youngster gets their first pocket knife, and from that tool so many of life's lessons are learned- but we must be protected from ourselves, we might hurt someone, so better ban sticks and stones too.Maybe the scouts can sit in a circle and talk about their feelings, and the community we live in, be part of that community organization-

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Papa B. wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Unfathomable!
First I ask, of all the recent fatal stabbings, how many were done by scouts or troop leaders? I'll promise you it was zero! What it takes for a person to cross the threshold of committing murder is exactly the opposite of what a caring parents and/or troop leaders are embedding in a developing scout's influential mind. More than likely the scouts are the ones who grow up to be the leaders who protect the rest from the type who might use a knife to harm someone.

Second, if it about bullying, when you take away all the equalizers the bullies have free reign to do as they will.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Bob81 wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

I want to nominate Great Britain as the craziest , most paranoid country in the western world. If you think this is bat-$hit nuts, read about the thousands of security cameras covering every square inch of London (over 500,000 by a recent estimate I heard.)

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from focusfront wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Great post, Chad.

Time was, every man and boy carried a pocket knife. But that was when a knife was a tool. Nobody who knows knives would consider a boy scout knife or a swiss army knife to be a weapon, any more than a butter knife is a weapon. The steel is too thin, there is no point to speak of, and the slip joint blade would be too likely to close on your fingers if you used it for anything but straight away cutting. But because it CAN cut, the boy who owns one has to learn responsibility, to keep from cutting himself at least.

But this is lost on the modern mind. We protect the rights of the HIV infected homosexual to maintain a promiscuous lifestyle, even though technically the gay kills everyone he has sex with, and take away the right of the innocent boy to whittle a stick. What happens there, usually happens here in time. Wait for it.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from country road wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Chad's last paragraph sums it up. It's hard to think of a reply to something so idiotic except that it scares me to think of the fact that it can happen here. It is at times like these that I'm glad that I'm at an advancing age and likely won't be around to have to live in such a world. I feel sorry for my grandchildren. Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from dukkillr wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

I second Bob81's nomination! Hey Britain, how about banning cars too? Those things are much more dangerous than knives! Why not just mandate that everyone take the bus over there? Countless lives would be saved, I'm sure...

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from RJ Arena wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

The absurdity of it all, the Brits ban guns because they think that guns kill people, and they are trying to ban knives, because they believe that knives kill people.Soon it will be cricket bats. When will they understand that it is people who kill people, and that a tool is just a tool?

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Mike Diehl wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Has there been a problem with UK boy-scouts stabbing each other? Or is this the (usual) safetymaniac intrusion where it's neither jusitified, needed or wanted?

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Bryan01 wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

What next, outlaw conventional silverware in public restaraunts and allow only plastic sporks?

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from jjas wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Seems like in the future all we'll be able to teach our sons is how to survive the shopping mall and maybe how to hold their wives/girlfriends purses.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from dighunter wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Just one of the many ways the world is allowed to become softer by the day. Tough people are a dying breed.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Teodoro wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

So can we just alleviate the national debt by collectively holding up great Britain. Sounds like three guys with machetes could do it.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

“False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils, except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm those only who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicide, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. They ought to be designated as laws not preventive but fearful of crimes, produced by the tumultuous impression of a few isolated facts, and not by thoughtful consideration of the inconveniences and advantages of a universal decree.”
-Ceasare Beccaria, 18th century criminologist, in On Crimes and Punishments

+5 Good Comment? | | Report
from buckhunter wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Someone just earned their STUPID badge.

+5 Good Comment? | | Report
from crm3006 wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

"A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand."
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
The Brits fell into the pit of stupidity when they turned in all their firearms. Now, instead of trying to climb out, they are digging themselves deeper with both hands, since they are banning tools.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from nerffodder wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Ridiculus. Of all people, Boy Scouts? I cant say anymore. Excuse me while I go and cry in a corner.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from straightshooter wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

“Trust should be the basis for all our moral training.”
“An individual step in character training is to put responsibility on the individual.”
“The more responsibility the Scoutmaster gives his patrol leaders, the more they will respond.”
Lord Robert Baden-Powell, founder of the Boy Scouts

I suspect that Lord Baden-Powell is now turning over in his grave.

+5 Good Comment? | | Report
from Wags wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

-straightshooter

Put a turbine on old Baden-Powell and generate some green power because the old boy is not turning over, he is SPINNING. My guess is you can hear the hum from a mile away. My boys are both active Scouts (one Boy, one Cub) and they both tend to point out when grown-ups (including Dad) are not handling their knives properly. Unbelievable, but on second thought I guess not, considering all the pasty faced Brits are willing to give up. It is amazing that they once, not that long ago, actually had an empire. Today the Irish or the Scots could woop them in about a day and a half and have the whole place to themselves.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Wags wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

uhh, another question. The paragraph said the parents should bring the knives. Now, in one generation, who will be allowed to carry the knife if the education of how to do so responsibly is taken away?? I'm guessing only grandparents will be allowed to "carry".

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Wags wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

HEYYY! That last comment just got me to 2 stars!!

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

The "UK"?

You just can't fix STUPID!

If you look closely at “UK’s” Military Weapons there is a arrow and a inscription of directions that says "THIS END/POINT TOWARDS ENEMY!"

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from buckhunter wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

I'll have to assume that some Brtis are also flabbergasted by this. We don't want to paint...

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Since knives are forbidden and they no longer allowed to cut up there swanks without adult doing it for them the question is, shouldn’t all British and the rest of the “UK” should they all have their teeth pulled so they couldn’t eat something to get chocked on it. All meals must be prepared by a Government approved facility to be eaten though a straw!

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from RobinHood wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Helicopter parents....safety is one thing, but at the cost of living a normal life, no thanks.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Hunter Savage wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

well they took a way most of their guns . so now its knives next up base ball bats and cast iron frying pans

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from straightshooter wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

FYI-
In the US, carrying a knife is a privilege that a Scout earns by fulfilling the requirements for the Totin’ Chip Award. This award is given to Scouts who have been trained and demonstrated the proper use of knives, saws and axes AND has committed to:
• Use the knife, saw or axe as a tool…
• Respect all safety rules to protect others
• Respect property…

To carry a knife at a Boy Scout event, a Scout is required to have the Totin’ Chip card showing that he has earned the privilege to do so. Scouts who do not handle their knives responsibly can lose the privilege to carry it.

From the proud father of an Eagle Scout.

+8 Good Comment? | | Report
from sgaredneck wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

The sun has officially set on the British Empire......

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from sgaredneck wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

....and I think I also read somewhere(I think it was on F&S and another site) that the British Army was considering stopping use of live ammo for training, since the quality of simulators is so good. This is supposed to be a cost cutting/safety measure.....I guess they are going to beat their swords into plowshares...no,no, wait. You could hurt yourself with one of those too.......

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from ranger2 wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

Its a good thing many britts have big gnarly teeth, they can chew through things instead of using a pocket knife to cut them...

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from michaux wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

Look at all the money they will save by not having to print Totin'Chip cards. They will now have to eliminate the cooking, wilderness survival, camping and other merit badges. Don't forget your axe.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from CastMaster25 wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

First off, isn't it the Scout Leaders job/responsiblity to teach scouts how to properly handle knives/hachets/axes before they even go out on camping trips? If im not mistaken i think learning to handle these tools is one of the first tenderfoot requirements. I know in my home troop boys definetly do not carry/handle these tools without having their totenchit and their requirements met. A pocket knife is a scouts best friend! It is the number one tool that he needs when he is out in the woods camping, on hiking trips, or doing other scout activities. In scouts, knifes aren't weapons, they are necessary tools. Boys need to be respobsible for their actions when using these tools. If these leaders/scouts were responsible the knives should not be out unless they are being used for scout activites. This would decrease the chance of their "stabbings".

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Bella wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

How can a Scout possibly "be prepared" without the classic scout knife!
Considering the English "football" fan and the riots they seem to frequently start at sporting events, one could postulate the English to be the most violent vicious and cruel peoples on the Earth. Actually, considering the last thousand years of history, where the residents of a tiny northern isle invaded and extended it's hegemony around the globe killing and enslaving everyone else they met, the notion could find some creedence. Of course I am mostly English myself, by ancestry, so I can testify as to the legendary ferocity of my forbearers.
Still it may be that, now that the Empire is but a memory, and conquering other people, displacing them and taking their stuff is frowned upon, perhaps the powers that be in old G.B. are finding their fractious subjects hard to handle now that they just can't ship the lot to Australia like they used to.
Still the two most traditional English weapons are fists and cudgels and frankly if I had to fight somebody and was given the choice of Scout knife or cudgel, I'd take the stick!
All the weapons confiscation that could be imagined would never make England passive. The issue is not the weapons but the English!

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from idahooutdoors wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

"go as collectively crazy"....many are already there, now they are trying to figure out how to force the rest of us to join them in Nutty Town.....

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from seadog wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

The world's gone crazy.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Sb Wacker wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

Gentlemen
Yes it pains me to write these words, but I have in all good conscience to tell you that yes a collective madness has seized our nation. We now outlaw anything that may help a young person develop and identity based on their own competency and instead offer them a small number of pre-assigned roles to choose from. THUG, being very popular.

Interestingly about one third of UK adult males have a criminal record. So either we are bloodthirsty violent bastards, hell bent on mayhem or our elected representatives have retired to an ivory tower where they pass laws based on what people should do rather than what they actually do.

As so few of you have travelled, you’ll have to read Chad’s reports to make up your own minds.
Cheers
SBW
PS for the real story of firearms in the UK read James Marchington’s sporting shooter blog.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from mattreney wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

realy? that pathetic im a young person and unless im in school i always have a knife, have for years never pulled it out and stabbbed someone just a guess here but i dont think im the only sain one. who on here actually knows someone who randomly pulled a knife and killed someone? next well be required to have foam padded floors to avoid rug burn

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from peter wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

so for british scouts "a little advenrure" is wearing bubble wrap, knee pads, and a helmet whenever you walk outside and talking about how they feel safe from bullys? thats crazy i thought they made scouts to teach kids selfreliance not that that u should be scared of poket knives

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ruckweiler wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

Our English cousins should be pitied for allowing socialism such root in the country that gave us Magna carts. We in America should use them as an example to be avoided. Sic Semper Tyrannis.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ruckweiler wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

Magna Carta, not Magna carts.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Colorado Samurai wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

I still can't believe that Britain has banned knives from scouts. Of all the people in the world to hold a knife, I would imagine them to be the most worthy to do so. Britain's populace had better snap to it and stop the government from letting it sink into the "nanny state" category any further than it is.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from OrangeNeckInNY wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

Maybe they can have knives made of wood. Oh wait, next thing you know, they'll be banning sharp, pointy sticks.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from HockeyDave wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

Yet another reason why the Scots and Irish want independence. Oh well, time for my tea and crumpets

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from HockeyDave wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

Next some psycho will stab a bunch of unarmed scouts, out on their weekend "adventure", to death and the Brits will outlaw camping!

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Roforde wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

I have faith in America that nothing like this will ever happen. Same with our guns. I just don't see it happening.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from crm3006 wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

Roforde-
Better take the blinders off and look around you. Ask yourself this:
1. Why did rifle,pistol and ammo sales go through the roof when obummer was elected?
2. Do you actually believe that gun control is off the demoncrat agenda?
3. Do you want to gamble your Second Amendment rights by accepting some sort of "limited" gun control? (Also known as the camel's nose under the tent technique.)

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Roforde wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

crm3006-
I understand where your coming from and I agree. But I have faith that Americans wont let that happen. What's wrong with hoping and believing that America wont be as stupid as the UK. No matter who is in the white house we all still have a voice.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from crm3006 wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

Roforde-
Thanks for your response and agreement. However, faith is not enough. We must not only battle with the anti-gunners, we must fight complacency within our own ranks. Millions of gun owners simply ignore the problem, because it is not their problem. For example, many of us have no use or need for a "black rifle." So, if they want to pass another "assault weapons ban" (and this IS on the current administration's agenda)it doesn't affect my Remington bolt gun, right?
WRONG!! This is exactly what I mean by the camel's nose under the tent. Once they get the black rifles, and the .50 cal rifles, then they want the handguns, or the sniper rifles, or the "combat shotguns."
Are you aware that your deer rifle is a sniper rifle? That the Remington 870 or Ithaca Mod. 37 is a combat shotgun? That the Nylon 66 is on the list included in HB45 to be banned? Never give an inch to the gun grabbers, because they will be back tomorrow for more, and suddenly, you are in the position of the hapless Brits, disarmed, disgusted, and defenseless. Think about it, and never become complacent. I will get off my soap box now.
crm

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from jasonmarinvet wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

You know, I just have to ask, first it was the French that went all soft, now their arch rival, the Brits, have followed suit. And I don't mean to gloat or anything, but we have knocked the snot out of both of them and sent them packing, then had to turn arond and had to come to their rescue by way of two world wars. I just hope we are not the the thrid in the trinity of losing our guns or our childrens future of the outdoors. I mean what is next, banning fishing up to the age of 16 too? Or refusing to teach Scouts their knots?

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Tyke wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

As a Brit I can only despair at this latest piece of politically correct idiocy. This bunch of self-serving non-entities who aspire to mediocracy [& fall far short of the bar] we somehow allowed to come to power are placing their own [failed] cronies in positions of responsibility & influence & this is the sort of feeble minded policy which results.
Is there a problem with knife crime ? - certainly in some of our inner cities, however I refuse to belief that the criminal underclass responsible for 95%+ of this crime are likely to join the local scout troop!
The result is to remove knives from a small group of generally responsible & well behaved youngsters, whilst doing zero about the owning & carrying of knives amongst the group responsible for the crimes involving knives.
We had the same thing after the Hungerford & Dunblaine shooting tragedies, suddenly it got much more difficult for a member of a clay-pigeon shooting club to continue his sport & responsible members of olympic discipline pistol shooting clubs had their sport effectively declared illegal & their pistols confiscated [with compensation being both delayed & in some cases, inadequate]. I am a member of a small deer stalking syndicate [5 in total] where we lease the sporting rights on a block of commercial hill forestry & manage the resident population of roe deer, I also buy a few days away for the larger deer species & so have a .243 Win & .270 in addition to a .22 for rabbiting etc & a few shotguns for driven shooting & wildfowling etc. I don't disagree with the policy of regulated firearms ownership, if only to prevent them being purchased by people with serious psyciatric problems or with a history of violent crime. However, making our already draconian firearms laws more restrictive for legal sporting shooters will do nothing to halt our burgeoning inner city gun crime as the drug gangs favoured weapons 'de jour', ie semi-automatic pistols & automatic sub-machine guns are already prohibited & certainly not listed on anyone's firearms certificate - I wouldn't even like to guess the last time anyone tried to hold up a bank with a sawn off shotgun which had been stolen in a [farm]house burglary, some time in the 1970s probably. But if we have another couple of tragedies whre innocent people are killed by sub-machine gun fire in a drive-by shhoting between feuding gangs of drug dealers, then our weak minded politicians will try & outlaw clay pigeon shooting or recreational deer stalking by way of a response - whilst passing further laws reducing the penalyies for possession & supply of drugs [they say it's only for 'lower category' drugs, yeah - right, I bet very few junkies stated with intravenous heroin as their first drug experience, but rather with so called 'soft' drugs before needing a bigger hit].
Anyway, back to the scouts, when I was a member [early 1970s & no, the blades wern't made of flint then!] a fixed blade [4"] sheath knife was part of the scout uniform. I can't remember panicking members of the public running screaming from us to lock them selves in their houses nor the A&E wards of local hospitals over-flowing with stabbing victims.
If you go out into the country you will need to use a knife at some time, if you have no experience & training as to its' correct use you are in greater danger of an accident, which in a remote location has a greater chance of resulting in a fatality or serious medical complication due to the delay before treatment. I feel therefor that it is the responsibility of the Scouts as an organisation to ensure that its members are correctly equiped both with the correct type of [fixed blade] knife & the knowledge of how to use it correctly [safely], failure to do so is negligent & potentially hazardous.
Oh hell, political correctness be damned - its time for the right-thinking backlash !

Regards, Tyke.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from crm3006 wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

I think the Brit that is posting makes my point with great eloquence.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from dave the bowhunter wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

are they gonna out law a axe next

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from dave the bowhunter wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

i have to agree with every thing cmr 3006 had to sayit never ends and after they get one law passed they keep going till another and another is passed,and i know a bunch of you wont like this or refuse to see it but eveyr time a democrat is in there they want your guns,and your tax dollors ,its plain and simple and any body that cant see this every time one is in there is blind

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carney wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

To complete the emasculation process, they teach the british boy scouts how to use panty liners...

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from jordjohn44 wrote 4 years 27 weeks ago

So essentially the British boy scouts are now just hikers? Thats gonna teach you some important things for the future. What can be more crazy than teaching children that it is ok to go into the woods without a knife.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from poppgunner wrote 4 years 27 weeks ago

I was recently looking at military survival videos, when I came across one about the Brit version of our SERE survival school. A rather frustrated instructor informed the camera that he could not get his students -- I believe they were RAF pilots-- to capture and skin small game. He pointed out in real life they were probably all going to die. I thought this was rather quirky since as a Marine I had Royal Marine instructors from time to time as we had an exchange program. I don't think I could print what my RM Colour Sergeant-- our equivalent of a Gunny would have said. But this was 20 years ago. I imagine if you can turn their minds to mush when they are young its easier to mould them into jello when they are older. We might not see this to this extent. Yet.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from FloridaHunter1226 wrote 4 years 17 weeks ago

Knives are probably the most useful thing in this world for everyday purpose. Put yourself in a survival situation, a knife may and possibly will save your life. Dropping knife skills and how to use them in life threatening scenarios is making these kids ignorant if anything.

0 Good Comment? | | Report

Post a Comment

from straightshooter wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

FYI-
In the US, carrying a knife is a privilege that a Scout earns by fulfilling the requirements for the Totin’ Chip Award. This award is given to Scouts who have been trained and demonstrated the proper use of knives, saws and axes AND has committed to:
• Use the knife, saw or axe as a tool…
• Respect all safety rules to protect others
• Respect property…

To carry a knife at a Boy Scout event, a Scout is required to have the Totin’ Chip card showing that he has earned the privilege to do so. Scouts who do not handle their knives responsibly can lose the privilege to carry it.

From the proud father of an Eagle Scout.

+8 Good Comment? | | Report
from sjsmarais@gmail.com wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Hard to believe that the Brits had a huge empire less than a hundred years ago. They are getting seriously soft. I feel sorry for boys growing up in the UK, can't be much fun being protected from everything that is 'dangerous'. I believe that boys need some exposure to risky activities to set boundaries. Maybe that's why so many of their teenagers act out violently later.

+5 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

“False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils, except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm those only who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicide, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. They ought to be designated as laws not preventive but fearful of crimes, produced by the tumultuous impression of a few isolated facts, and not by thoughtful consideration of the inconveniences and advantages of a universal decree.”
-Ceasare Beccaria, 18th century criminologist, in On Crimes and Punishments

+5 Good Comment? | | Report
from buckhunter wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Someone just earned their STUPID badge.

+5 Good Comment? | | Report
from straightshooter wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

“Trust should be the basis for all our moral training.”
“An individual step in character training is to put responsibility on the individual.”
“The more responsibility the Scoutmaster gives his patrol leaders, the more they will respond.”
Lord Robert Baden-Powell, founder of the Boy Scouts

I suspect that Lord Baden-Powell is now turning over in his grave.

+5 Good Comment? | | Report
from crm3006 wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

Roforde-
Thanks for your response and agreement. However, faith is not enough. We must not only battle with the anti-gunners, we must fight complacency within our own ranks. Millions of gun owners simply ignore the problem, because it is not their problem. For example, many of us have no use or need for a "black rifle." So, if they want to pass another "assault weapons ban" (and this IS on the current administration's agenda)it doesn't affect my Remington bolt gun, right?
WRONG!! This is exactly what I mean by the camel's nose under the tent. Once they get the black rifles, and the .50 cal rifles, then they want the handguns, or the sniper rifles, or the "combat shotguns."
Are you aware that your deer rifle is a sniper rifle? That the Remington 870 or Ithaca Mod. 37 is a combat shotgun? That the Nylon 66 is on the list included in HB45 to be banned? Never give an inch to the gun grabbers, because they will be back tomorrow for more, and suddenly, you are in the position of the hapless Brits, disarmed, disgusted, and defenseless. Think about it, and never become complacent. I will get off my soap box now.
crm

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from Tyke wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

As a Brit I can only despair at this latest piece of politically correct idiocy. This bunch of self-serving non-entities who aspire to mediocracy [& fall far short of the bar] we somehow allowed to come to power are placing their own [failed] cronies in positions of responsibility & influence & this is the sort of feeble minded policy which results.
Is there a problem with knife crime ? - certainly in some of our inner cities, however I refuse to belief that the criminal underclass responsible for 95%+ of this crime are likely to join the local scout troop!
The result is to remove knives from a small group of generally responsible & well behaved youngsters, whilst doing zero about the owning & carrying of knives amongst the group responsible for the crimes involving knives.
We had the same thing after the Hungerford & Dunblaine shooting tragedies, suddenly it got much more difficult for a member of a clay-pigeon shooting club to continue his sport & responsible members of olympic discipline pistol shooting clubs had their sport effectively declared illegal & their pistols confiscated [with compensation being both delayed & in some cases, inadequate]. I am a member of a small deer stalking syndicate [5 in total] where we lease the sporting rights on a block of commercial hill forestry & manage the resident population of roe deer, I also buy a few days away for the larger deer species & so have a .243 Win & .270 in addition to a .22 for rabbiting etc & a few shotguns for driven shooting & wildfowling etc. I don't disagree with the policy of regulated firearms ownership, if only to prevent them being purchased by people with serious psyciatric problems or with a history of violent crime. However, making our already draconian firearms laws more restrictive for legal sporting shooters will do nothing to halt our burgeoning inner city gun crime as the drug gangs favoured weapons 'de jour', ie semi-automatic pistols & automatic sub-machine guns are already prohibited & certainly not listed on anyone's firearms certificate - I wouldn't even like to guess the last time anyone tried to hold up a bank with a sawn off shotgun which had been stolen in a [farm]house burglary, some time in the 1970s probably. But if we have another couple of tragedies whre innocent people are killed by sub-machine gun fire in a drive-by shhoting between feuding gangs of drug dealers, then our weak minded politicians will try & outlaw clay pigeon shooting or recreational deer stalking by way of a response - whilst passing further laws reducing the penalyies for possession & supply of drugs [they say it's only for 'lower category' drugs, yeah - right, I bet very few junkies stated with intravenous heroin as their first drug experience, but rather with so called 'soft' drugs before needing a bigger hit].
Anyway, back to the scouts, when I was a member [early 1970s & no, the blades wern't made of flint then!] a fixed blade [4"] sheath knife was part of the scout uniform. I can't remember panicking members of the public running screaming from us to lock them selves in their houses nor the A&E wards of local hospitals over-flowing with stabbing victims.
If you go out into the country you will need to use a knife at some time, if you have no experience & training as to its' correct use you are in greater danger of an accident, which in a remote location has a greater chance of resulting in a fatality or serious medical complication due to the delay before treatment. I feel therefor that it is the responsibility of the Scouts as an organisation to ensure that its members are correctly equiped both with the correct type of [fixed blade] knife & the knowledge of how to use it correctly [safely], failure to do so is negligent & potentially hazardous.
Oh hell, political correctness be damned - its time for the right-thinking backlash !

Regards, Tyke.

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from ckRich wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

It sounds to me like the Brits have strayed away from one of the main purposes of the Scouts: teaching youth valuable life skills and RESPONSIBILITY, including the responsibility that comes from carrying/using a TOOL that can possibly be used as a weapon. If they are going to ban knives then they might as well ban walking sticks, lest there be a mass outbreak of clubbings...

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from Papa B. wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Unfathomable!
First I ask, of all the recent fatal stabbings, how many were done by scouts or troop leaders? I'll promise you it was zero! What it takes for a person to cross the threshold of committing murder is exactly the opposite of what a caring parents and/or troop leaders are embedding in a developing scout's influential mind. More than likely the scouts are the ones who grow up to be the leaders who protect the rest from the type who might use a knife to harm someone.

Second, if it about bullying, when you take away all the equalizers the bullies have free reign to do as they will.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

I second Bob81's nomination! Hey Britain, how about banning cars too? Those things are much more dangerous than knives! Why not just mandate that everyone take the bus over there? Countless lives would be saved, I'm sure...

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from jjas wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Seems like in the future all we'll be able to teach our sons is how to survive the shopping mall and maybe how to hold their wives/girlfriends purses.

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from Teodoro wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

So can we just alleviate the national debt by collectively holding up great Britain. Sounds like three guys with machetes could do it.

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from Wags wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

uhh, another question. The paragraph said the parents should bring the knives. Now, in one generation, who will be allowed to carry the knife if the education of how to do so responsibly is taken away?? I'm guessing only grandparents will be allowed to "carry".

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

The "UK"?

You just can't fix STUPID!

If you look closely at “UK’s” Military Weapons there is a arrow and a inscription of directions that says "THIS END/POINT TOWARDS ENEMY!"

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from Sb Wacker wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

Gentlemen
Yes it pains me to write these words, but I have in all good conscience to tell you that yes a collective madness has seized our nation. We now outlaw anything that may help a young person develop and identity based on their own competency and instead offer them a small number of pre-assigned roles to choose from. THUG, being very popular.

Interestingly about one third of UK adult males have a criminal record. So either we are bloodthirsty violent bastards, hell bent on mayhem or our elected representatives have retired to an ivory tower where they pass laws based on what people should do rather than what they actually do.

As so few of you have travelled, you’ll have to read Chad’s reports to make up your own minds.
Cheers
SBW
PS for the real story of firearms in the UK read James Marchington’s sporting shooter blog.

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from peter wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

so for british scouts "a little advenrure" is wearing bubble wrap, knee pads, and a helmet whenever you walk outside and talking about how they feel safe from bullys? thats crazy i thought they made scouts to teach kids selfreliance not that that u should be scared of poket knives

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from RJ Arena wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

I could not agree more with the above posts, Banning a tool, how crazy is that?!!! So if British scouts want to learn how to carve, they have to take home economics, or has PETA banned turkeys there too? It is a rite of passage that a youngster gets their first pocket knife, and from that tool so many of life's lessons are learned- but we must be protected from ourselves, we might hurt someone, so better ban sticks and stones too.Maybe the scouts can sit in a circle and talk about their feelings, and the community we live in, be part of that community organization-

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from Bob81 wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

I want to nominate Great Britain as the craziest , most paranoid country in the western world. If you think this is bat-$hit nuts, read about the thousands of security cameras covering every square inch of London (over 500,000 by a recent estimate I heard.)

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from country road wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Chad's last paragraph sums it up. It's hard to think of a reply to something so idiotic except that it scares me to think of the fact that it can happen here. It is at times like these that I'm glad that I'm at an advancing age and likely won't be around to have to live in such a world. I feel sorry for my grandchildren. Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.

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from RJ Arena wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

The absurdity of it all, the Brits ban guns because they think that guns kill people, and they are trying to ban knives, because they believe that knives kill people.Soon it will be cricket bats. When will they understand that it is people who kill people, and that a tool is just a tool?

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from Mike Diehl wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Has there been a problem with UK boy-scouts stabbing each other? Or is this the (usual) safetymaniac intrusion where it's neither jusitified, needed or wanted?

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from nerffodder wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Ridiculus. Of all people, Boy Scouts? I cant say anymore. Excuse me while I go and cry in a corner.

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from Wags wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

-straightshooter

Put a turbine on old Baden-Powell and generate some green power because the old boy is not turning over, he is SPINNING. My guess is you can hear the hum from a mile away. My boys are both active Scouts (one Boy, one Cub) and they both tend to point out when grown-ups (including Dad) are not handling their knives properly. Unbelievable, but on second thought I guess not, considering all the pasty faced Brits are willing to give up. It is amazing that they once, not that long ago, actually had an empire. Today the Irish or the Scots could woop them in about a day and a half and have the whole place to themselves.

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from Wags wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

HEYYY! That last comment just got me to 2 stars!!

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from buckhunter wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

I'll have to assume that some Brtis are also flabbergasted by this. We don't want to paint...

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Since knives are forbidden and they no longer allowed to cut up there swanks without adult doing it for them the question is, shouldn’t all British and the rest of the “UK” should they all have their teeth pulled so they couldn’t eat something to get chocked on it. All meals must be prepared by a Government approved facility to be eaten though a straw!

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from RobinHood wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Helicopter parents....safety is one thing, but at the cost of living a normal life, no thanks.

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from sgaredneck wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

The sun has officially set on the British Empire......

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from CastMaster25 wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

First off, isn't it the Scout Leaders job/responsiblity to teach scouts how to properly handle knives/hachets/axes before they even go out on camping trips? If im not mistaken i think learning to handle these tools is one of the first tenderfoot requirements. I know in my home troop boys definetly do not carry/handle these tools without having their totenchit and their requirements met. A pocket knife is a scouts best friend! It is the number one tool that he needs when he is out in the woods camping, on hiking trips, or doing other scout activities. In scouts, knifes aren't weapons, they are necessary tools. Boys need to be respobsible for their actions when using these tools. If these leaders/scouts were responsible the knives should not be out unless they are being used for scout activites. This would decrease the chance of their "stabbings".

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from Bella wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

How can a Scout possibly "be prepared" without the classic scout knife!
Considering the English "football" fan and the riots they seem to frequently start at sporting events, one could postulate the English to be the most violent vicious and cruel peoples on the Earth. Actually, considering the last thousand years of history, where the residents of a tiny northern isle invaded and extended it's hegemony around the globe killing and enslaving everyone else they met, the notion could find some creedence. Of course I am mostly English myself, by ancestry, so I can testify as to the legendary ferocity of my forbearers.
Still it may be that, now that the Empire is but a memory, and conquering other people, displacing them and taking their stuff is frowned upon, perhaps the powers that be in old G.B. are finding their fractious subjects hard to handle now that they just can't ship the lot to Australia like they used to.
Still the two most traditional English weapons are fists and cudgels and frankly if I had to fight somebody and was given the choice of Scout knife or cudgel, I'd take the stick!
All the weapons confiscation that could be imagined would never make England passive. The issue is not the weapons but the English!

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from idahooutdoors wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

"go as collectively crazy"....many are already there, now they are trying to figure out how to force the rest of us to join them in Nutty Town.....

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from seadog wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

The world's gone crazy.

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from Ruckweiler wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

Our English cousins should be pitied for allowing socialism such root in the country that gave us Magna carts. We in America should use them as an example to be avoided. Sic Semper Tyrannis.

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from Ruckweiler wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

Magna Carta, not Magna carts.

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from OrangeNeckInNY wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

Maybe they can have knives made of wood. Oh wait, next thing you know, they'll be banning sharp, pointy sticks.

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from HockeyDave wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

Next some psycho will stab a bunch of unarmed scouts, out on their weekend "adventure", to death and the Brits will outlaw camping!

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from Roforde wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

I have faith in America that nothing like this will ever happen. Same with our guns. I just don't see it happening.

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from crm3006 wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

Roforde-
Better take the blinders off and look around you. Ask yourself this:
1. Why did rifle,pistol and ammo sales go through the roof when obummer was elected?
2. Do you actually believe that gun control is off the demoncrat agenda?
3. Do you want to gamble your Second Amendment rights by accepting some sort of "limited" gun control? (Also known as the camel's nose under the tent technique.)

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from Roforde wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

crm3006-
I understand where your coming from and I agree. But I have faith that Americans wont let that happen. What's wrong with hoping and believing that America wont be as stupid as the UK. No matter who is in the white house we all still have a voice.

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from dave the bowhunter wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

i have to agree with every thing cmr 3006 had to sayit never ends and after they get one law passed they keep going till another and another is passed,and i know a bunch of you wont like this or refuse to see it but eveyr time a democrat is in there they want your guns,and your tax dollors ,its plain and simple and any body that cant see this every time one is in there is blind

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from focusfront wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Great post, Chad.

Time was, every man and boy carried a pocket knife. But that was when a knife was a tool. Nobody who knows knives would consider a boy scout knife or a swiss army knife to be a weapon, any more than a butter knife is a weapon. The steel is too thin, there is no point to speak of, and the slip joint blade would be too likely to close on your fingers if you used it for anything but straight away cutting. But because it CAN cut, the boy who owns one has to learn responsibility, to keep from cutting himself at least.

But this is lost on the modern mind. We protect the rights of the HIV infected homosexual to maintain a promiscuous lifestyle, even though technically the gay kills everyone he has sex with, and take away the right of the innocent boy to whittle a stick. What happens there, usually happens here in time. Wait for it.

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from Bryan01 wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

What next, outlaw conventional silverware in public restaraunts and allow only plastic sporks?

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from dighunter wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Just one of the many ways the world is allowed to become softer by the day. Tough people are a dying breed.

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from crm3006 wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

"A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand."
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
The Brits fell into the pit of stupidity when they turned in all their firearms. Now, instead of trying to climb out, they are digging themselves deeper with both hands, since they are banning tools.

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from Hunter Savage wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

well they took a way most of their guns . so now its knives next up base ball bats and cast iron frying pans

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from sgaredneck wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

....and I think I also read somewhere(I think it was on F&S and another site) that the British Army was considering stopping use of live ammo for training, since the quality of simulators is so good. This is supposed to be a cost cutting/safety measure.....I guess they are going to beat their swords into plowshares...no,no, wait. You could hurt yourself with one of those too.......

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from ranger2 wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

Its a good thing many britts have big gnarly teeth, they can chew through things instead of using a pocket knife to cut them...

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from michaux wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

Look at all the money they will save by not having to print Totin'Chip cards. They will now have to eliminate the cooking, wilderness survival, camping and other merit badges. Don't forget your axe.

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from mattreney wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

realy? that pathetic im a young person and unless im in school i always have a knife, have for years never pulled it out and stabbbed someone just a guess here but i dont think im the only sain one. who on here actually knows someone who randomly pulled a knife and killed someone? next well be required to have foam padded floors to avoid rug burn

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from Colorado Samurai wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

I still can't believe that Britain has banned knives from scouts. Of all the people in the world to hold a knife, I would imagine them to be the most worthy to do so. Britain's populace had better snap to it and stop the government from letting it sink into the "nanny state" category any further than it is.

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from HockeyDave wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

Yet another reason why the Scots and Irish want independence. Oh well, time for my tea and crumpets

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from jasonmarinvet wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

You know, I just have to ask, first it was the French that went all soft, now their arch rival, the Brits, have followed suit. And I don't mean to gloat or anything, but we have knocked the snot out of both of them and sent them packing, then had to turn arond and had to come to their rescue by way of two world wars. I just hope we are not the the thrid in the trinity of losing our guns or our childrens future of the outdoors. I mean what is next, banning fishing up to the age of 16 too? Or refusing to teach Scouts their knots?

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from crm3006 wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

I think the Brit that is posting makes my point with great eloquence.

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from dave the bowhunter wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

are they gonna out law a axe next

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from Carney wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

To complete the emasculation process, they teach the british boy scouts how to use panty liners...

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from jordjohn44 wrote 4 years 27 weeks ago

So essentially the British boy scouts are now just hikers? Thats gonna teach you some important things for the future. What can be more crazy than teaching children that it is ok to go into the woods without a knife.

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from poppgunner wrote 4 years 27 weeks ago

I was recently looking at military survival videos, when I came across one about the Brit version of our SERE survival school. A rather frustrated instructor informed the camera that he could not get his students -- I believe they were RAF pilots-- to capture and skin small game. He pointed out in real life they were probably all going to die. I thought this was rather quirky since as a Marine I had Royal Marine instructors from time to time as we had an exchange program. I don't think I could print what my RM Colour Sergeant-- our equivalent of a Gunny would have said. But this was 20 years ago. I imagine if you can turn their minds to mush when they are young its easier to mould them into jello when they are older. We might not see this to this extent. Yet.

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from FloridaHunter1226 wrote 4 years 17 weeks ago

Knives are probably the most useful thing in this world for everyday purpose. Put yourself in a survival situation, a knife may and possibly will save your life. Dropping knife skills and how to use them in life threatening scenarios is making these kids ignorant if anything.

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