Please Sign In

Please enter a valid username and password
  • Log in with Facebook
» Not a member? Take a moment to register
» Forgot Username or Password

Why Register?
Signing up could earn you gear (click here to learn how)! It also keeps offensive content off our site.

Vermont Hunting Accident Will Go To Trial

Recent Comments

Categories

Recent Posts

Archives

Syndicate

Google Reader or Homepage
Add to My Yahoo!
Add to My AOL

Field Notes
in your Inbox

Enter your email address to get our new post everyday.

September 09, 2009

Vermont Hunting Accident Will Go To Trial

By Dave Hurteau

From WCAX News:

A plea deal has fallen apart for a Georgia, Vt., man charged with manslaughter for a hunting accident.

Thirty-nine-year-old Timothy Madden has been awaiting trial for shooting his best friend David Jenkins while the pair were deer hunting in Milton in 2007. . . Madden rejected an initial plea deal in June that would have required him to spend a year in jail. Now if he's convicted Madden could spend up to 15 years in prison.

 

Comments (46)

Top Rated
All Comments
from Bryan01 wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Sometimes you can sympathize with someone who accidently shot a friend or relative because it truly was an accident and you can see how one slip-up by a decent person resulted in a horrible tragedy. This does not appear to be that situation. From one of the earlier newspaper articles:

Police say Madden fired two shots from 100 yards just before sundown after he failed to properly identify a target that appeared to be crawling behind a fallen tree according to his 3-ex scope.

"The affidavit references that he thought he was firing at a coyote. In fact, he stated after he fired his first shot uh whatever it was it's down," said Chittenden County Prosecutor T.J. Donovan.

+5 Good Comment? | | Report
from j-johnson17 wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Sounds like this case could get a little ugly... Hopefully the anti-hunters don't get a hold of it and make it into something worse. It doesn't sound like a good situation wither way.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from seadog wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

If he really shot at something moving that he couldn't identify, he should have taken the year in jail. If those are the facts, he deserves more.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Elmer Fudd wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

he should have accepted the plea bargain. That's manslaughter.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Kim wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

This guy should take his medicine. My question is this guy is being prosecuted why wasn't Cheney? Both failed the first rule of hunting,"Always make sure of your target before squeezing the trigger". If you are not sure of your target then pass. I have missed some fine bucks because I wasn't positive. Movement does not make a positive target.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Mike Diehl wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Cheney wasn't prosecuted for three reasons:
1. He had better connections.
2. He didn't kill his hunting partner.
3. He didn't pump a few extra rounds into Whittington "just to be sure."

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from buckhunter wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

It's hard to make a logical comment with the little information provided. For sure it's sad for both families.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Something isn’t right about this accident.
2 shots?
Coyote?
Something just isn’t right?

Mike Diehl, the reason VP Dick Cheney wasn't prosecuted is simple. You just don’t slip up behind the party and silently join in. I hold the person who was shot at fault on this one!

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

NO FREE PASSES!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Kim, if someone in the party swoops in and doesn’t let the rest of the party know they are there then who is at fault. As the line moves, that area to the left, front and right has already been cleared for shooting.

At a shooting range and the line is hot, does that give anyone the right to go charging down range!

Yes, YOU MUST identify your target and beyond, but that doesn’t give a person a free pass to jump out on a crosswalk on a busy street!

As the lady said to the Phoenix Police Officer who jumped out into traffic at a crosswalk before taking her last breath,

I HAD THE RIGHT OF WAY!

GET REAL!!!!

+5 Good Comment? | | Report
from mattreney wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

fatal mistakes on both side of the gun. id like to say killing his friend was punishment enough but mansluaghter is mansluaghter and hell have to do his time its bad enough shooting at sounds or movements but shooting at them twice?

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ruckweiler wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Shut up, Diehl. Hunting accidents, and battlefield friendly fire casualties, are tragic and not fit subjects for juvenile levity. As long as there are firearms,archers, and hunting these tragedies will occur. Sadly, this incident, and many others, should give those of us who hunt pause to reflect on our habits in the field. Remember, he shot his friend and will live with that knowledge for the rest of his life, whether convicted or acquitted.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Kentucky Hunter wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

It is a sad thing to happen. but the shooter broke the number one rule he didnt identify his target beore pulling the triger .and should be held acountable accident or not that is all in op mine is he failed to check the target and should be convicted .

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from Kim wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

So cooper you're saying that with all the secret service agent around cheney no one saw this guy coming? Ridiculous! Guess the secret service guys must have been sleeping. Good thing nobody was trying to get cheney huh?And Diehl! If it was the other way around and that guy shot cheney he would be in federal prison right now. Is one life more important than another? I don't think so. I guess cheney and this guy should leave hunting to the real hunter who know the rules and abide by them. The rest will have to go to prison unless your vice president, I guess.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Ruckweiler

You speak facts of wisdom Sir while others show their ignorance to and of the facts!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Kim

What do you know about the secret service

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from JohnR wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

All of the articles related to this incident were an interesting read, especially the decision of the Vermont Supreme Court regarding hunting accidents and the broad lattitude giving state prosecutors in charging people with manslaughter for accidents.
Stats on the situation were:
1. The shooter was a parole and probation officer and was well liked.
2. He had no prior record.
3. The state is charging him because the have to.
Ruckweiler made a good statement that as long as their are people armed in the woods (with weapon of choice) there will be accidents. I am a firm believer in Murphy's Law.
This incident may have greater effects on hunting practices than we realize. It may bring into question the safety of deer drives which are a tradition in some locales. The ruling of the Vermont Supreme Court causes me to ask will there ever be a true "accident" in the future because as with any tragic incident a reasonably intelligent man can hindsight how it may have been prevented. What if one takes all the necessary precautions while hunting and someone is injured or God forbid, killed anyway?
Here is something to think about or discuss related to the subject.
I hunt at a friend's farm. We (all of us that hunt there) usually pick a day well ahead of opening day of deer season to fire our rifles and confirm that they are still zeroed. We shoot from a rest across a bean field toward the rear of his property which is about 400 yards from his house.
The woods begin at the edge of the bean field and consists of high ground for about 200 yards into the woods, then tapers to swamp for almost 3/4 of a mile, and after is really wet and ends at a river. There are so many trees there is no possibility of a bullet making it past the swamp. There is a road however, cut out of the woods that runs parallel to the field the length of his property that is 100 to 150 yards behind the field. When we are checking our rifles, we check to be sure there is no one around the area (his woods are posted).
The scenario: two kids cut school and hide out/ decide to walk through the woods and go into the woods from another location after we checked to be sure no one was there. By a slim chance one of our bullets makes it through the trees and strikes one of the kids (who are legally trespassing) and the kid dies. Is this a true accident, or manslaughter? BTW this is a hypothetical situation but is very plausible.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

JohnR
Excellent point Sir!

Another question to ponder,

How do you put the sanity into the insanity of it all?

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Paul Wilke wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

If you're shooting at an unknown target there is a good chance that you're doing something very wrong. Accidents happen, but if you are a responsible shooter you take responsibility for your actions. Sad as it may be you must answer for your shot, to your friend, his family and the law.
I've through my grandchildren that you must identify your target and its background.
A pass through or a miss extends your responsibility to the point of bullet impact.
Don't squeeze the trigger until you're sure.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from steve182 wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

I cannot imagine rifle hunting without any orange, regardless of the law. Then again, i rifle hunt in PA. The "Whatever it is, it's down" statement clearly states he did not know what he was firing at, and in my opinion shows criminal negligence. Multiple shots also blow the "accidental shooting" defense. Of course i do not believe he should spend 15 years in jail, though i do not know what the consequence should be, other than loss of hunting priveledges for life and extensive community service.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from steve182 wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

I have to admit the idea of being shot accidently while rifle hunting scares me when i think about it from time to time, but the idea of one of my hunting buddies TAKING AIM at me and firing (twice?!) never enters my mind.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Mike Diehl wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

"I hold the person who was shot at fault on this one!"

Every bit of your claim is baloney. The ONLY person at fault is the person who fires when he hasn't ascertained a clear shot.

If that's the way YOU hunt, heaven help the people around you. Was I on a grand jury reviewing a case against Shotgun Dick, I'd indict in a hearbeat.

I wouldn't hunt with ANYONE who'd blame the victim in Whittington's shooting. Anyone who thinks Dick Cheney deserves a pass needs their head examined.

The only circumstance I can see for acquitting someone of shooting someone else while hunting is if the victim was wearing camoflage.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Kim wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

COOPER
I know that their are agents assigned to President and Vice President to protect them. Now, what if the gentleman that Cheney shot was an assasin? Would they have protected Cheney? This is a moot point anyhow. The point of the whole conversation is making sure of your target before you squeeze the trigger no matter who you are. Guns are not toys and you should be aware of all your surroundings when handling one or leave them alone and take up knitting or something.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from SAND BAGGER wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

I find it interesting how individuals quickly chastise others and the next day it happens to them!

Kim you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. You never worked Governmental Security like we have so put a sock in it!

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ed J wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

I guess Mike wont't go hunting with Mr Wittington becase Mr Wittington said it was his fault.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

I find it sickening how ignorant people get yelling “OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!” and the next thing you know they are guilty of doing the same thing.

Kim, you have been watching too many spy movies and I fully agree with Sand Bagger. “you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. You never worked Governmental Security like we have so put a sock in it!”

Just because you don’t see it, doesn’t mean it isn’t there!

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Mike Diehl wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

I find it sickening that people are making excuses for that sort of chickens**t. Strangely, it's the same people who wanted Sen. Kennedy to rot in hell for driving his car off an embankment.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Mike Diehl wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

"Shut up, Diehl."

Kiss my rear end, troll.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

Looks like we will have to let the good jurors in Vermont decide this one. I've always been told that common sense is a virtue up there with those Yankee's. But some of them need driving lessons. LOL

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from Mike Diehl wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

It's the Bostonians. It comes from having too many exits packed too close together on fast moving expressways. There's nothing more fun than being in the middle of an expressway with on ramps to both the right and the left, with guys on the left trying to hit the next off-ramp 1/4 mile away on the right.

Actually that also sounds kind of like trying to enter the Capitol Building in DC. ;)

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ruckweiler wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

Diehl:
Sad that you are so juvenile that you take a hunting tragedy and turn it into a game. Hope this sort of incident never happens to you or someone you know. Then maybe reality will sink into your thick skull.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Kosmos wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

This is a real tragedy with no good outcome. One man is dead and another's life is ruined. I assume the victim wasn't wearing orange; I can't imagine this happening if he was. Wearing orange and making sure of your target are vital when in the field. This is what happens when those 2 basic rules are forgotten. Oh, Mr. Diehl, regarding Dick Cheney - let it go man, it's old news and Dick is no longer on the scene. Same with Teddy. (Drove off an embankment? It was a bridge. He let his passenger drown and swam away. She'd have been better off quail hunting with Cheney).

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

Oh yeah, Mike D.

As a gesture of respect for the late Senator Edward M. Kennedy D-MA, I have removed the bumper sticker from the white board in my workspace that reads: "I'd rather hunt with Dick Cheney than ride with Ted Kennedy". I promise that I will never speak ill of him again.

I replaced it with one that simply reads: " 01.20.2013, Change I can live with."

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from 86Ram wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

My thoughts go out to both families.

Situational Awareness and positive identification of your target!

Blaze orange during gun season and for movement from truck to stand and vise versa durin all hunting outings.

A bullet, arrow or shot can't be taken back once fired.

Hopefully he doesn't serve time for his mistake, because he's serving a life sentance already.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from 86Ram wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

WTH does ted kennedy have to do with this?

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Mike Diehl wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

Not much. I was just reflecting on the double standard. People apologizing for a fellow who broke the First Commandment of Firearms Saftey who condemn a fellow for a vehicular accident. But as WAMtn suggests, it's worth letting go.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

@ 86Ram

Sen. Kennedy has absolutely nothing to do with the subject. It was an apology of sorts to Mike Diehl for my somewhat rude banter on a previous post. Guess you had to be there.....

Any accidental loss of human life is sad, regardless of fault. Sometimes living with the guilt is punishment enough.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from JohnR wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

I suppose the moral of the story here is that when afield and hunting be very, very careful and observe ALL rules of hunting safety. A good rule of thumb is; if one is not sure whether one should take the shot or not, then one probably shouldn't!

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

I wear hunter orange if I am in the field during any season. Here in WA, bear and cougar is open during archery and muzzleloader deer & elk season when hunter orange is not required. An orange cap is a good idea anytime while walking in or out of your hunting area even for waterfowl. Never know when you might wander across someone's field of fire unnoticed by them and get sprayed down or worse. If you are duck hunting, you will get noticed ("Who is that idiot walking across there wearing the orange hat? He's gonna spook all the ducks!")

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from 86Ram wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

WVa mtnhunter no offense meant. just didn't see what it had to do with this story.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from 86Ram wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

It's an unfortunate reality that goes back to training, jumpin the gun and gotta bag somethin.
I'm sure that most of us have had close calls at times.
It affects you. Situational Awereness is heightened and more respect is given to the weapon in your hand.

I've had bullets wizz by me, I've had muzzles pointed in my direction, and Hunters walk damn near on top of my blind though I've identified myself and location vocally. That guy had the situational awareness ofa stoner. Anyways it could have benn ugly fortunately it wasn't.

You are the first line of defense and yours as well as other personnels safety.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

Situational Awareness

Now there is a concept lost on about 50% of the population at any given moment in time! It is not necessarily intelligence or experience that keeps you out of a jam most of the time. It is one's level of awareness of what the heck is going on around them that makes the difference, whether it be in the field hunting, on the freeway, or in a downtown neighborhood.

Well said 86Ram.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

@ 86Ram

No offense taken, sir. Best regards.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from steve182 wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

I'm not sure about you guys, but my hunting buddies and myself are very intolerant of poor gun handling and unsafe practices. Aside from being chastised for a lack of safety (and corrected when possible), you will not find yourself invited back, and invitations to hunt with you will be declined.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from noneedfornonsense wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

What is all this suff about " you never worked gov't security like we have" sounds like you are are just writing messages and giving yourself props get real. You are suppose to be writing a comment no arguing who is right. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Sounds like a bunch of jack #%% cops to me.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from 86Ram wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

WA Mtnhunter: glad to hear that i didn't offend.
Best regards to you as well.

Para Glider patch that's old school... haven't seen that patch since Benning.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from 86Ram wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

I really don't think there is anyone arguing best views or givin props. Just an open forum discussion and exchange of opinion.

As far as backgrounds go none of know each other from adam. Gov't Security woo hoo. Soldiers defend this nation everyday. I've gone overseas and wear a uniform everyday. So as far as security goes I think I know somethin about it. Point being don't judge because everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I have more respect for the National Gaurd and Local law enforcement. At least green suiters defend the constitution we're are sworn to by an oath of enlistment.
Anyways, there I go judging you like you did us after I said we shouldn't. I don't want to be the hypocrite guy. So as better man, I will not judge you anymore than what your words have have led me to.

-1 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

@86Ram

Yep, the Glider Patch is old school, just like me! Back in the day, the SF guys bitched when Rangers officially got the black beret (which I hated) and the 82nd Abn & 18th ABN Corps got the maroon/burgundy ones. Now everone wears a beret. The only good thing about a beret is that you could stuff it in your pocket at the NCO Club and not wrinkle it beyond repair. I never saw any utility in the service cap (aka Bus Driver Hat) either.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from 86Ram wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

WA Mtnhunter... I haven't worn a maroon one yet but a black one yes.. not worried bout wrinkles just shavin it. I prefer that ol patrol cap. Keep the sun outta my eyes. The boonie is best though. We do share two thing in common service and wings.. and maybe a blue cord as well.
All American!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from 86Ram wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

steve182:
I agree with you. Only take people you can trust in the woods. You don't want a face full of muzzle or worse.
And if someone is being unsafe you need to let em know. Based on their experience level has its own set of checks and balance though as far as chastizing or non invites.

I've introduced non hunters to shooting and firearms safety it's a repetitious cycle. Check safety muzzle awareness, breath aim squeaze etc. Both line of work and hunting.
Hunters I remind orange etc. Finger off trigger or release until ready to shoot etc. If they don't get it then they don't go until they do.
Kids are different they want to please but forget at times. Scolding doesn't help it just frustrates them so you give em a show. You ever watch R Lee Earmey or future weapons. They use live rounds and show damage. R Lee kills watermelons somethin my kid loves to see. but it's a learning point. When they're young. Reality sets in when you bring somethin that was once living home dead to be cleaned and ate.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

Yep, if it doesn't keep the rain off your head or sun outta your eyes, what good is it?

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from 86Ram wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

I appoligize for the hypocrite comment and gov't security comment I should've been more tactful.
But I stand by my comment everyone is entitled to their opinion. That's what makes us who we are and helps build on a discussion thread. There is no reason to play who's better at what game. It only causes bickering.
I also stand behind the US Military and Law Enforcement.
They sacrifice alot to keep this country, and their home states safe.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from FloridaHunter1226 wrote 4 years 17 weeks ago

Wonder how such a thing happened. Really sad to hear stories of hunting accidents and such.

0 Good Comment? | | Report

Post a Comment

from Bryan01 wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Sometimes you can sympathize with someone who accidently shot a friend or relative because it truly was an accident and you can see how one slip-up by a decent person resulted in a horrible tragedy. This does not appear to be that situation. From one of the earlier newspaper articles:

Police say Madden fired two shots from 100 yards just before sundown after he failed to properly identify a target that appeared to be crawling behind a fallen tree according to his 3-ex scope.

"The affidavit references that he thought he was firing at a coyote. In fact, he stated after he fired his first shot uh whatever it was it's down," said Chittenden County Prosecutor T.J. Donovan.

+5 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Kim, if someone in the party swoops in and doesn’t let the rest of the party know they are there then who is at fault. As the line moves, that area to the left, front and right has already been cleared for shooting.

At a shooting range and the line is hot, does that give anyone the right to go charging down range!

Yes, YOU MUST identify your target and beyond, but that doesn’t give a person a free pass to jump out on a crosswalk on a busy street!

As the lady said to the Phoenix Police Officer who jumped out into traffic at a crosswalk before taking her last breath,

I HAD THE RIGHT OF WAY!

GET REAL!!!!

+5 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Something isn’t right about this accident.
2 shots?
Coyote?
Something just isn’t right?

Mike Diehl, the reason VP Dick Cheney wasn't prosecuted is simple. You just don’t slip up behind the party and silently join in. I hold the person who was shot at fault on this one!

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from Kentucky Hunter wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

It is a sad thing to happen. but the shooter broke the number one rule he didnt identify his target beore pulling the triger .and should be held acountable accident or not that is all in op mine is he failed to check the target and should be convicted .

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from Kim wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

So cooper you're saying that with all the secret service agent around cheney no one saw this guy coming? Ridiculous! Guess the secret service guys must have been sleeping. Good thing nobody was trying to get cheney huh?And Diehl! If it was the other way around and that guy shot cheney he would be in federal prison right now. Is one life more important than another? I don't think so. I guess cheney and this guy should leave hunting to the real hunter who know the rules and abide by them. The rest will have to go to prison unless your vice president, I guess.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from Paul Wilke wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

If you're shooting at an unknown target there is a good chance that you're doing something very wrong. Accidents happen, but if you are a responsible shooter you take responsibility for your actions. Sad as it may be you must answer for your shot, to your friend, his family and the law.
I've through my grandchildren that you must identify your target and its background.
A pass through or a miss extends your responsibility to the point of bullet impact.
Don't squeeze the trigger until you're sure.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from steve182 wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

I cannot imagine rifle hunting without any orange, regardless of the law. Then again, i rifle hunt in PA. The "Whatever it is, it's down" statement clearly states he did not know what he was firing at, and in my opinion shows criminal negligence. Multiple shots also blow the "accidental shooting" defense. Of course i do not believe he should spend 15 years in jail, though i do not know what the consequence should be, other than loss of hunting priveledges for life and extensive community service.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

Looks like we will have to let the good jurors in Vermont decide this one. I've always been told that common sense is a virtue up there with those Yankee's. But some of them need driving lessons. LOL

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from j-johnson17 wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Sounds like this case could get a little ugly... Hopefully the anti-hunters don't get a hold of it and make it into something worse. It doesn't sound like a good situation wither way.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from seadog wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

If he really shot at something moving that he couldn't identify, he should have taken the year in jail. If those are the facts, he deserves more.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Kim wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

This guy should take his medicine. My question is this guy is being prosecuted why wasn't Cheney? Both failed the first rule of hunting,"Always make sure of your target before squeezing the trigger". If you are not sure of your target then pass. I have missed some fine bucks because I wasn't positive. Movement does not make a positive target.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from buckhunter wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

It's hard to make a logical comment with the little information provided. For sure it's sad for both families.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ruckweiler wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Shut up, Diehl. Hunting accidents, and battlefield friendly fire casualties, are tragic and not fit subjects for juvenile levity. As long as there are firearms,archers, and hunting these tragedies will occur. Sadly, this incident, and many others, should give those of us who hunt pause to reflect on our habits in the field. Remember, he shot his friend and will live with that knowledge for the rest of his life, whether convicted or acquitted.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from JohnR wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

All of the articles related to this incident were an interesting read, especially the decision of the Vermont Supreme Court regarding hunting accidents and the broad lattitude giving state prosecutors in charging people with manslaughter for accidents.
Stats on the situation were:
1. The shooter was a parole and probation officer and was well liked.
2. He had no prior record.
3. The state is charging him because the have to.
Ruckweiler made a good statement that as long as their are people armed in the woods (with weapon of choice) there will be accidents. I am a firm believer in Murphy's Law.
This incident may have greater effects on hunting practices than we realize. It may bring into question the safety of deer drives which are a tradition in some locales. The ruling of the Vermont Supreme Court causes me to ask will there ever be a true "accident" in the future because as with any tragic incident a reasonably intelligent man can hindsight how it may have been prevented. What if one takes all the necessary precautions while hunting and someone is injured or God forbid, killed anyway?
Here is something to think about or discuss related to the subject.
I hunt at a friend's farm. We (all of us that hunt there) usually pick a day well ahead of opening day of deer season to fire our rifles and confirm that they are still zeroed. We shoot from a rest across a bean field toward the rear of his property which is about 400 yards from his house.
The woods begin at the edge of the bean field and consists of high ground for about 200 yards into the woods, then tapers to swamp for almost 3/4 of a mile, and after is really wet and ends at a river. There are so many trees there is no possibility of a bullet making it past the swamp. There is a road however, cut out of the woods that runs parallel to the field the length of his property that is 100 to 150 yards behind the field. When we are checking our rifles, we check to be sure there is no one around the area (his woods are posted).
The scenario: two kids cut school and hide out/ decide to walk through the woods and go into the woods from another location after we checked to be sure no one was there. By a slim chance one of our bullets makes it through the trees and strikes one of the kids (who are legally trespassing) and the kid dies. Is this a true accident, or manslaughter? BTW this is a hypothetical situation but is very plausible.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from steve182 wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

I have to admit the idea of being shot accidently while rifle hunting scares me when i think about it from time to time, but the idea of one of my hunting buddies TAKING AIM at me and firing (twice?!) never enters my mind.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Kim wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

COOPER
I know that their are agents assigned to President and Vice President to protect them. Now, what if the gentleman that Cheney shot was an assasin? Would they have protected Cheney? This is a moot point anyhow. The point of the whole conversation is making sure of your target before you squeeze the trigger no matter who you are. Guns are not toys and you should be aware of all your surroundings when handling one or leave them alone and take up knitting or something.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from SAND BAGGER wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

I find it interesting how individuals quickly chastise others and the next day it happens to them!

Kim you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. You never worked Governmental Security like we have so put a sock in it!

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from steve182 wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

I'm not sure about you guys, but my hunting buddies and myself are very intolerant of poor gun handling and unsafe practices. Aside from being chastised for a lack of safety (and corrected when possible), you will not find yourself invited back, and invitations to hunt with you will be declined.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from noneedfornonsense wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

What is all this suff about " you never worked gov't security like we have" sounds like you are are just writing messages and giving yourself props get real. You are suppose to be writing a comment no arguing who is right. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Sounds like a bunch of jack #%% cops to me.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Elmer Fudd wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

he should have accepted the plea bargain. That's manslaughter.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from mattreney wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

fatal mistakes on both side of the gun. id like to say killing his friend was punishment enough but mansluaghter is mansluaghter and hell have to do his time its bad enough shooting at sounds or movements but shooting at them twice?

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

I find it sickening how ignorant people get yelling “OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!” and the next thing you know they are guilty of doing the same thing.

Kim, you have been watching too many spy movies and I fully agree with Sand Bagger. “you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. You never worked Governmental Security like we have so put a sock in it!”

Just because you don’t see it, doesn’t mean it isn’t there!

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

Oh yeah, Mike D.

As a gesture of respect for the late Senator Edward M. Kennedy D-MA, I have removed the bumper sticker from the white board in my workspace that reads: "I'd rather hunt with Dick Cheney than ride with Ted Kennedy". I promise that I will never speak ill of him again.

I replaced it with one that simply reads: " 01.20.2013, Change I can live with."

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Mike Diehl wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

Not much. I was just reflecting on the double standard. People apologizing for a fellow who broke the First Commandment of Firearms Saftey who condemn a fellow for a vehicular accident. But as WAMtn suggests, it's worth letting go.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from JohnR wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

I suppose the moral of the story here is that when afield and hunting be very, very careful and observe ALL rules of hunting safety. A good rule of thumb is; if one is not sure whether one should take the shot or not, then one probably shouldn't!

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

I wear hunter orange if I am in the field during any season. Here in WA, bear and cougar is open during archery and muzzleloader deer & elk season when hunter orange is not required. An orange cap is a good idea anytime while walking in or out of your hunting area even for waterfowl. Never know when you might wander across someone's field of fire unnoticed by them and get sprayed down or worse. If you are duck hunting, you will get noticed ("Who is that idiot walking across there wearing the orange hat? He's gonna spook all the ducks!")

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Mike Diehl wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Cheney wasn't prosecuted for three reasons:
1. He had better connections.
2. He didn't kill his hunting partner.
3. He didn't pump a few extra rounds into Whittington "just to be sure."

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

NO FREE PASSES!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Ruckweiler

You speak facts of wisdom Sir while others show their ignorance to and of the facts!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Mike Diehl wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

"I hold the person who was shot at fault on this one!"

Every bit of your claim is baloney. The ONLY person at fault is the person who fires when he hasn't ascertained a clear shot.

If that's the way YOU hunt, heaven help the people around you. Was I on a grand jury reviewing a case against Shotgun Dick, I'd indict in a hearbeat.

I wouldn't hunt with ANYONE who'd blame the victim in Whittington's shooting. Anyone who thinks Dick Cheney deserves a pass needs their head examined.

The only circumstance I can see for acquitting someone of shooting someone else while hunting is if the victim was wearing camoflage.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ed J wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

I guess Mike wont't go hunting with Mr Wittington becase Mr Wittington said it was his fault.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Mike Diehl wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

I find it sickening that people are making excuses for that sort of chickens**t. Strangely, it's the same people who wanted Sen. Kennedy to rot in hell for driving his car off an embankment.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Mike Diehl wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

"Shut up, Diehl."

Kiss my rear end, troll.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Mike Diehl wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

It's the Bostonians. It comes from having too many exits packed too close together on fast moving expressways. There's nothing more fun than being in the middle of an expressway with on ramps to both the right and the left, with guys on the left trying to hit the next off-ramp 1/4 mile away on the right.

Actually that also sounds kind of like trying to enter the Capitol Building in DC. ;)

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ruckweiler wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

Diehl:
Sad that you are so juvenile that you take a hunting tragedy and turn it into a game. Hope this sort of incident never happens to you or someone you know. Then maybe reality will sink into your thick skull.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from 86Ram wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

My thoughts go out to both families.

Situational Awareness and positive identification of your target!

Blaze orange during gun season and for movement from truck to stand and vise versa durin all hunting outings.

A bullet, arrow or shot can't be taken back once fired.

Hopefully he doesn't serve time for his mistake, because he's serving a life sentance already.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from 86Ram wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

WVa mtnhunter no offense meant. just didn't see what it had to do with this story.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from 86Ram wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

It's an unfortunate reality that goes back to training, jumpin the gun and gotta bag somethin.
I'm sure that most of us have had close calls at times.
It affects you. Situational Awereness is heightened and more respect is given to the weapon in your hand.

I've had bullets wizz by me, I've had muzzles pointed in my direction, and Hunters walk damn near on top of my blind though I've identified myself and location vocally. That guy had the situational awareness ofa stoner. Anyways it could have benn ugly fortunately it wasn't.

You are the first line of defense and yours as well as other personnels safety.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

Situational Awareness

Now there is a concept lost on about 50% of the population at any given moment in time! It is not necessarily intelligence or experience that keeps you out of a jam most of the time. It is one's level of awareness of what the heck is going on around them that makes the difference, whether it be in the field hunting, on the freeway, or in a downtown neighborhood.

Well said 86Ram.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from 86Ram wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

steve182:
I agree with you. Only take people you can trust in the woods. You don't want a face full of muzzle or worse.
And if someone is being unsafe you need to let em know. Based on their experience level has its own set of checks and balance though as far as chastizing or non invites.

I've introduced non hunters to shooting and firearms safety it's a repetitious cycle. Check safety muzzle awareness, breath aim squeaze etc. Both line of work and hunting.
Hunters I remind orange etc. Finger off trigger or release until ready to shoot etc. If they don't get it then they don't go until they do.
Kids are different they want to please but forget at times. Scolding doesn't help it just frustrates them so you give em a show. You ever watch R Lee Earmey or future weapons. They use live rounds and show damage. R Lee kills watermelons somethin my kid loves to see. but it's a learning point. When they're young. Reality sets in when you bring somethin that was once living home dead to be cleaned and ate.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

Kim

What do you know about the secret service

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

JohnR
Excellent point Sir!

Another question to ponder,

How do you put the sanity into the insanity of it all?

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Kosmos wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

This is a real tragedy with no good outcome. One man is dead and another's life is ruined. I assume the victim wasn't wearing orange; I can't imagine this happening if he was. Wearing orange and making sure of your target are vital when in the field. This is what happens when those 2 basic rules are forgotten. Oh, Mr. Diehl, regarding Dick Cheney - let it go man, it's old news and Dick is no longer on the scene. Same with Teddy. (Drove off an embankment? It was a bridge. He let his passenger drown and swam away. She'd have been better off quail hunting with Cheney).

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from 86Ram wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

WTH does ted kennedy have to do with this?

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

@ 86Ram

Sen. Kennedy has absolutely nothing to do with the subject. It was an apology of sorts to Mike Diehl for my somewhat rude banter on a previous post. Guess you had to be there.....

Any accidental loss of human life is sad, regardless of fault. Sometimes living with the guilt is punishment enough.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

@ 86Ram

No offense taken, sir. Best regards.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from 86Ram wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

WA Mtnhunter: glad to hear that i didn't offend.
Best regards to you as well.

Para Glider patch that's old school... haven't seen that patch since Benning.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

@86Ram

Yep, the Glider Patch is old school, just like me! Back in the day, the SF guys bitched when Rangers officially got the black beret (which I hated) and the 82nd Abn & 18th ABN Corps got the maroon/burgundy ones. Now everone wears a beret. The only good thing about a beret is that you could stuff it in your pocket at the NCO Club and not wrinkle it beyond repair. I never saw any utility in the service cap (aka Bus Driver Hat) either.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from 86Ram wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

WA Mtnhunter... I haven't worn a maroon one yet but a black one yes.. not worried bout wrinkles just shavin it. I prefer that ol patrol cap. Keep the sun outta my eyes. The boonie is best though. We do share two thing in common service and wings.. and maybe a blue cord as well.
All American!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

Yep, if it doesn't keep the rain off your head or sun outta your eyes, what good is it?

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from 86Ram wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

I appoligize for the hypocrite comment and gov't security comment I should've been more tactful.
But I stand by my comment everyone is entitled to their opinion. That's what makes us who we are and helps build on a discussion thread. There is no reason to play who's better at what game. It only causes bickering.
I also stand behind the US Military and Law Enforcement.
They sacrifice alot to keep this country, and their home states safe.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from FloridaHunter1226 wrote 4 years 17 weeks ago

Wonder how such a thing happened. Really sad to hear stories of hunting accidents and such.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from 86Ram wrote 4 years 31 weeks ago

I really don't think there is anyone arguing best views or givin props. Just an open forum discussion and exchange of opinion.

As far as backgrounds go none of know each other from adam. Gov't Security woo hoo. Soldiers defend this nation everyday. I've gone overseas and wear a uniform everyday. So as far as security goes I think I know somethin about it. Point being don't judge because everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I have more respect for the National Gaurd and Local law enforcement. At least green suiters defend the constitution we're are sworn to by an oath of enlistment.
Anyways, there I go judging you like you did us after I said we shouldn't. I don't want to be the hypocrite guy. So as better man, I will not judge you anymore than what your words have have led me to.

-1 Good Comment? | | Report

Post a Comment

bmxbiz-fs