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Please Put Bigfoot on the Endangered Species List

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May 28, 2010

Please Put Bigfoot on the Endangered Species List

By Chad Love

Field&Stream.com has many readers, and naturally the editors get a lot of mail. Some of it offers praise or suggestions. Some of it offers criticism and anger. And sometimes - every once in a great while - some of it broaches subjects and asks questions so profound we feel compelled to share with readers. Such is the case with this letter (portions of which are published below) from one Odie Ellis.

Mr Ellis, it seems, wants the federal government to list Bigfoot under the Endangered Species Act. No, really.

Why Bigfoot should be placed on the Endangered Species List:

This is a very important matter indeed which needs addressing, and your help would be greatly appreciated. I am drafting this letter in an effort to garner your support on a topic to which I beseech to you would be a monumental issue indeed. I implore you to not take this matter lightly, it is one that will set an example for years to come and will undeniably set the standard on how all species will make their way to this most sacred of documents pertaining to the continuity of any genus.

I am not trying in no way debate this beings existence; I am simply attempting to protect this animal’s right to the continuity of its species if it in fact does exist. I have checked the list and have found that this animal is not recorded as an endangered species, I do not know if this is an oversight, or simply just apathy. But I would like to inform you that at current there are species of animal who are on the list at which we do not currently have confirmation of still existing. Case in point The Amargosa Vole, a rodent whose current existence is undetermined, who possibly may at this very moment be extinct along with countless others...

...I have heard tales of hunters firing upon un-identified animals thinking they may be bagging the big guy, later only to discover it was nothing more than a moss covered stump beside a creek; imagine if that was your son or daughter sitting there in tree camo. I know of individuals who have spent literally thousands of dollars tracking and attempting to catch this elusive creature, should its right to survive in its own environment not be protected?

...The biggest problem I could possibly see in placing this animal on the Endangered Species List would be the five minutes out your busy schedule it would take to do so, not counting the ink that would be wasted to record his name. Besides would it not be worth the effort to do this simply in an effort to save some poor un-knowing camper from one day falling victim to the hands of someone who wants to be glorified by bringing home the ultimate trophy?

Currently I do not know if Bigfoot physically exist or not, but I do know that his image exists in the hearts and minds of millions; I know this from cartoons, movies, sculptures, magazines, and virtually any other outlet to which someone can present their theory, if there are a couple out there I would not want to look them in the eye and tale them they do not have the right to live simply because the rest of society does not believe in their existence. It is not our decision to determine what species survives, but it is our responsibility to protect said species if we have the ability to do so, we should not do this because we are trying to prove his existence, but because if he does exists it is the right thing to do.

Your thoughts? Have at it...

Comments (61)

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from suburban bushwacker wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Strangely he has a point, strangely.

Some clever tourist board could probably spin this one into thousands of dollars of free advertising, and give us a laugh into the bargain.

SBW

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from Sharkfin wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

I agree, this would probably also stop the harassment by beef jerky eating pranksters. If bigfoot wants a ride give him a ride. Don't put shaving cream in his hand and tickle his nose, he's endangered.

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from Cgull wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Sounds good. If by chance there is a small group of these critters surviving and hidding behind tree they deserve protection. As noted from past threads, some would shoot on sight. Save the sasquatches!

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from MLH wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Uh, don't you have to verify somethings existence before you can call it endangered ... or even extinct?

And what about the chupacabra? And the New Jersey Devil? And unicorns, griffins, vampires, werewolves, and Leprechauns? All mythological creatures should demand equal rights.

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from huntenthusiest wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

And don't forget our friend at LochNess.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from woodsmanj35 wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Give me a break!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from jakenbake wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

huntenthusiest - we can't help Nessie because our laws don't reach Scotland ;)

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from Pacific Hunter wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

That's a great idea, then, since we don't know what his habitat requirements are, we can consider any type of use of anything a "TAKE" as defined in the endagered species act. Secondly this will most certainly prevent those ignorant hunters from shooting at unsuspecting campers for fear of being in violation of the endagered species act. He really drives home the point with his Armagosa Vole comparison, I mean just because we actually have a specimen of the Armagosa Vole for comparison doesn't mean we can't use a hypothetical specimen for grounds of listing. This guy is brilliant, maybe he can run for President in the next election.

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from Mike Plotner wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

very...... intersting

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from Jere Smith wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

SHARKFIN, ARE YOU THE AUSSIE THAT USED TO POST ON kITCO?

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Beekeeper wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Yes, and that would be yet another reason to lock people of out the National Forest Lands or the Pacific North West...

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from shane wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

This touches on my dilemma - I am sick of all the fuzzy photos and film clips, I want real proof. So in my head I think that I would shoot a bigfoot on sight just to end the speculation. But it's more than likely a dude in a suit, so I have to hold my fire.

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from Bella wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

It seems to me that a whole lotta hunters ain't brought in a Bigfoot trophy yet, so putting the critter (or fellow hominid) onto a list that makes it illegal to hunt may be a moot point. Plainly Bigfoot is really good at avoiding us, thus far and a lot of anecdotal evidence suggests that not only aren't there Bigfoot like critter sightings all over the USA, but that on occasion we may need protecting from them! Not that there has been even one death attributed in modern times to Bigfoot,nor have any Bigfoot that have been shot and recovered in common public knowledge. The First Peoples have many tales of Sasquatch, Windigo and other creatures and why they shouldn't be messed with.
I might suggest that first somebody shoot one, or find other indisputable evidence before we leap to the conclusion that they fit the criteria of the endangered species list, but this then is the difficulty of approaching the issue through the lens of the endangered species act. If these are actually sentient cousins of genus Homo, they qualify not as animals, but as persons in their own right, and then thusly being due the rights of any other human type citizen. They are plainly smart, if in a different way then Homo Sapiens, anecdotal evidence suggests they have a complex social structure as well as a keen attunement to their environment. If we look at them through the lens of Anthropology, then what we need is a Jane Goodall or a Dianne Fossey to gain trust and interact with them as was done with chimps and mountain gorillas.
But likely they know far more about us than we know about them, and Sasquatch hasn't shown any desire to get to know us better yet.
I would hope that anybody in the habitat of Sasquatch, on encountering such a rare and wonderful being, would shoot only if attacked and otherwise behave respectfully towards the True King of the Woods.
It is like the fictional Ents, They'd rather not be bothered, and they are likely hard to rile up, but don't get 'em angry whatever you do.

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from nwild wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Nessie is smart and resourceful. I recomend a slot limit. Ha!Ha!

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from steve182 wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

I saw a show the other night where these Yeti hunters/trackers held a small rock that they claimed Yeti threw at the roof of their cabin as proof of his existence. Oddly enough the 20 trail and spy cams surrounding the place caught no images. If putting him on the List will end the practice of self-promoting wackos claiming to be on the trail of Bigfoot,... by all means.

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from franklin wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

yeah right !!!!

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from Bella wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

I've seen a lot of "tv" evidence including nests, feces, hair, footprints and other markings. The anecdotal evidence is far more convincing and testimonials of sightings often come from persons like police officers in positions of trust and responsibility. Of course I'd have to see Bigfoot myself in order to be totally convinced. On the other hand I have several aquaintances who I secretly suspect are the result of secret Bigfoot interbreeding programs they are soo huge and hairy!

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from AJMcClure wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Whatever Bella, I long for a bigfoot rug, to one up the bourgeoisie, but on the other hand I might end up tagging a hairy uncle with his shirt off.

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from Tomahawk wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

I grew up in a hunting and fishing family. I am a crack shot with any firearm. I have spent hundreds of hours in the remote forests of northern MN. I have believed in Bigfoot since I was a kid and saw the Patterson film of a female Sasquatch in Northern California. It is not a man in a suit.
I have seriously hunted Biggie for the past 5 years since strange occurances on my land near the Boundary Waters. I belong to a large, professional Bigfoot hunting organization. You do not hunt Biggie perse, you present yourself and he decides if he will bless you with an encounter. As a woman,we are less threatening to Sasquatch and more interesting to them and as a result I have had some very interesting experiences.
I have seen trails made by them that are groomed ten feet off the ground, footprints with dermal ridges / toe prints, huge fecal piles that were not bear or wolf, etc. I am a good tracker and know the difference between bear tracks and Bigfoot. We have seen so much secondary evidence that we don't even collect it anymore. I have seen bears knock over large saplings but never seen them snap 5 inch thick trees 7 feet off the ground and toss them 30 yards in an intimidation display as I have with Biggie. I have heard their lonely calls and moans in the deepest night, woodknocks and have actually smelled them on the breeze - they smell like rotten eggs. I am a Behavior Analyst by background and perhaps bring a different perspective to our research.
At first, I admit I wanted to shoot one to prove their existence, but after partners observed them laying on the ground behind structure and peeking out from behind to peer at us, after terrifying us with intimidation displays that didn't drive us away, I realized that they were gentle, passive creatures that were as afraid of us and we they. After monitoring us for quite a while, they decided that were we harmless and resumed their normal activity of hunting and eating moles and mice. They are omnivores like bears and us and will eat anything available. In winter, they seem to eat predominantly deer livers and geese for the nutrients and fat.
I don't care now if they are ever proven to exist as it will only mean their demise. They are a magnificent creature that has eluded man for millenia and the last thing we and they need is a bunch of idiots shooting up the peaceful forest trying to kill one.

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from hunterw wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Bigfoot has been observered in its many versions (yeti in the Himalays, etc.) for centuries, up to current times. It is always reported as a large potentially aggressive entity. There is no valid evidence of an example ever being caught or killed. Assuming it exists, it isn't known whether it is an animal, some unkown form of human or something else entirely. Whatever it is, it seems that it is very successful at survival, faring better than many other species of animal (if that is what it is) in any regard.

So, it can be classified as an endangered or extinct species - why?? I see where the author is attempting to go, but this end up defying logic. Also, on the off chance it is an unknown form of human it is protected by law just like you and I are protected. (ie, Since no one knows - don't shoot at it unless you can clearly show it was threatening your life. What if you finally bag it and the autopsy shows it is human? The hunter is really up a creek!)

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from Tomahawk wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Part of the problem of discovering unknown creatures is the ridicule one gets. For over 20 years I hid my interest in the subject of Bigfoot as a dear friend laughed at me when I admitted I was a believer. If you look at some of the jokers on this blog, one can see why. I was hurt deeply by my friend's ridicule.
But if one has a thorough education, one would know that throughout Man's developement from tree-living primates to up-right savana walking pre-humans, one would understand that at any given time throughout that history, there have been multiple hominid species walking the Earth at the same time. Many branches of up-right walking apes also walked with man and died out along the human evolutionary trail. Mind you, these were apes walking along-side man. They have been there with us for millions of years so in theory, they should still be with us now. The last known up-right walking ape died out 50 thousand years ago - a mere hiccup in time. Who's to say that some clever creature managed to remain hidden from man in recent years.
Native Africans knew and hunted great apes for food for thousands of years, yet the gorilla was only "discovered" by Europeans in the past century or so.
Native Americans have known about the Sasquatch in America for thousands of years. In the general region of Lake Superior alone there are over 200 native place names named for Bigfoot-like animals. They are sacred creatures to them and have been respected and feared as they have one foot in both worlds - the animal and human world.
More and more as the evidence continues to mount, the scientific community has begun to take a second look. Some are quite vocal, as many others stand quietly, not wishing to be ridiculed and critiqued by their peers; it is a career death sentence.
It is my hope that there are other hunting enthusiasts - especially bow hunters, who are willing to cite their own unusual experiences or sightings in this blog for our education.

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from cmadawg wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

I get what the guy is getting at, and Tomahawk too. Butalthough the evidence does support it, there has got to be a body. And it should be alive. Tranqulizers may nto be ethical, but I think that would finally solve the debate for good.

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from kyka1865 wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

I can' say that I beleive in bigfoot, though I suppose it is entirely possible. I will say that the letter is well written and does have a few valid points as do Tomahawks comments. I had some anthro teachers who would argue against this vehemently though.

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from Tomahawk wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Thank you.
I think that is the idea.
We are hoping to find enough scientific interest to fund a live capture, but when you think of the kind of equipment required to draw in and capture one of these clever creatures at night successfully without someone getting killed it becomes quite a task indeed. We can find them and sometimes keep their interest but as soon as we bring in anything major, they would vanish and be long gone. If you carry a firearm, they must be able to smell it or see it and stay away. I, myself, only carry a very large hunting knife. And we must not use white light of any kind as they will stay away. We work completely in the dark and only use infra-red for emergencies and to change batteries in recording devises.
Consider nerves of steel to go out in the pitch dark luring in creatures reportedly seen to grow to a height of 9 or 10 feet for a large male with only a knife. They are not happy we are there and often will have a violent tantrum (intimidation display) in an attempt to get us to leave. They are incredibly strong and if they fear for their lives or family, could kill easily, though I doubt that is their usual nature. They seem to live in small groups or perhaps pairs and if one is in trouble I have no doubt another will try to distract or come to the rescue of the other. I would, wouldn't you?
But you need to know that there are reports of hunters shooting them, wounding or killing them. I have read reports of two kills by hunters who kept quiet about it as they were ridiculed. So they only have spoken of it to a small group of people who would take them seriously. I investigated reports for a short while and it does not take long to weed out the fake ones or jokes. But there are those precious few that deserve investigation.
I know the TV shows can seem a joke but they serve a purpose - keeping public interest and bringing forth new evidence from reports and less intrusive expeditions. As I said before, you don't hunt Biggie, you can stumble upon him by accident or he finds you.

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from AJMcClure wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Trail cameras have a good chance at taking a picture if there are any active unknown upright mammals.

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from countitandone wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

OK, I've seen the bigfoot signs placed by WSDOT(Washington State Department of Transportation)on the North Cascades Highway, State Route 20, where the road bisects the Pacific Crest Trail. Have you?

And I have a trail cam still of "something" walking upright, hairy with long arms and red eyes. We had a thread going about the weirdest thing you've ever seen on your trail cam about 3 weeks ago. I did happen to mention this then.

Also, I've stayed in Six River country, Northern CA, and witnessed the destruction of river side cabins caused by large boulders thrown by "someone" with unbelieveable strength.

Let's "detain" one of these Yeti, Sasquatch, Bigfoot or whatever, long enough to document their existence. Then and only then should we place such a creature on the government's endangered species, and not before.

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from DStrope wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

in Addison NY, as kids we would go camping and stuff and we would hear what you called Big Foot,never saw!!!! we called him "Catman" their around!!!!

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from Tomahawk wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Oh yes! They will chuck rocks and trees at you. I wouldn't want a bowling ball sized boulder buzz my head.
I had something charge me through the woods in the dark making one hell of a racket and it sounded like a large herd of elk stampede and it scared the crap out of me but nothing came out of the woods and it suddenly stopped / stayed within the tree line. I grabbed my 12 gauge loaded with buck shot and patroled the edged of the tree-line and I could hear it walking on 2 legs just out of range of my 'coon light. I put the gun away. It stayed for hours while we sat around the camp-fire. At one point early on it approached very close and started snapping twigs so I strapped on my Redhawk, got cocky and it backed off but still paced back and forth the rest of the night at a distance that it felt safe. It remained perfectly down-wind and would adjust its location each time the wind would shift slightly. It never made a sound other than the loud twig snapping but I could hear it pacing on 2 feet until we went to bed hours later. Nothing further occurred after that. I don't know what it was but subsequent experiences suggest that it was an intimidation display. It was a warm fall night with a stiff wind from the south. Our land is surrounded by state and paper co land. They had recently clear-cut an area up the hill and to the south of us - where the intruder had come from.
As a side note, the county sheriff used the logging road entrance to our land as a road-kill dump. There were piles of road-killed deer lying all around. I would check for sign around it each time we went up to see what was eating and saw bear, cougar, wolf tracks and little varmints that cleaned up after.
But I started to find fresh carcasses that were stripped of their hides in one piece. Never saw that before. I came upon a fresh carcass that was still whole which appeared to have been held by the head and the fur/skin grabbed at the throat and ripped / pulled down in one whole piece turning inside out as it went and then was laid in a pile as if just dropped straight down. It was one whole de-nuded hide completely in tact with the fur inside and skin out-side. No cutting or bite marks anywhere - only seemed "pulled" away from the ankles and throat.
Has anyone else seen anything like that from a known animal? I don't think they were poached as the loins were still intact.
I think I would need a block and tackle to do that to a deer / hide.
Found 3 deer hides at different times just like this prior to the above described incident.

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from Tomahawk wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Ooops! I meant the clear-cut (and intruder) were to the north. Sorry!

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from Kabius wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Tomahawk, I'll give you the benefit of taking your word and assuming that you're not just a crackpot telling stories to amuse yourself. The stories you tell of Sasquatch behavior are intriguing and would fit in well with descriptions of the known behavior of other large ape species like the gorilla. But, if you claim to have seen huge piles of feces, then why aren't those samples being brought in for analysis at a university? This is precisely the sort of concrete physical evidence that is required for the scientific community to even begin to take the idea of North American apes seriously.

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from Tomahawk wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Thanks again.
They have been.
Numerous specimens have been analyzed and they come back "unknown primate" if DNA is found or are identified as another known animal.
Unfortunately we don't have an identified sasquatch specimen(DNA)to compare it to and only will when one is caught or killed.

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from Kabius wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Where and when were these tests performed, and by whom? Where can interested parties see the results of these tests?

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from Tomahawk wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

To be honest, I have heard news reports, TV shows and I know the org I belong to have many reports / evidence that is not shared with the public. It is kept for serious researchers, scientists, the org or by the people who have found it. All items of evidence belong to the researcher who finds it. Some don't share anything unless they get $ out of it which I think is rediculous at best and possibly bogus. We have all seen the lying idiots that want to make a name for themselves. But I also have heard the argument that the researcher has spent many thousands of dollars for their equipment, which is true, and want to re-coup some of their costs. We are just regular people who work fulltime and hunt Biggie in our spare time. Also, so many researchers are so far beyond "proving" anything that its funny. The whole experience seems to morph into something completely different.
Perhaps you might Google "Bigfoot DNA evidence" and weed through the results which will be mixed.
By the way, you guys are great! Wonderful questions and discussion.

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from iHEARTbigfoot wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Mr. Ellis we support you! If you want to see big foot on the endangered species list please join our facebook cause at

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=123764460990885

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from steve182 wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

He may indeed exist, and if so, I think he should be left the hell alone. If he wanted found, he'd be found.

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from Minnow75 wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

I agree! Put it on the endangered list, after all...if one is found, captured or killed it would NEED to be protected just from the mob of idiots going out to try to score a 'trophy'. There are many animals currently on the endangered species list who are not even confirmed to be in existance any more.

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from Kabius wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Tomahawk, I appreciate your input on this, and I'd be interested in finding out more about the organization you belong to, and what methods you employ. However, the idea of evidence being "kept secret" flies in the face of all logic when it comes to presenting Sasquatch to the scientific community, and to the general public, as an actual living entity rather than just a myth. Anybody with any training in the hard sciences will tell you that "evidence" in the form of anecdotes, or "TV News Reports" or "some guy says he has proof", are the reasons why Bigfoot remains, for the most part, a punchline. These things simply don't stand up to even the slightest scrutiny. As one who has had a life-long fascination with this topic (and I am hopeful that one day conclusive physical evidence will be brought to light which irrefutably establishes the existence of these creatures, whatever they are) I say it is long past the time when any corroborating evidence, including "unknown primate" DNA test results, be "kept hidden" from the general public for any reason. Even if a living Sasquatch (or a dead one, for that matter) is never dragged into a laboratory, just the establishment of secondary evidence - hair, fecal matter, predation, habitat, etc. - would be enough to give credence to the idea that these creatures exist. And based on that, they could be put on the endangered species list. Kylebob5706@sbcglobal.net

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from Tomahawk wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Exactly.
Unfortunately, every 'Squatcher out there has there own ideas about how one goes about hunting them - huge debate and often conflict between groups that believe in killing one and those who don't.
But I don't think anyone is with-holding the find of the century.
Collecting samples that do not contain flesh or fresh blood may not contain DNA that is measurable.
It is almost impossible to get DNA from a feces sample.
If the hair does not contain the follicle, fell out naturally, there is nothing to test. One can compare it to known samples and describe its characteristics but that is about it.
I don't agree with some in the org who may be a computer genius but can't tell the difference between a tree and a horse. I don't have time for that crap and have no energy for it. One can become disillusioned easily.
And remember, not everyone thinks he should be found by main-stream science. I am one. Think what they would do to him - I wouldn't wish that on my worse enemy let alone such an incredible creature as he.
And I don't wish to be viewed as a "self-promoting wacho" when we all know they exist.
There are many organizations you can contact over the net. Look around and find one that feels comfortable.
Look for data bases of reports and information.
Thank you for taking me seriously and listening. I am just a nobody in an org with some very experienced people I am not worthy of even touching their feet.

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from OrangeNeckInNY wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Putting a creature, whose existence hasn't been proven yet, on the endangered species list is akin to banning bullets whose calibers haven't been invented yet. It's stupid and it sets a wider precedent for these morons to put anything they wish on whatever list they come up with.

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from Sharkfin wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Moishe, nope, I'm from SC, been here most of my life. Born in Charlotte, NC.

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from Bella wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Awesome Tomahawk! Sounds like the Jane Goodall/ Dianne Fossey model is well in process. I appreciate the "go-into-the-woods-with-only-a-big-knife" approach, I often venture alone into my own woods with "just a knife" myself. I can believe that they are shy, and canny as well. I admire you for the work you have plainly done already and may you be part of the breakthrough in Human/Sasquatch understanding that is inevitable should meaningful interactions with Bigfoot occur. Good Luck, where can I keep respectful tabs on your progress?

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from skykomishsteelheader wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Isn't odie the name of the dumb dog in Garfield? I see a similarity between these two, they're both dumb.

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from snowman01 wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

It is an argument that will be never ending ! and it is obvious that not all agree. some day BF will probably be listed on the endangered speicies list, but not before there is absolute proof they exsist and a mush further and deeper study is done to prove what the numbers are or are not. a thing that does not have a proven exsistence can not and should not be listed. if that were to be the case peta and the S club would just have a hay day of what would and would not be listed they would try to find a way to list chickens and all farm animals before it was all said and done along with all vegtable matter and plant speicies. then whats left?
its not to hard to figure how out of hand this would or will get if a listing of things that may or may not exsist is incorperated into law.
I know for a fact that they do exsist and have wrestled with the idea of shooting one my self just to prove they exsist and for various reasons i do not know if I would but it would be a decision that would be automatic depending upon the circumstances, as premeditated could be a down fall, versious manslaughter or a lesser crime if any, as there is no law in most states or even federal to prevent the harvest of one of these creatures. but relizing they are in the catigory of an animal I am sure some day some one will harvest one if possiable. then things will change to the facts as them being worthy of listing.

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from Tomahawk wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Bella, kudos to you, too.
I thought your commments were insightful and humorous.
I was going to invite you to join-up as we need people like you; with a brain.
Women draw in Biggie quite nicely and they like to use us as "bait" with which I have no problem.
You obviously have some interest in the subject and more knowledge and related common sense than many of the other bloggers. I was pleased that some had the ability to process and comprehend what I wrote and were very respectful even if they didn't agree.
Perhaps the rude ones are just jealous and their ignorance will only help Biggie survive :O)
I realized that I never even gave an opinion on the "Endangered Species" list. I just said what I know and have experienced and how it changed me.
Biggie knows that humans only mean death to them and will remain hidden quite effectively.
But if you can control your fear and push beyond it, you just might have the experience of a lifetime.

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from muskiemaster wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

how about something real, all these tv shows find, leaves that were moved, hiar and footprints. I want one real scientist with no biased to go in and perform numerous studies on all these things and put it to rest. but then that ruins the fun of all of it and believing there's something out there that you can find and nobody else has yet.

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from Elktipper wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Skamania County Washington has not put Bigfoot on the endangered species list, but if you plan to shoot one for sport or to prove they exist there is a small deterence of a gross misdemeanor with $1000 fine and up to 1 year jail time (link attached). Not much but a step in the right direction. If you disagree with protecting Bigfoot, let's turn the table, how about open season on one of your cousins just to prove you have a cousin? I have never seen your cousin, does he or she exist?

http://www.skamaniacounty.org/Commissioners/Bigfoot%20Ordinance%201984-2...

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from snowman01 wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

These animals are extreamly knockternal Hence the red or orange color that has been seen in their eyes, from refracting light in the direction of the light source IE a flash light, car head lights etc etc. this is for one the biggest reason that they are rarly seen by people.
Yes these animals are more human like then any other ape that is knowen to exsist and they may even have a primative language or vocal stucture for communication as well as an ape like or very sub human way of communicating with other species such as humans or things that they feel may be a threat, by attempts of them trying to intimadate or scare the threat into a retreat or a defensive mode by throwing rocks and banging rocks togather and tree knocking etc etc often followed by a ligering just out of sight often making loud vocal noises and extreamly rare bluff charges just like the african mountin gorilla does.
I have experienced them first hand, and knowing more now then in years past I beleave I have had encounters with one or more during hunting trips that I had excused noises and reactions as other things. they are rare animals but far more common then people think. we all know that there are bears in the woods but how often do you see them let alone walk up on one, there are areas where you can walk right up on them and that is usually becouse of over population in a congested area. there are extreamly hard to access areas that are realativly close to roads and communitys but the locals would call you crazy if you reported seeing a BF at the edge of town. that just goes to show you that the locals can become very blind to there surroundings and how little they really get beyond the edge of town. there are many who travel so little that a trip one time a year to a larger town may be a big deal. like some of us traveling several states away or even over seas. the point is that humans are extreamly lazy and rarly if at all go into these hard to reach places unless there is a road or a horse or a 4 wheeler to help get you there.
I know of an area in Colorado that has a small number of BF and the locals are totally oblivious to them. of course most are still tucked in to bed when these animals are active at night. they would be surprised if you told them that when you drove through town at 4 in the morning that you saw an elk and 3 deer on the court house lawn grazing in peace. and a coyote carrying of the neighbors cat.
But I have had the luck of seeing a large BF that was close to 10 feet tall and some where between 800 and 1000 pounds cross a road in front of me it was the largest living thing I have seen in the wild in this country I listed a report on BFRO under MINER has early morning sighting in siverton colorado. or san juan county.
I am an avvid hunter and outdoors man and have worked a great deal of jobs that put me on the roads and highways at extreamly odd hours. and I hunt in many of the places that I have describd just becouse most people will not attempt to hunt or explore them and they are in the back yards of many of these towns. that is why the game is plentiful and the hunting is hard to do but it is extreamly rewarding just to be in these places do to the lack of desire of most to trek into them. and as you are probably begining to see that is why BF seeks out these areas to, they offer peace and security and these animals have no problem navigating these areas at all they have to master it to survive there and to be able to hunt and ambush game. they also offer an abundent amount of vegitation for them to eat and I am sure they migrate away from these areas in the extreams of winter but they may stay just as well becouse many of the game animals that are or could be a food souce stay all year.
These are just a few of my observations from being in that climate most of my life and studying and researching these animals over the years. now all that we have is strictly therory to the behaviour and actions and reports of short encounters and sightings. we have but just skimmed the surface of the investigation into these animals.
So yes I have come to the conclusion as sad as it is that one of these creatures will probably have to be eaither found dead and in a very recent manner such as from being hit by a truck or some thing or a highly unlikly situation that some one stumbles over one while hiking or hunting or an even more extreamly rare case of some one catching one alive. all are extramly poor odds of happening. it is far more likly that one will be shot and turned over to the proper athorities to be scientificly investigated that is the only way we will be able to learn what we need to know of them and at that it will take a great deal more time of investigation and study.
But the bottom line how ever it is met it is going to take a BODY of a Big Foot living or dead to make the advancments we need to learn the things we now do not know about them. and until that happens I doubt that you will see BF on the endangered species list.
further more if and when they are listed how is it going to change the use of private and public lands. will farming cease? will the use and all use of public land cease ? will we have to dismantel our towns and citys to allow more romm for BF ? where and what will happen after the fact is the scary part becouse I am sure there are a great deal of wackos out there that would take this to the extream and want every thing and more that I just mentioned. its kinda like giving back the entire south west to mexico or returning all of america back over to the american indians, it could get way out of hand and that is probably becouse of the extream reactions from peta and the S club that even if I found one dead and in good condition I my self would not allow the world to know of such a discovery and this may all ready be the case of the government doing such a thing just so the courts and the government are not tied up for decades and the masses starving becouse of the extream reaction that would be demanded from those like minded its ok for me to build my house in the forest types ! but you are not worthy.!!!!! I mhope this helps clear things up some what.?

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from snowman01 wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Elktipper I never have stated that big foot was not worty of protection, in any statment that I have made I have simply stated that a BF body is going to have to be obtained living or dead and by any means as they can not legally be listed until it is proven that such an animal even exsists . now a sample version of murduring family members is an entirly differnt situation and that is extreamly illegal every wear other then self defense ! or some thing under a castle doctrine which some states do not have so charges could still be filed for murder or manslaughter and the self defense would be used as a confession !
I see that you would not like to see one of these BF shot or killed and I think most of us feel the same way, but this is not harry and the hendersons, it is the real world and it is of my opinion that it is going to take cold hard evidence that these creatures do exsist and that it is going to have to take the body of a BF living or Dead . you need not try to equal me to a family murderer to make your point, facts are facts and I beleave most understand what it will take in the real world to prove the exsistence of these animals. Photos and video are excused as hoaxes hair samples and DNA are excused or put aside becouse they have no DNA base to compare to so the samples are excused as unknowen and every thing that is brought out about BF is met with skeptisisam or as a hoax or some one trying to make a quick buck. beleave me it ticks me off that there is a fella in silverton that runs a shop for the tourist that get off of the train that is full of BF stuff and the silverton police and sheriff will just think you are a nut if you try to explain to them that they are just in the mountins at the edge of town, to me the fella is making a quick buck and making a mockery of true sightings and the fact is, it should be a crime as to what they are doing. but it is not and it is becouse of those types THE I OWN A BIGFOOT STORE TYPES that it is going to take extream things to prove the exsistence of BF. WHEW thats alot of getting my point across !!!! thank you.

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from iron giant wrote 1 year 34 weeks ago

Putting big foot on the endangered species list before it is proven he really exists would only cause more bureaucratic red tape and give the EPA more power to restrict how land can be used. We have no idea what he lives in because over the years he's been "spotted" every where from Florida to Washington, Texas to the Great Lakes, and everywhere in between. I believe that it is possible that some large primate could be living in the wild places of North America,but I don't want more laws limiting the use of our land to be made in the name of protecting a creature that as of yet hasn't been proven to exist. We can discuss how to protect them after somebody proves they're real. However if I personally came across one while in the woods, I wouldn't hesitate to shoot it.

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from Swede BF wrote 1 year 34 weeks ago

Tomahawk! Thanks for all the information in your comments! For the past 1,5 years I´ve been reading everything I can find on the internet about BF, yetis etc. It´s an extremely fascinating subject! Here in Sweden we don´t have that many sigthings on BF, unfortunately. But we do have a few back in the 80:s, perhaps one of the Russian Almas decided to go west, escaping the communists :)

I would love to take part in such an expedition as you describe, to look for BF. How do I join? I´m a forester, hunter and a leutenant in the army. So I know my way in the forest...

I have lots of questions on the BF subject, and would be happy if you sent me an e-mail on "skog.kartor@gmail.com"

Best regards

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from Elktipper wrote 1 year 34 weeks ago

I think it is very important that we keep the use of the Endangered Species Act in perspective. By putting BF on the list we do establish a number of options that have “potential” negative consequences to private and public land ownership and its use. There is a rational legal process that needs to be followed prior to denying access to lands or altering use of private properties. Much legal debate and litigation would ensue. None of this would even start until a population and range of the species can be documented. And obviously the idea of providing preserves for BF at this point or in the near future is totally out of the question since so little is documented/known about the species.
But on the other hand we accomplish far more by protecting a creature from “open season hunting” status. I have read books, blogs, BF nets and orgs and many other articles and the action of shooting at BF is found in all the sources. People shoot at BF. People shoot at bears and hit people because they can’t tell the difference or get overly excited. Happened here two years ago in Washington when a young hunter shot a hiker mistaking her for a bear. Bad situation. We Americans worked hard to provide some form of protected status/condition for the mountain gorilla when they were discovered. It worked to some extent but their population still dwindled due to local factional struggles and poaching. BF is discovered (scientists currently are too concerned about their image and personal ridicule to admit it) and now is our chance to take the first step to protect the species. The main reason for placing BF on the list would be to provide penalties for the execution/shooting of a BF on a nationwide level (see previous post for a local solution). Studies and litigation would need to ensue in order to take the next step (if necessary) to protect individual populations of the species wherever they are “proven” to exist.
I give KUDOS to all the organizations that currently follow up on every sighting of BF and their interaction with humans. The same groups attempt scientific research and contacts with BF on a regular basis. The sheer number of people involved in establishing BF as a credible creature has grown phenomenally. I believe that these organizations have information in their private archives that would help to establish BF’s validity but they either don’t want to open themselves up to public ridicule and/or they would simply like to see some monetary gain to recoup expenses and continue their exciting journey. Jeff Meldrum wrote an awesome book laying out the science and fiction of BF and left the reader with the option of open interpretation. Our scientific community needs to step up to the plate and get funding to do some serious research. If they can get funding to study the sex life of termites, fleas and rats there should be some money to study the legendary Bigfoot!
Snowman01 my previous comment was a generalized comment not being directed at you. Sorry to those who took offense.

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from snowman01 wrote 1 year 34 weeks ago

Elk tipper I beleave that for one a BF must be proven to exsist and they must be proven to exsist in areas, so just one discovery of a BF would not give credit to the idea of a blanket of the entire USA being under the demise of the endangered species list. I am sure that once they are proven to exsist they would be given some type of protection just like the Grizzly or Bald eagle and so on . so do we call the areas that BF are not found to exsist areas that should be under protection just becouse they do not exsist there or do we just close all public lands and put severe restrictions on private property. futher more if a situation were to a rise where a person was forced to defend them selves then would that person have the right to kill a BF in self defense after they are protected.?
A lot of responsability goes with passing a protection with out what guide lines are to be followed. are laws have been raped and turned inside out by special interest groups over the last few years and this is just opening an other can of worms. I could agree to some protections for BF in areas that they are proven to exsist but as far as they roam and the vastness of their ranges would decimate all of our entire country highways would have to be shut down, dams would have to be removed all access would be cut off to all public lands except for you town park, then with the highways being shut down and removed how would grocerys gas and other life giving nessesities be delivered so then we now have people starving jobs lost and further more town and citys abandoned in mass. where does it stop it does not stop the special interest people push law suit after law suit.
how would you feel if you are now locked out of your public lands forever, for fear of giving a BF a common cold that might kill one or an other sickness that could whipe them out in areas. is it fair to close all public lands to all and forever just becouse BF MAY OR MAY NOT EXSIST ? hearing from people that BF needs protection and now with out their proven with rock hard solid evidence is foolish to list them on the endangered species list.
The transplanted wolves in the forests of Idaho are now spreading deep into wyoming oregon colorado new mexico and arizona as well as all over montana, are these trans planted wolves a direct threat to BF, who deserves to Live more and then starve to death becouse a species destroys an entire elk and deer heard how many deer and elk must disappear and there again that effects people so you know it effect BF if they use these as food sources, Who is man to play God with these creatures should the wolves be removed and eradicated to suffice the exsistence of BF. does mans lack of control of nature now benefit BF or does it Harm BF are there more BF now then 100 years ago. we can not just simply start making laws for some thing we know extreamly very little about. our population keeps growing by leaps and bounds so more farms are needed and more timber and raw materieals from mining etc etc the whole system collapses becouse of special protections for certin creatures where does it stop. how for one can a law be made not to harm some thing that may not even exsist and if we make it for big foot what about those that have smaller feet what are the specifications and guide lines of the laws to be made what if there are several different species and sub species again where does it stop the answer is I guess with the extenction of the human race as a whole. these creatures have survived far longer then man kind and will probably exsist long after we are gone so how about we prove they exsist first and then give certin protections to them not total protection to them , they are all ready trying to shut down all oil drilling becouse of this oil spill, and we are supposed to trust those in power, frankly I like hunting and fishing and camping and enjoying the out doors I am not ready to sacrifice that just becouse BF may or may not be there !!!!! are you ? people need to look at the entire picture not just the little pixel that could be a BF off in the distance.

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from Tomahawk wrote 1 year 34 weeks ago

They are everywhere like deer and I don't think they need any designated habitat set aside. If they lived in one specific spot, maybe.
But they live deep in the forest or on the edge of town - all over America and Canada.
They should be protected, no matter what. Period.
Or were you hoping to find a Bigfoot loin chop at the local grocer or high-end steak house?
Or perhaps cut off his hands and feet to hang on your wall? Or look at his human face peering at you from above the mantle?
There is enough evidence that there is a north american great ape to list it as endangered.

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from swimmerscott wrote 1 year 34 weeks ago

I am a field investigator of bigfoot reports as well as a researcher. I am also a lifelong hunter. I saw my first bigfoot in October 2005 and it was a profound, life changing event. I have since seen them four more times. So for me, it is not a matter of belief, but of knowing.

As for putting them on the endangered species list, that would be a really really bad idea. Once they are listed, forget about hunting, fishing, camping hiking, or any use of the outdoors for recreational purposes. Is that what we all want? I don't think so.

From my first hand experiences, I can say that they do quite well without our help. They are masters of their world, own the night, and are stealthy, elusive, and smart. They also won't hurt people. I know, one was within touching distance of me once.

Further, there is no way to count them. So we don't really know if they are endagered. It is arrogant as humans to think that we can "take care of them". All they need is some space. With so much of the western US in wilderness area, national forest, and closed-gate tree farms, they have plenty of room. They are reported to be in every US state, and all of Canada. They have been living among us forever, and they live quite close to human populations without being noticed. From my experience, and this is just my gut feel, they are thriving and probably increasing in population. We often see the little ones.

They definatly should not be hunted. Hunters who have had a close up view of them say they are too human to shoot. They have spoken language (sounds like japanese). Shooting one would open up the shooter to all sorts of uncharted legal territory and problems.

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from Tomahawk wrote 1 year 34 weeks ago

Nicely said, Scott!

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from snowman01 wrote 1 year 34 weeks ago

Tomahawk, I beleave that you have an impression of hunters as a veiw of the bad guy on Harry and the Henersons "La Farge" or what ever his name is.
In truth 99.9999 percent of all hunters are masters or learning to be masters of taking care of our enviroment. yes we live in civilized citys and we have a currency system for tradeing goods. But that does not fill the hunter gather needs in the human race, yes our wives enjoy shopping to fill that need but most all humans return to nature to some degree, many take photos, many go berry picking, many go camping, many go fishing,
the point is, most people respect the enviroment and what it has to offer. all of its myths mysterys and wildlife.
it is just as wrong for me to bash mountin bikers or rock climbers or bird watchers as it is for those on the other side to bash hunting ! if we as a species did not hunt we as the human race would have probably ceased to exsist long ago it is our brains that has made our bodies change to meet our needs of our enviroment and what our bodies did not provide we made tools.
where I am going with this is simple BF has adapted as well and thier nitch seems to be at night.and they seem to be the masters of the night. they are rarly seen and the do have home ranges and seem to prefer some areas but they do travel great distances as well.
I do beleave that the quickest way to prove the exsistance of them is a body. now if that is provided by a hunter is only a speculation. I do not beleave any one is wanting to go killing one for a wall hanger or chop one up to sell body parts on a street corner. and again we get into well there should be no hunting becouse some might get mistaken for a bear. I am sure there is more to that story. was the hiker dressed like a bear. or was it just a really really stupid and blind hunter ?
some people want blanket protection for BF and I have stated my opinion over and over for many reasons as to why just listing BF as an endangered species is entirly the wrong thing to do. we all ready can not drill oil in the arctic circle like anwar and the northern platue becouse it might effect the caribou migration ? and there are millions of them . so how will the listing of BF effect the use of all public and private lands.?
PEOPLE THAT WANT LAWS MADE BECOUSE IT IS THE MORAL THING OR IT WOULD MAKE MY HEART FEEL BETTER KINDA OF APPROACH IS THE WORST THING FOR EVERY THING AND EVERYBODY INVOLVED.
AN EXAMPLE, the transplantation of wolves has gotten way out of hand. they are not cute little puppy dogs for scatchen their ears when you come across one in the forest. they kill and they destroy and they are controled by starvation when they use all of their resourses which can take many decades to reproduce and rebuild its numbers, AN EXAMPLE, no hunting of black bears in new jersy and the numbers are exceeding the numbers of people in some neighborhoods and they are becoming destructive and many are starving becouse of the lack of hunting. AN EXAMPLE, cougars in california kill mountin bikers and hikers and even kill and maim at city MAlls JSUT BECOUSE OF A LAW THAT MADE IT ILLEGAL TO HUNT THEM OR KILL THEM, WHY BECOUSE SOME MORAL AND WELL MEANING PEOPLE DID NOT SEE THEM DAILY ON THEIR DRIVE TO WORK LAYING PEACFULLY IN THE PARK WITH THE DEER AND THE CHILDREN. NOW COUGARS ARE A HUGE PROBLEM AND GETTING WORSE EVERY YEAR IN CALIFORNIA.
SPEND SOME TIME CHECKING FACTS AND DO SOME HONEST RESEARCH AND I AM SURE IF YOU GIVE THINGS AN HONEST EVALUATION TO JUST PASSING A LAW BECOUSE IT MAKES SOME ONE FEEL GOOD IS TRULY THE WORST THING TO DO FOR BF AND ALL INVOLVED
AN EXAMPLE, maybe logging helps BF by clearcutting out large areas of forest and making it more open BF may have a better chance of catching a deer or a rabbit, it may even make an escape from human intrusion easier becouse they can see you coming from a farther distance?
just some things that we as man kind may not be aware of.
I know that in thick heavy timber and cover I find it easier to hunt deer and elk on the areas where power lines and pipe lines have been placed just becouse they offer a wide open veiw of what may walk out in front of me even a few hundred yards away, when in a thick forest i may have sworn there was nothing living in it. we see BF more often becouse of roads that are cut into areas and they are often seen in old areas that have been logged out and clear cut they are often seen walking on old logging roads. so here is the big quastion.
DOES MAN KIND AND OUR INTRUSIONS OF MINING , LOGGING , CONSTRUCTION , AND FARMING AND ALL THINGS DEEMED DESTRUCTIVE BY A FEW HEART FELT PEOPLE, DO THESE THINGS HELP AND AID BF AND MAKE THEIR LIVES EASIER OR HAS WHAT WE HAVE DONE DESTROYED THEM ? AS WELL AS HUNTERS LEAVING GUT PILES AND SOME TIMES WOUNDED GAME IN THE FEILDS AND MOUNTINS, DOES THIS LEAVE A FOOD SOURCE OF VAST NUTRITION FOR BF AND MANY OTHER ANIMALS ?
SO DOES HUNTING HELP AND AID BF OR DESTROY THEM. ? THESE ARE ALL VALID QUASTIONS AND SOME WOULD HAVE THE RIGHT ANSWERS, DO SOME RESEARCH AND FIELD STUDY AND THEN ASK YOUR SELF IF ALL OF THOSE WERE TO BE CEASED RIGHT THIS VERY MINUTE WOULD IT AID BF NOW AND IN THE LONG RUN OVER MANY YEARS AS THE FOREST GROWS THICK AND INPENATERABLE MEADOWS AS FOOD SOURCES DISAPPEAR THE GAME BECOMES FEWER AND LESS BECOUSE THE MEADOW ARE GONE AND THE FOREST IS TO THICK AND THE TRAILS ARE OVER GROWEN, NOW DOES THIS NOW HELP AND AID BF HAVING FEWER FOOD SOURCES OR DOES IT MAKE IT HARDER FOR THEM TO EXSIST ?
IS BF INCREASING IN NUMBERS AND POPULATION BECOUSE MAN KIND HAS AIDED THEM UNKNOWINGLY BY OUR EFFORTS TO MAKE OUR LIVES BETTER AND EASIER ?
NOW BY PASSING A LAW THAT WOULD RESTRICT A GREAT DEAL OF THE THINGS THAT JUST MAY HAVE HELPED AND AIDED BF ARE THEY NOW BEING HARMED BY BEING PUT ON THE ENDANGERED SPECIS LIST BECOUSE OF THE LACK OF MANS PRESENCE IN ALL FORMS AND PLACES AND ACTIONS,?

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from flowerchild65 wrote 1 year 34 weeks ago

ok, so the evidence for their existence is hundreds of casting of footprints found, hair samples that match no known species(and not just one sample) recordings that have been analyzed by computers that match no known species, scat the doesn't match any known species,hundreds if not thousands of eye witness reports, many by very credible persons(law enforcement,doctors,professors etc),stories by native peoples for hundreds of years and people say they dont exist. PEOPLE HAVE BEEN CONVICTED OF MURDER AND OTHER SERIOUS CRIMES ON LESS EVIDENCE ! i say they they exist( i will omit my experience with them) and should definitely be protected. just my 2 cents..namaste all

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from cosplay wrote 1 year 25 weeks ago

The anecdotal evidence is far more convincing and testimonials of sightings often come from persons like police officers in positions of trust and responsibility. Of course I'd have to see Bigfoot myself in order to be totally convinced

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from Nycflyangler wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

I've done some reading on the subject.




A hunter has claimed to have shot one, in western Canada during WW2. The spoiler was he didn't report it because he was illegally hunting for moose during the war.




http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=9552




I myself have seen something. I was driving up to my parent's place in Vermont in 1992 and was by Glastenbury Mt. on RT7 at about 3am. As I came up a rise I caught a shadowy bipedal form in my headlights for a second. It could have been a bear or the front end of a moose, but didn't seem right for either of those.




There's even an article about Bigfoot that live in the greenbelt of Staten Island in NYC.




http://www.nypress.com/article-7469-trashquatch_the-hunt-for-the-staten-...

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from sage wrote 14 weeks 3 days ago

When we lose or ignore the fact that somethings are invisible to us, it will be the downfall of mankind. The destruction of even one of these magnificant beings would be the undoing of us. I agree, put them on the endangered species list.

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from suburban bushwacker wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Strangely he has a point, strangely.

Some clever tourist board could probably spin this one into thousands of dollars of free advertising, and give us a laugh into the bargain.

SBW

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from Sharkfin wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

I agree, this would probably also stop the harassment by beef jerky eating pranksters. If bigfoot wants a ride give him a ride. Don't put shaving cream in his hand and tickle his nose, he's endangered.

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from MLH wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Uh, don't you have to verify somethings existence before you can call it endangered ... or even extinct?

And what about the chupacabra? And the New Jersey Devil? And unicorns, griffins, vampires, werewolves, and Leprechauns? All mythological creatures should demand equal rights.

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from Beekeeper wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Yes, and that would be yet another reason to lock people of out the National Forest Lands or the Pacific North West...

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from Tomahawk wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

I grew up in a hunting and fishing family. I am a crack shot with any firearm. I have spent hundreds of hours in the remote forests of northern MN. I have believed in Bigfoot since I was a kid and saw the Patterson film of a female Sasquatch in Northern California. It is not a man in a suit.
I have seriously hunted Biggie for the past 5 years since strange occurances on my land near the Boundary Waters. I belong to a large, professional Bigfoot hunting organization. You do not hunt Biggie perse, you present yourself and he decides if he will bless you with an encounter. As a woman,we are less threatening to Sasquatch and more interesting to them and as a result I have had some very interesting experiences.
I have seen trails made by them that are groomed ten feet off the ground, footprints with dermal ridges / toe prints, huge fecal piles that were not bear or wolf, etc. I am a good tracker and know the difference between bear tracks and Bigfoot. We have seen so much secondary evidence that we don't even collect it anymore. I have seen bears knock over large saplings but never seen them snap 5 inch thick trees 7 feet off the ground and toss them 30 yards in an intimidation display as I have with Biggie. I have heard their lonely calls and moans in the deepest night, woodknocks and have actually smelled them on the breeze - they smell like rotten eggs. I am a Behavior Analyst by background and perhaps bring a different perspective to our research.
At first, I admit I wanted to shoot one to prove their existence, but after partners observed them laying on the ground behind structure and peeking out from behind to peer at us, after terrifying us with intimidation displays that didn't drive us away, I realized that they were gentle, passive creatures that were as afraid of us and we they. After monitoring us for quite a while, they decided that were we harmless and resumed their normal activity of hunting and eating moles and mice. They are omnivores like bears and us and will eat anything available. In winter, they seem to eat predominantly deer livers and geese for the nutrients and fat.
I don't care now if they are ever proven to exist as it will only mean their demise. They are a magnificent creature that has eluded man for millenia and the last thing we and they need is a bunch of idiots shooting up the peaceful forest trying to kill one.

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from Cgull wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Sounds good. If by chance there is a small group of these critters surviving and hidding behind tree they deserve protection. As noted from past threads, some would shoot on sight. Save the sasquatches!

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from Tomahawk wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Part of the problem of discovering unknown creatures is the ridicule one gets. For over 20 years I hid my interest in the subject of Bigfoot as a dear friend laughed at me when I admitted I was a believer. If you look at some of the jokers on this blog, one can see why. I was hurt deeply by my friend's ridicule.
But if one has a thorough education, one would know that throughout Man's developement from tree-living primates to up-right savana walking pre-humans, one would understand that at any given time throughout that history, there have been multiple hominid species walking the Earth at the same time. Many branches of up-right walking apes also walked with man and died out along the human evolutionary trail. Mind you, these were apes walking along-side man. They have been there with us for millions of years so in theory, they should still be with us now. The last known up-right walking ape died out 50 thousand years ago - a mere hiccup in time. Who's to say that some clever creature managed to remain hidden from man in recent years.
Native Africans knew and hunted great apes for food for thousands of years, yet the gorilla was only "discovered" by Europeans in the past century or so.
Native Americans have known about the Sasquatch in America for thousands of years. In the general region of Lake Superior alone there are over 200 native place names named for Bigfoot-like animals. They are sacred creatures to them and have been respected and feared as they have one foot in both worlds - the animal and human world.
More and more as the evidence continues to mount, the scientific community has begun to take a second look. Some are quite vocal, as many others stand quietly, not wishing to be ridiculed and critiqued by their peers; it is a career death sentence.
It is my hope that there are other hunting enthusiasts - especially bow hunters, who are willing to cite their own unusual experiences or sightings in this blog for our education.

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from Tomahawk wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Thank you.
I think that is the idea.
We are hoping to find enough scientific interest to fund a live capture, but when you think of the kind of equipment required to draw in and capture one of these clever creatures at night successfully without someone getting killed it becomes quite a task indeed. We can find them and sometimes keep their interest but as soon as we bring in anything major, they would vanish and be long gone. If you carry a firearm, they must be able to smell it or see it and stay away. I, myself, only carry a very large hunting knife. And we must not use white light of any kind as they will stay away. We work completely in the dark and only use infra-red for emergencies and to change batteries in recording devises.
Consider nerves of steel to go out in the pitch dark luring in creatures reportedly seen to grow to a height of 9 or 10 feet for a large male with only a knife. They are not happy we are there and often will have a violent tantrum (intimidation display) in an attempt to get us to leave. They are incredibly strong and if they fear for their lives or family, could kill easily, though I doubt that is their usual nature. They seem to live in small groups or perhaps pairs and if one is in trouble I have no doubt another will try to distract or come to the rescue of the other. I would, wouldn't you?
But you need to know that there are reports of hunters shooting them, wounding or killing them. I have read reports of two kills by hunters who kept quiet about it as they were ridiculed. So they only have spoken of it to a small group of people who would take them seriously. I investigated reports for a short while and it does not take long to weed out the fake ones or jokes. But there are those precious few that deserve investigation.
I know the TV shows can seem a joke but they serve a purpose - keeping public interest and bringing forth new evidence from reports and less intrusive expeditions. As I said before, you don't hunt Biggie, you can stumble upon him by accident or he finds you.

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from jakenbake wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

huntenthusiest - we can't help Nessie because our laws don't reach Scotland ;)

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from Pacific Hunter wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

That's a great idea, then, since we don't know what his habitat requirements are, we can consider any type of use of anything a "TAKE" as defined in the endagered species act. Secondly this will most certainly prevent those ignorant hunters from shooting at unsuspecting campers for fear of being in violation of the endagered species act. He really drives home the point with his Armagosa Vole comparison, I mean just because we actually have a specimen of the Armagosa Vole for comparison doesn't mean we can't use a hypothetical specimen for grounds of listing. This guy is brilliant, maybe he can run for President in the next election.

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from Mike Plotner wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

very...... intersting

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from nwild wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Nessie is smart and resourceful. I recomend a slot limit. Ha!Ha!

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from Bella wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

I've seen a lot of "tv" evidence including nests, feces, hair, footprints and other markings. The anecdotal evidence is far more convincing and testimonials of sightings often come from persons like police officers in positions of trust and responsibility. Of course I'd have to see Bigfoot myself in order to be totally convinced. On the other hand I have several aquaintances who I secretly suspect are the result of secret Bigfoot interbreeding programs they are soo huge and hairy!

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from hunterw wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Bigfoot has been observered in its many versions (yeti in the Himalays, etc.) for centuries, up to current times. It is always reported as a large potentially aggressive entity. There is no valid evidence of an example ever being caught or killed. Assuming it exists, it isn't known whether it is an animal, some unkown form of human or something else entirely. Whatever it is, it seems that it is very successful at survival, faring better than many other species of animal (if that is what it is) in any regard.

So, it can be classified as an endangered or extinct species - why?? I see where the author is attempting to go, but this end up defying logic. Also, on the off chance it is an unknown form of human it is protected by law just like you and I are protected. (ie, Since no one knows - don't shoot at it unless you can clearly show it was threatening your life. What if you finally bag it and the autopsy shows it is human? The hunter is really up a creek!)

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from cmadawg wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

I get what the guy is getting at, and Tomahawk too. Butalthough the evidence does support it, there has got to be a body. And it should be alive. Tranqulizers may nto be ethical, but I think that would finally solve the debate for good.

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from kyka1865 wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

I can' say that I beleive in bigfoot, though I suppose it is entirely possible. I will say that the letter is well written and does have a few valid points as do Tomahawks comments. I had some anthro teachers who would argue against this vehemently though.

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from steve182 wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

He may indeed exist, and if so, I think he should be left the hell alone. If he wanted found, he'd be found.

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from Minnow75 wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

I agree! Put it on the endangered list, after all...if one is found, captured or killed it would NEED to be protected just from the mob of idiots going out to try to score a 'trophy'. There are many animals currently on the endangered species list who are not even confirmed to be in existance any more.

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from Bella wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Awesome Tomahawk! Sounds like the Jane Goodall/ Dianne Fossey model is well in process. I appreciate the "go-into-the-woods-with-only-a-big-knife" approach, I often venture alone into my own woods with "just a knife" myself. I can believe that they are shy, and canny as well. I admire you for the work you have plainly done already and may you be part of the breakthrough in Human/Sasquatch understanding that is inevitable should meaningful interactions with Bigfoot occur. Good Luck, where can I keep respectful tabs on your progress?

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from huntenthusiest wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

And don't forget our friend at LochNess.

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from woodsmanj35 wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Give me a break!

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from Jere Smith wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

SHARKFIN, ARE YOU THE AUSSIE THAT USED TO POST ON kITCO?

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from shane wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

This touches on my dilemma - I am sick of all the fuzzy photos and film clips, I want real proof. So in my head I think that I would shoot a bigfoot on sight just to end the speculation. But it's more than likely a dude in a suit, so I have to hold my fire.

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from Bella wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

It seems to me that a whole lotta hunters ain't brought in a Bigfoot trophy yet, so putting the critter (or fellow hominid) onto a list that makes it illegal to hunt may be a moot point. Plainly Bigfoot is really good at avoiding us, thus far and a lot of anecdotal evidence suggests that not only aren't there Bigfoot like critter sightings all over the USA, but that on occasion we may need protecting from them! Not that there has been even one death attributed in modern times to Bigfoot,nor have any Bigfoot that have been shot and recovered in common public knowledge. The First Peoples have many tales of Sasquatch, Windigo and other creatures and why they shouldn't be messed with.
I might suggest that first somebody shoot one, or find other indisputable evidence before we leap to the conclusion that they fit the criteria of the endangered species list, but this then is the difficulty of approaching the issue through the lens of the endangered species act. If these are actually sentient cousins of genus Homo, they qualify not as animals, but as persons in their own right, and then thusly being due the rights of any other human type citizen. They are plainly smart, if in a different way then Homo Sapiens, anecdotal evidence suggests they have a complex social structure as well as a keen attunement to their environment. If we look at them through the lens of Anthropology, then what we need is a Jane Goodall or a Dianne Fossey to gain trust and interact with them as was done with chimps and mountain gorillas.
But likely they know far more about us than we know about them, and Sasquatch hasn't shown any desire to get to know us better yet.
I would hope that anybody in the habitat of Sasquatch, on encountering such a rare and wonderful being, would shoot only if attacked and otherwise behave respectfully towards the True King of the Woods.
It is like the fictional Ents, They'd rather not be bothered, and they are likely hard to rile up, but don't get 'em angry whatever you do.

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from steve182 wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

I saw a show the other night where these Yeti hunters/trackers held a small rock that they claimed Yeti threw at the roof of their cabin as proof of his existence. Oddly enough the 20 trail and spy cams surrounding the place caught no images. If putting him on the List will end the practice of self-promoting wackos claiming to be on the trail of Bigfoot,... by all means.

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from franklin wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

yeah right !!!!

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from AJMcClure wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Trail cameras have a good chance at taking a picture if there are any active unknown upright mammals.

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from countitandone wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

OK, I've seen the bigfoot signs placed by WSDOT(Washington State Department of Transportation)on the North Cascades Highway, State Route 20, where the road bisects the Pacific Crest Trail. Have you?

And I have a trail cam still of "something" walking upright, hairy with long arms and red eyes. We had a thread going about the weirdest thing you've ever seen on your trail cam about 3 weeks ago. I did happen to mention this then.

Also, I've stayed in Six River country, Northern CA, and witnessed the destruction of river side cabins caused by large boulders thrown by "someone" with unbelieveable strength.

Let's "detain" one of these Yeti, Sasquatch, Bigfoot or whatever, long enough to document their existence. Then and only then should we place such a creature on the government's endangered species, and not before.

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from DStrope wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

in Addison NY, as kids we would go camping and stuff and we would hear what you called Big Foot,never saw!!!! we called him "Catman" their around!!!!

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from Tomahawk wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Oh yes! They will chuck rocks and trees at you. I wouldn't want a bowling ball sized boulder buzz my head.
I had something charge me through the woods in the dark making one hell of a racket and it sounded like a large herd of elk stampede and it scared the crap out of me but nothing came out of the woods and it suddenly stopped / stayed within the tree line. I grabbed my 12 gauge loaded with buck shot and patroled the edged of the tree-line and I could hear it walking on 2 legs just out of range of my 'coon light. I put the gun away. It stayed for hours while we sat around the camp-fire. At one point early on it approached very close and started snapping twigs so I strapped on my Redhawk, got cocky and it backed off but still paced back and forth the rest of the night at a distance that it felt safe. It remained perfectly down-wind and would adjust its location each time the wind would shift slightly. It never made a sound other than the loud twig snapping but I could hear it pacing on 2 feet until we went to bed hours later. Nothing further occurred after that. I don't know what it was but subsequent experiences suggest that it was an intimidation display. It was a warm fall night with a stiff wind from the south. Our land is surrounded by state and paper co land. They had recently clear-cut an area up the hill and to the south of us - where the intruder had come from.
As a side note, the county sheriff used the logging road entrance to our land as a road-kill dump. There were piles of road-killed deer lying all around. I would check for sign around it each time we went up to see what was eating and saw bear, cougar, wolf tracks and little varmints that cleaned up after.
But I started to find fresh carcasses that were stripped of their hides in one piece. Never saw that before. I came upon a fresh carcass that was still whole which appeared to have been held by the head and the fur/skin grabbed at the throat and ripped / pulled down in one whole piece turning inside out as it went and then was laid in a pile as if just dropped straight down. It was one whole de-nuded hide completely in tact with the fur inside and skin out-side. No cutting or bite marks anywhere - only seemed "pulled" away from the ankles and throat.
Has anyone else seen anything like that from a known animal? I don't think they were poached as the loins were still intact.
I think I would need a block and tackle to do that to a deer / hide.
Found 3 deer hides at different times just like this prior to the above described incident.

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from Tomahawk wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Ooops! I meant the clear-cut (and intruder) were to the north. Sorry!

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from Kabius wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Tomahawk, I'll give you the benefit of taking your word and assuming that you're not just a crackpot telling stories to amuse yourself. The stories you tell of Sasquatch behavior are intriguing and would fit in well with descriptions of the known behavior of other large ape species like the gorilla. But, if you claim to have seen huge piles of feces, then why aren't those samples being brought in for analysis at a university? This is precisely the sort of concrete physical evidence that is required for the scientific community to even begin to take the idea of North American apes seriously.

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from Tomahawk wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Thanks again.
They have been.
Numerous specimens have been analyzed and they come back "unknown primate" if DNA is found or are identified as another known animal.
Unfortunately we don't have an identified sasquatch specimen(DNA)to compare it to and only will when one is caught or killed.

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from Kabius wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Where and when were these tests performed, and by whom? Where can interested parties see the results of these tests?

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from Tomahawk wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

To be honest, I have heard news reports, TV shows and I know the org I belong to have many reports / evidence that is not shared with the public. It is kept for serious researchers, scientists, the org or by the people who have found it. All items of evidence belong to the researcher who finds it. Some don't share anything unless they get $ out of it which I think is rediculous at best and possibly bogus. We have all seen the lying idiots that want to make a name for themselves. But I also have heard the argument that the researcher has spent many thousands of dollars for their equipment, which is true, and want to re-coup some of their costs. We are just regular people who work fulltime and hunt Biggie in our spare time. Also, so many researchers are so far beyond "proving" anything that its funny. The whole experience seems to morph into something completely different.
Perhaps you might Google "Bigfoot DNA evidence" and weed through the results which will be mixed.
By the way, you guys are great! Wonderful questions and discussion.

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from iHEARTbigfoot wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Mr. Ellis we support you! If you want to see big foot on the endangered species list please join our facebook cause at

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=123764460990885

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from Kabius wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Tomahawk, I appreciate your input on this, and I'd be interested in finding out more about the organization you belong to, and what methods you employ. However, the idea of evidence being "kept secret" flies in the face of all logic when it comes to presenting Sasquatch to the scientific community, and to the general public, as an actual living entity rather than just a myth. Anybody with any training in the hard sciences will tell you that "evidence" in the form of anecdotes, or "TV News Reports" or "some guy says he has proof", are the reasons why Bigfoot remains, for the most part, a punchline. These things simply don't stand up to even the slightest scrutiny. As one who has had a life-long fascination with this topic (and I am hopeful that one day conclusive physical evidence will be brought to light which irrefutably establishes the existence of these creatures, whatever they are) I say it is long past the time when any corroborating evidence, including "unknown primate" DNA test results, be "kept hidden" from the general public for any reason. Even if a living Sasquatch (or a dead one, for that matter) is never dragged into a laboratory, just the establishment of secondary evidence - hair, fecal matter, predation, habitat, etc. - would be enough to give credence to the idea that these creatures exist. And based on that, they could be put on the endangered species list. Kylebob5706@sbcglobal.net

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from Tomahawk wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Exactly.
Unfortunately, every 'Squatcher out there has there own ideas about how one goes about hunting them - huge debate and often conflict between groups that believe in killing one and those who don't.
But I don't think anyone is with-holding the find of the century.
Collecting samples that do not contain flesh or fresh blood may not contain DNA that is measurable.
It is almost impossible to get DNA from a feces sample.
If the hair does not contain the follicle, fell out naturally, there is nothing to test. One can compare it to known samples and describe its characteristics but that is about it.
I don't agree with some in the org who may be a computer genius but can't tell the difference between a tree and a horse. I don't have time for that crap and have no energy for it. One can become disillusioned easily.
And remember, not everyone thinks he should be found by main-stream science. I am one. Think what they would do to him - I wouldn't wish that on my worse enemy let alone such an incredible creature as he.
And I don't wish to be viewed as a "self-promoting wacho" when we all know they exist.
There are many organizations you can contact over the net. Look around and find one that feels comfortable.
Look for data bases of reports and information.
Thank you for taking me seriously and listening. I am just a nobody in an org with some very experienced people I am not worthy of even touching their feet.

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from OrangeNeckInNY wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Putting a creature, whose existence hasn't been proven yet, on the endangered species list is akin to banning bullets whose calibers haven't been invented yet. It's stupid and it sets a wider precedent for these morons to put anything they wish on whatever list they come up with.

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from snowman01 wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

It is an argument that will be never ending ! and it is obvious that not all agree. some day BF will probably be listed on the endangered speicies list, but not before there is absolute proof they exsist and a mush further and deeper study is done to prove what the numbers are or are not. a thing that does not have a proven exsistence can not and should not be listed. if that were to be the case peta and the S club would just have a hay day of what would and would not be listed they would try to find a way to list chickens and all farm animals before it was all said and done along with all vegtable matter and plant speicies. then whats left?
its not to hard to figure how out of hand this would or will get if a listing of things that may or may not exsist is incorperated into law.
I know for a fact that they do exsist and have wrestled with the idea of shooting one my self just to prove they exsist and for various reasons i do not know if I would but it would be a decision that would be automatic depending upon the circumstances, as premeditated could be a down fall, versious manslaughter or a lesser crime if any, as there is no law in most states or even federal to prevent the harvest of one of these creatures. but relizing they are in the catigory of an animal I am sure some day some one will harvest one if possiable. then things will change to the facts as them being worthy of listing.

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from Tomahawk wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Bella, kudos to you, too.
I thought your commments were insightful and humorous.
I was going to invite you to join-up as we need people like you; with a brain.
Women draw in Biggie quite nicely and they like to use us as "bait" with which I have no problem.
You obviously have some interest in the subject and more knowledge and related common sense than many of the other bloggers. I was pleased that some had the ability to process and comprehend what I wrote and were very respectful even if they didn't agree.
Perhaps the rude ones are just jealous and their ignorance will only help Biggie survive :O)
I realized that I never even gave an opinion on the "Endangered Species" list. I just said what I know and have experienced and how it changed me.
Biggie knows that humans only mean death to them and will remain hidden quite effectively.
But if you can control your fear and push beyond it, you just might have the experience of a lifetime.

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from snowman01 wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Elktipper I never have stated that big foot was not worty of protection, in any statment that I have made I have simply stated that a BF body is going to have to be obtained living or dead and by any means as they can not legally be listed until it is proven that such an animal even exsists . now a sample version of murduring family members is an entirly differnt situation and that is extreamly illegal every wear other then self defense ! or some thing under a castle doctrine which some states do not have so charges could still be filed for murder or manslaughter and the self defense would be used as a confession !
I see that you would not like to see one of these BF shot or killed and I think most of us feel the same way, but this is not harry and the hendersons, it is the real world and it is of my opinion that it is going to take cold hard evidence that these creatures do exsist and that it is going to have to take the body of a BF living or Dead . you need not try to equal me to a family murderer to make your point, facts are facts and I beleave most understand what it will take in the real world to prove the exsistence of these animals. Photos and video are excused as hoaxes hair samples and DNA are excused or put aside becouse they have no DNA base to compare to so the samples are excused as unknowen and every thing that is brought out about BF is met with skeptisisam or as a hoax or some one trying to make a quick buck. beleave me it ticks me off that there is a fella in silverton that runs a shop for the tourist that get off of the train that is full of BF stuff and the silverton police and sheriff will just think you are a nut if you try to explain to them that they are just in the mountins at the edge of town, to me the fella is making a quick buck and making a mockery of true sightings and the fact is, it should be a crime as to what they are doing. but it is not and it is becouse of those types THE I OWN A BIGFOOT STORE TYPES that it is going to take extream things to prove the exsistence of BF. WHEW thats alot of getting my point across !!!! thank you.

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from Swede BF wrote 1 year 34 weeks ago

Tomahawk! Thanks for all the information in your comments! For the past 1,5 years I´ve been reading everything I can find on the internet about BF, yetis etc. It´s an extremely fascinating subject! Here in Sweden we don´t have that many sigthings on BF, unfortunately. But we do have a few back in the 80:s, perhaps one of the Russian Almas decided to go west, escaping the communists :)

I would love to take part in such an expedition as you describe, to look for BF. How do I join? I´m a forester, hunter and a leutenant in the army. So I know my way in the forest...

I have lots of questions on the BF subject, and would be happy if you sent me an e-mail on "skog.kartor@gmail.com"

Best regards

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from Tomahawk wrote 1 year 34 weeks ago

They are everywhere like deer and I don't think they need any designated habitat set aside. If they lived in one specific spot, maybe.
But they live deep in the forest or on the edge of town - all over America and Canada.
They should be protected, no matter what. Period.
Or were you hoping to find a Bigfoot loin chop at the local grocer or high-end steak house?
Or perhaps cut off his hands and feet to hang on your wall? Or look at his human face peering at you from above the mantle?
There is enough evidence that there is a north american great ape to list it as endangered.

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from swimmerscott wrote 1 year 34 weeks ago

I am a field investigator of bigfoot reports as well as a researcher. I am also a lifelong hunter. I saw my first bigfoot in October 2005 and it was a profound, life changing event. I have since seen them four more times. So for me, it is not a matter of belief, but of knowing.

As for putting them on the endangered species list, that would be a really really bad idea. Once they are listed, forget about hunting, fishing, camping hiking, or any use of the outdoors for recreational purposes. Is that what we all want? I don't think so.

From my first hand experiences, I can say that they do quite well without our help. They are masters of their world, own the night, and are stealthy, elusive, and smart. They also won't hurt people. I know, one was within touching distance of me once.

Further, there is no way to count them. So we don't really know if they are endagered. It is arrogant as humans to think that we can "take care of them". All they need is some space. With so much of the western US in wilderness area, national forest, and closed-gate tree farms, they have plenty of room. They are reported to be in every US state, and all of Canada. They have been living among us forever, and they live quite close to human populations without being noticed. From my experience, and this is just my gut feel, they are thriving and probably increasing in population. We often see the little ones.

They definatly should not be hunted. Hunters who have had a close up view of them say they are too human to shoot. They have spoken language (sounds like japanese). Shooting one would open up the shooter to all sorts of uncharted legal territory and problems.

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from Tomahawk wrote 1 year 34 weeks ago

Nicely said, Scott!

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from AJMcClure wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Whatever Bella, I long for a bigfoot rug, to one up the bourgeoisie, but on the other hand I might end up tagging a hairy uncle with his shirt off.

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from Sharkfin wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Moishe, nope, I'm from SC, been here most of my life. Born in Charlotte, NC.

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from skykomishsteelheader wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Isn't odie the name of the dumb dog in Garfield? I see a similarity between these two, they're both dumb.

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from muskiemaster wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

how about something real, all these tv shows find, leaves that were moved, hiar and footprints. I want one real scientist with no biased to go in and perform numerous studies on all these things and put it to rest. but then that ruins the fun of all of it and believing there's something out there that you can find and nobody else has yet.

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from Elktipper wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

Skamania County Washington has not put Bigfoot on the endangered species list, but if you plan to shoot one for sport or to prove they exist there is a small deterence of a gross misdemeanor with $1000 fine and up to 1 year jail time (link attached). Not much but a step in the right direction. If you disagree with protecting Bigfoot, let's turn the table, how about open season on one of your cousins just to prove you have a cousin? I have never seen your cousin, does he or she exist?

http://www.skamaniacounty.org/Commissioners/Bigfoot%20Ordinance%201984-2...

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from snowman01 wrote 1 year 35 weeks ago

These animals are extreamly knockternal Hence the red or orange color that has been seen in their eyes, from refracting light in the direction of the light source IE a flash light, car head lights etc etc. this is for one the biggest reason that they are rarly seen by people.
Yes these animals are more human like then any other ape that is knowen to exsist and they may even have a primative language or vocal stucture for communication as well as an ape like or very sub human way of communicating with other species such as humans or things that they feel may be a threat, by attempts of them trying to intimadate or scare the threat into a retreat or a defensive mode by throwing rocks and banging rocks togather and tree knocking etc etc often followed by a ligering just out of sight often making loud vocal noises and extreamly rare bluff charges just like the african mountin gorilla does.
I have experienced them first hand, and knowing more now then in years past I beleave I have had encounters with one or more during hunting trips that I had excused noises and reactions as other things. they are rare animals but far more common then people think. we all know that there are bears in the woods but how often do you see them let alone walk up on one, there are areas where you can walk right up on them and that is usually becouse of over population in a congested area. there are extreamly hard to access areas that are realativly close to roads and communitys but the locals would call you crazy if you reported seeing a BF at the edge of town. that just goes to show you that the locals can become very blind to there surroundings and how little they really get beyond the edge of town. there are many who travel so little that a trip one time a year to a larger town may be a big deal. like some of us traveling several states away or even over seas. the point is that humans are extreamly lazy and rarly if at all go into these hard to reach places unless there is a road or a horse or a 4 wheeler to help get you there.
I know of an area in Colorado that has a small number of BF and the locals are totally oblivious to them. of course most are still tucked in to bed when these animals are active at night. they would be surprised if you told them that when you drove through town at 4 in the morning that you saw an elk and 3 deer on the court house lawn grazing in peace. and a coyote carrying of the neighbors cat.
But I have had the luck of seeing a large BF that was close to 10 feet tall and some where between 800 and 1000 pounds cross a road in front of me it was the largest living thing I have seen in the wild in this country I listed a report on BFRO under MINER has early morning sighting in siverton colorado. or san juan county.
I am an avvid hunter and outdoors man and have worked a great deal of jobs that put me on the roads and highways at extreamly odd hours. and I hunt in many of the places that I have describd just becouse most people will not attempt to hunt or explore them and they are in the back yards of many of these towns. that is why the game is plentiful and the hunting is hard to do but it is extreamly rewarding just to be in these places do to the lack of desire of most to trek into them. and as you are probably begining to see that is why BF seeks out these areas to, they offer peace and security and these animals have no problem navigating these areas at all they have to master it to survive there and to be able to hunt and ambush game. they also offer an abundent amount of vegitation for them to eat and I am sure they migrate away from these areas in the extreams of winter but they may stay just as well becouse many of the game animals that are or could be a food souce stay all year.
These are just a few of my observations from being in that climate most of my life and studying and researching these animals over the years. now all that we have is strictly therory to the behaviour and actions and reports of short encounters and sightings. we have but just skimmed the surface of the investigation into these animals.
So yes I have come to the conclusion as sad as it is that one of these creatures will probably have to be eaither found dead and in a very recent manner such as from being hit by a truck or some thing or a highly unlikly situation that some one stumbles over one while hiking or hunting or an even more extreamly rare case of some one catching one alive. all are extramly poor odds of happening. it is far more likly that one will be shot and turned over to the proper athorities to be scientificly investigated that is the only way we will be able to learn what we need to know of them and at that it will take a great deal more time of investigation and study.
But the bottom line how ever it is met it is going to take a BODY of a Big Foot living or dead to make the advancments we need to learn the things we now do not know about them. and until that happens I doubt that you will see BF on the endangered species list.
further more if and when they are listed how is it going to change the use of private and public lands. will farming cease? will the use and all use of public land cease ? will we have to dismantel our towns and citys to allow more romm for BF ? where and what will happen after the fact is the scary part becouse I am sure there are a great deal of wackos out there that would take this to the extream and want every thing and more that I just mentioned. its kinda like giving back the entire south west to mexico or returning all of america back over to the american indians, it could get way out of hand and that is probably becouse of the extream reactions from peta and the S club that even if I found one dead and in good condition I my self would not allow the world to know of such a discovery and this may all ready be the case of the government doing such a thing just so the courts and the government are not tied up for decades and the masses starving becouse of the extream reaction that would be demanded from those like minded its ok for me to build my house in the forest types ! but you are not worthy.!!!!! I mhope this helps clear things up some what.?

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from iron giant wrote 1 year 34 weeks ago

Putting big foot on the endangered species list before it is proven he really exists would only cause more bureaucratic red tape and give the EPA more power to restrict how land can be used. We have no idea what he lives in because over the years he's been "spotted" every where from Florida to Washington, Texas to the Great Lakes, and everywhere in between. I believe that it is possible that some large primate could be living in the wild places of North America,but I don't want more laws limiting the use of our land to be made in the name of protecting a creature that as of yet hasn't been proven to exist. We can discuss how to protect them after somebody proves they're real. However if I personally came across one while in the woods, I wouldn't hesitate to shoot it.

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from Elktipper wrote 1 year 34 weeks ago

I think it is very important that we keep the use of the Endangered Species Act in perspective. By putting BF on the list we do establish a number of options that have “potential” negative consequences to private and public land ownership and its use. There is a rational legal process that needs to be followed prior to denying access to lands or altering use of private properties. Much legal debate and litigation would ensue. None of this would even start until a population and range of the species can be documented. And obviously the idea of providing preserves for BF at this point or in the near future is totally out of the question since so little is documented/known about the species.
But on the other hand we accomplish far more by protecting a creature from “open season hunting” status. I have read books, blogs, BF nets and orgs and many other articles and the action of shooting at BF is found in all the sources. People shoot at BF. People shoot at bears and hit people because they can’t tell the difference or get overly excited. Happened here two years ago in Washington when a young hunter shot a hiker mistaking her for a bear. Bad situation. We Americans worked hard to provide some form of protected status/condition for the mountain gorilla when they were discovered. It worked to some extent but their population still dwindled due to local factional struggles and poaching. BF is discovered (scientists currently are too concerned about their image and personal ridicule to admit it) and now is our chance to take the first step to protect the species. The main reason for placing BF on the list would be to provide penalties for the execution/shooting of a BF on a nationwide level (see previous post for a local solution). Studies and litigation would need to ensue in order to take the next step (if necessary) to protect individual populations of the species wherever they are “proven” to exist.
I give KUDOS to all the organizations that currently follow up on every sighting of BF and their interaction with humans. The same groups attempt scientific research and contacts with BF on a regular basis. The sheer number of people involved in establishing BF as a credible creature has grown phenomenally. I believe that these organizations have information in their private archives that would help to establish BF’s validity but they either don’t want to open themselves up to public ridicule and/or they would simply like to see some monetary gain to recoup expenses and continue their exciting journey. Jeff Meldrum wrote an awesome book laying out the science and fiction of BF and left the reader with the option of open interpretation. Our scientific community needs to step up to the plate and get funding to do some serious research. If they can get funding to study the sex life of termites, fleas and rats there should be some money to study the legendary Bigfoot!
Snowman01 my previous comment was a generalized comment not being directed at you. Sorry to those who took offense.

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from snowman01 wrote 1 year 34 weeks ago

Elk tipper I beleave that for one a BF must be proven to exsist and they must be proven to exsist in areas, so just one discovery of a BF would not give credit to the idea of a blanket of the entire USA being under the demise of the endangered species list. I am sure that once they are proven to exsist they would be given some type of protection just like the Grizzly or Bald eagle and so on . so do we call the areas that BF are not found to exsist areas that should be under protection just becouse they do not exsist there or do we just close all public lands and put severe restrictions on private property. futher more if a situation were to a rise where a person was forced to defend them selves then would that person have the right to kill a BF in self defense after they are protected.?
A lot of responsability goes with passing a protection with out what guide lines are to be followed. are laws have been raped and turned inside out by special interest groups over the last few years and this is just opening an other can of worms. I could agree to some protections for BF in areas that they are proven to exsist but as far as they roam and the vastness of their ranges would decimate all of our entire country highways would have to be shut down, dams would have to be removed all access would be cut off to all public lands except for you town park, then with the highways being shut down and removed how would grocerys gas and other life giving nessesities be delivered so then we now have people starving jobs lost and further more town and citys abandoned in mass. where does it stop it does not stop the special interest people push law suit after law suit.
how would you feel if you are now locked out of your public lands forever, for fear of giving a BF a common cold that might kill one or an other sickness that could whipe them out in areas. is it fair to close all public lands to all and forever just becouse BF MAY OR MAY NOT EXSIST ? hearing from people that BF needs protection and now with out their proven with rock hard solid evidence is foolish to list them on the endangered species list.
The transplanted wolves in the forests of Idaho are now spreading deep into wyoming oregon colorado new mexico and arizona as well as all over montana, are these trans planted wolves a direct threat to BF, who deserves to Live more and then starve to death becouse a species destroys an entire elk and deer heard how many deer and elk must disappear and there again that effects people so you know it effect BF if they use these as food sources, Who is man to play God with these creatures should the wolves be removed and eradicated to suffice the exsistence of BF. does mans lack of control of nature now benefit BF or does it Harm BF are there more BF now then 100 years ago. we can not just simply start making laws for some thing we know extreamly very little about. our population keeps growing by leaps and bounds so more farms are needed and more timber and raw materieals from mining etc etc the whole system collapses becouse of special protections for certin creatures where does it stop. how for one can a law be made not to harm some thing that may not even exsist and if we make it for big foot what about those that have smaller feet what are the specifications and guide lines of the laws to be made what if there are several different species and sub species again where does it stop the answer is I guess with the extenction of the human race as a whole. these creatures have survived far longer then man kind and will probably exsist long after we are gone so how about we prove they exsist first and then give certin protections to them not total protection to them , they are all ready trying to shut down all oil drilling becouse of this oil spill, and we are supposed to trust those in power, frankly I like hunting and fishing and camping and enjoying the out doors I am not ready to sacrifice that just becouse BF may or may not be there !!!!! are you ? people need to look at the entire picture not just the little pixel that could be a BF off in the distance.

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from snowman01 wrote 1 year 34 weeks ago

Tomahawk, I beleave that you have an impression of hunters as a veiw of the bad guy on Harry and the Henersons "La Farge" or what ever his name is.
In truth 99.9999 percent of all hunters are masters or learning to be masters of taking care of our enviroment. yes we live in civilized citys and we have a currency system for tradeing goods. But that does not fill the hunter gather needs in the human race, yes our wives enjoy shopping to fill that need but most all humans return to nature to some degree, many take photos, many go berry picking, many go camping, many go fishing,
the point is, most people respect the enviroment and what it has to offer. all of its myths mysterys and wildlife.
it is just as wrong for me to bash mountin bikers or rock climbers or bird watchers as it is for those on the other side to bash hunting ! if we as a species did not hunt we as the human race would have probably ceased to exsist long ago it is our brains that has made our bodies change to meet our needs of our enviroment and what our bodies did not provide we made tools.
where I am going with this is simple BF has adapted as well and thier nitch seems to be at night.and they seem to be the masters of the night. they are rarly seen and the do have home ranges and seem to prefer some areas but they do travel great distances as well.
I do beleave that the quickest way to prove the exsistance of them is a body. now if that is provided by a hunter is only a speculation. I do not beleave any one is wanting to go killing one for a wall hanger or chop one up to sell body parts on a street corner. and again we get into well there should be no hunting becouse some might get mistaken for a bear. I am sure there is more to that story. was the hiker dressed like a bear. or was it just a really really stupid and blind hunter ?
some people want blanket protection for BF and I have stated my opinion over and over for many reasons as to why just listing BF as an endangered species is entirly the wrong thing to do. we all ready can not drill oil in the arctic circle like anwar and the northern platue becouse it might effect the caribou migration ? and there are millions of them . so how will the listing of BF effect the use of all public and private lands.?
PEOPLE THAT WANT LAWS MADE BECOUSE IT IS THE MORAL THING OR IT WOULD MAKE MY HEART FEEL BETTER KINDA OF APPROACH IS THE WORST THING FOR EVERY THING AND EVERYBODY INVOLVED.
AN EXAMPLE, the transplantation of wolves has gotten way out of hand. they are not cute little puppy dogs for scatchen their ears when you come across one in the forest. they kill and they destroy and they are controled by starvation when they use all of their resourses which can take many decades to reproduce and rebuild its numbers, AN EXAMPLE, no hunting of black bears in new jersy and the numbers are exceeding the numbers of people in some neighborhoods and they are becoming destructive and many are starving becouse of the lack of hunting. AN EXAMPLE, cougars in california kill mountin bikers and hikers and even kill and maim at city MAlls JSUT BECOUSE OF A LAW THAT MADE IT ILLEGAL TO HUNT THEM OR KILL THEM, WHY BECOUSE SOME MORAL AND WELL MEANING PEOPLE DID NOT SEE THEM DAILY ON THEIR DRIVE TO WORK LAYING PEACFULLY IN THE PARK WITH THE DEER AND THE CHILDREN. NOW COUGARS ARE A HUGE PROBLEM AND GETTING WORSE EVERY YEAR IN CALIFORNIA.
SPEND SOME TIME CHECKING FACTS AND DO SOME HONEST RESEARCH AND I AM SURE IF YOU GIVE THINGS AN HONEST EVALUATION TO JUST PASSING A LAW BECOUSE IT MAKES SOME ONE FEEL GOOD IS TRULY THE WORST THING TO DO FOR BF AND ALL INVOLVED
AN EXAMPLE, maybe logging helps BF by clearcutting out large areas of forest and making it more open BF may have a better chance of catching a deer or a rabbit, it may even make an escape from human intrusion easier becouse they can see you coming from a farther distance?
just some things that we as man kind may not be aware of.
I know that in thick heavy timber and cover I find it easier to hunt deer and elk on the areas where power lines and pipe lines have been placed just becouse they offer a wide open veiw of what may walk out in front of me even a few hundred yards away, when in a thick forest i may have sworn there was nothing living in it. we see BF more often becouse of roads that are cut into areas and they are often seen in old areas that have been logged out and clear cut they are often seen walking on old logging roads. so here is the big quastion.
DOES MAN KIND AND OUR INTRUSIONS OF MINING , LOGGING , CONSTRUCTION , AND FARMING AND ALL THINGS DEEMED DESTRUCTIVE BY A FEW HEART FELT PEOPLE, DO THESE THINGS HELP AND AID BF AND MAKE THEIR LIVES EASIER OR HAS WHAT WE HAVE DONE DESTROYED THEM ? AS WELL AS HUNTERS LEAVING GUT PILES AND SOME TIMES WOUNDED GAME IN THE FEILDS AND MOUNTINS, DOES THIS LEAVE A FOOD SOURCE OF VAST NUTRITION FOR BF AND MANY OTHER ANIMALS ?
SO DOES HUNTING HELP AND AID BF OR DESTROY THEM. ? THESE ARE ALL VALID QUASTIONS AND SOME WOULD HAVE THE RIGHT ANSWERS, DO SOME RESEARCH AND FIELD STUDY AND THEN ASK YOUR SELF IF ALL OF THOSE WERE TO BE CEASED RIGHT THIS VERY MINUTE WOULD IT AID BF NOW AND IN THE LONG RUN OVER MANY YEARS AS THE FOREST GROWS THICK AND INPENATERABLE MEADOWS AS FOOD SOURCES DISAPPEAR THE GAME BECOMES FEWER AND LESS BECOUSE THE MEADOW ARE GONE AND THE FOREST IS TO THICK AND THE TRAILS ARE OVER GROWEN, NOW DOES THIS NOW HELP AND AID BF HAVING FEWER FOOD SOURCES OR DOES IT MAKE IT HARDER FOR THEM TO EXSIST ?
IS BF INCREASING IN NUMBERS AND POPULATION BECOUSE MAN KIND HAS AIDED THEM UNKNOWINGLY BY OUR EFFORTS TO MAKE OUR LIVES BETTER AND EASIER ?
NOW BY PASSING A LAW THAT WOULD RESTRICT A GREAT DEAL OF THE THINGS THAT JUST MAY HAVE HELPED AND AIDED BF ARE THEY NOW BEING HARMED BY BEING PUT ON THE ENDANGERED SPECIS LIST BECOUSE OF THE LACK OF MANS PRESENCE IN ALL FORMS AND PLACES AND ACTIONS,?

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from flowerchild65 wrote 1 year 34 weeks ago

ok, so the evidence for their existence is hundreds of casting of footprints found, hair samples that match no known species(and not just one sample) recordings that have been analyzed by computers that match no known species, scat the doesn't match any known species,hundreds if not thousands of eye witness reports, many by very credible persons(law enforcement,doctors,professors etc),stories by native peoples for hundreds of years and people say they dont exist. PEOPLE HAVE BEEN CONVICTED OF MURDER AND OTHER SERIOUS CRIMES ON LESS EVIDENCE ! i say they they exist( i will omit my experience with them) and should definitely be protected. just my 2 cents..namaste all

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from cosplay wrote 1 year 25 weeks ago

The anecdotal evidence is far more convincing and testimonials of sightings often come from persons like police officers in positions of trust and responsibility. Of course I'd have to see Bigfoot myself in order to be totally convinced

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from Nycflyangler wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

I've done some reading on the subject.




A hunter has claimed to have shot one, in western Canada during WW2. The spoiler was he didn't report it because he was illegally hunting for moose during the war.




http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=9552




I myself have seen something. I was driving up to my parent's place in Vermont in 1992 and was by Glastenbury Mt. on RT7 at about 3am. As I came up a rise I caught a shadowy bipedal form in my headlights for a second. It could have been a bear or the front end of a moose, but didn't seem right for either of those.




There's even an article about Bigfoot that live in the greenbelt of Staten Island in NYC.




http://www.nypress.com/article-7469-trashquatch_the-hunt-for-the-staten-...

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from sage wrote 14 weeks 3 days ago

When we lose or ignore the fact that somethings are invisible to us, it will be the downfall of mankind. The destruction of even one of these magnificant beings would be the undoing of us. I agree, put them on the endangered species list.

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