Another downside to the current deer population is crop damage.

I like a big, ol hairy buck with an upturned tree stump for a headpiece as well as the next guy.
Does are much easier to clean and more numerous.
If a Booner buck and a doe step out at the same time, I'll probably shoot the buck, that is if I can quit shaking long enough!!! LOL!!!
Taste?
Properly tended, I'm unable to detect any difference. The only difference I can see is the big buck butterflies are somewhat larger!

Bubba

dcrabtree.... you known where I can shoot some hogs?? haha.. I've been interested in getting on a hog hunt for quite a while now. I'm not too excited about packing up my guns for a plane ride with the current geniuses in the security lines.

I gotta agree with PB on the lengths people are going to secure up trophy bucks. I don't think his point was that people shouldn't shoot trophy bucks, but more that it's asinine to buy up a piece of property and seclude it from the rest of the world. At what point is every person that does this treating their land like a high fence operation. I know in my part of the country, if there is a piece of land that doesn't get hunted by hundreds of folks every year, it doesn't take very long for deer to know where to hide out. At some point, where's the fun in shooting your trophy buck that is standing out in the open with no cares in the world cuz he hasn't been shot at in 4 years? I would feel as if the thrill of the hunt has been lost if I'm not pursuing the game in wild habitat and testing my skills against the animal's instincts and senses. And that doesn't even get me into how frustrating it is that the only people who do this type of thing in my area are very wealthy people from nowhere near this area and they pay ridiculous prices to take land away from farmers that want the land or people who would use the land year round, not 1 week a year. I think it's a bad trend. Hopefully a trend that doesn't continue.

It's certainly easy to carried away in the pursuit of bigger bucks, but a good management program that allows the smaller bucks to walk and keeps the doe population in check equals good stewardship.

SD - I couldn't agree more. In 1987 my grandparents bought a secluded quarter in northwest Oklahoma, where my grandpa was able to fulfill his lifelong dream of running his own cattle ranch. The surrounding land was owned by farmers and ranchers that were avid sportsmen as well, who often opened up their lands to other hunters for nothing more than a handshake and maybe a couple of backstrap steaks. Some of my earliest memories are of standing on the front seat of the truck between Grandpa and Dad, pulling up to our gate on a road that was little more than a jeep trail between barbwire fences. The "traffic" on the road to our property consisted of a farm truck or two throughout the day, and that was considered busy.

Fast forward to today. Many of the farmers are having to sell out as they grow older, their children having little or no interest in the land that provided for them. Doctors and lawyers that live hours away are buying the land up left and right, setting up private "reserves" of their own. The amount of money that they are willing to pay for land is hard to turn down, and this in turn makes it impossible for many a young person to follow their dream as my grandpa did, let alone get permission to hunt.

I have heard of one instance where two friends that hadn't seen each other in a long while chanced upon one another and stopped on the road to catch up. They hadn't been there too long when a new property owner came screaming up in his brand new, freshly washed, $50,000 truck and accused them of not only disturbing HIS deer herd, but poaching as well. Just for sitting and talking on the side of a dirt road.

Not all of our new neighbors are bad. A few have proven to be people of wonderful character, and have become great friends and hunting partners.

It isn't just for whitetails Phil. Here in Wyoming we have consortiums of super-rich folk who buy up multiple ranches for the hunting opportunities. Like in the East, they keep everyone else out. Many are able to lock up public lands as well. I find it rather ironic that hard-scrabble, dirt-poor family ranchers will often let one hunt on their property with just a polite request. The rich absentee landowners, that have so much, don't seem to want to share.

The globalists in D.C. want to make us a socialist state anyway, so hunting only for the elite folks fits their European mold nicely. They can hang a few poachers of the the royal game for entertainment.

If your hunting club is on the same page, then it will prosper. If your like me and you want everyone to let young bucks walk it can be tough, because for me a four and a half year old buck regardless of antler size is a trophy. They are fun to chase because of how weary they are. Young deer will gawk at you as you drive by trying to figure out what you are and old deer will run as if there life depended on it until they are back in cover. This QDMA will not go away, but we will see more closed gates and big money leases. Trophy farm bucks fetch 6 figure prices, but if you kill off their offspring before prime then its a waste to attempt to grow monster bucks, where antler size is on the lower end. A Hill buck in the Ozarks that reaches 125 is a monster, but measure the fun not the antlers. Times are changing, adapt and let's open up State land where feasible. Eddie Nikkens probably won't be putting any 5 year old spikes on the cover any time soon but those skulls make for good story pieces. Cheers

Another downside to white-tailed deer hunting is the plethora of brainless shows on the Outdoor Channel and Sportsman's Channel that show segment after segment of shooting deer from blinds. They usually are narrated by simpletons with their sporty little goatees who usually talk with a southern accent, and in the case of a guy named Wilson, are so ignorant they cannot even use proper grammar. As a life-long hunter, I am disgusted by these shows. I cannot imagine the revulsion experienced by a non-hunter who might view them.

I quit hanging out with the DU crowd, buncha rich folks who want to take your hard work and earned private property permission, and pay a good old rancher some money to keep even you out of it.

The operative word here is access and the operative phrase is, access denied. You do not need to be a Nostradamus to see what's coming around the bend.

Two recent posts by these very same blog writers, come to mind. The traveling road show of deer turned loose for your hunting pleasure. Oh, and the governments "offer" of One Million Dollars to each state for landowner participation in "access granted" to their properties...

This is a different time now, and I don't like where things are heading in the "land of the free and the home of the brave."

AHHHH,..yes the magical mystical ,.majestical 480 lb
(in someones dream ) turdy poingt buck. :)

The guy I used to deer hunt with the most ( aside from one brother ) finally couldnt stand it and went Antler nuts.

It changed him to such a degree that the mere mention of whackig a doe on the land we were hunting at the time.
couldand would send him off an a diatribe such that you wouild swear he INVENTED the idea of QDM.

Aftere a couple years he became a legend in his own
mind.
Which was to some extent ammusing ,.
and thinking he would sooner or later ,.
put a rubber band around his head ,. and snap out of it I just listened,
But the BS only got more fantastic and deeper

That I am very loyal to my freinds was cause enough to over look most of the statements he proffered as to his knowledge, vast experiance and manly feats in the deer woods .

That his second wife dunped him didnt help his self worth much.
So I again ( some more ) I didnt say anything until it finally just got stupid .
Or maybe better put it became clear he had reacehd the point were he started beliving his own BS.

Listening to the pontification one day at long last I finally had enough,. and took him down a couple pegs
( verbally )

Reminding him of who he was and that what he was sayng was no more truthfull ,. than the idea that women do not suffer from hormonal mood swings.

But ya know,.. by then it had gon too far ,. so far in fact that he was never quiet the same toward me again .

Such is the power of obsession when it comes the big wrack .
And I don't mean a Dolly Parton

Too bad ,.

When I first started hunting there were not many deer at all. It was a huge event when someone actually killed a deer, or even saw one like Phil says. Plus you were only allowed to shoot bucks and they seemed to know it. You would see thirty does to every buck.

Forty years later everything has changed. The landowners around my area are sick of the crop depredation and nearly everyone has wrecked a car now because the deer are everywhere. So it has actually become much easier for me to find places to hunt.

I have people calling me saying "I hear you hunt will you come shoot some deer?" The truth is though most of them want you to shoot the does because they like looking at the horns even if they don't hunt. It's all good the does really are a whole lot more tender and I have five racks on the wall already... I'm over the antler envy I feel I have my fair share.

The increase in whitetail number has certainly taken the pressure off other species. In my opinion this is a win-win senerio for hunters. The prolific and adaptable whitetail is Gods gift to game management. Overpopulation continues to be a problem in many states even after record harvest. Deer hunters have to love this. And for every deer hunter in the woods it's one less smallgame/duck/bird hunter you will find elsewhere. Non-deer hunters should like that.

I also think states are doing the right thing by putting more money into deer hunting than other species. Afterall where does most of their hunting revenue come from? It's not smallgame licenses. A guy purchasing a deer tag should expect to get his money back somehow. The question remains whether smallgame revenue is decreased because deer hunting revenue is up. Most states smallgame permits are built into the license which is also required for every deer hunter.

Being a landowner I am guilty of two things mentioned here. One... I do not allow hunting of other species during deer season and two... I do not give others permission to hunt. My defense is simply this. I spent a lot of money to have a place of my own to hunt. I should have the right to manage it the way I see fit.

On the flip side, after my son and I have harvested our bucks I will let anyone on to hunt anything they wish. If we harvest our deer in Mid November there is plenty of smallgame season left. But guess what... even with a greenlight I never see any smallgame hunters on my property.

On a side note. Deer herds were increasing at an alarming rate long before QDM was ever in the picture.

I have not killed a whitetail deer since 1989 and don't feel any less a hunter. I've shot a deuce and a half load of elk, mule deer, and geese since then and I certainly don't feel inadequate!

But to each his own. I do admit to paying a nominal fee for private property access (not high fence) for elk hunting, but that is more to not be bothered by the hordes swarming public land tahn anything else. If the fee goes up on that spot, I'm likely to opt out of future hunts and go back to hunting WA and Montana more.

There are plenty of theories that have been written about the loss of quail populations, but this important native upland bird needs some serious restocking and habitat help. Pheasants are from Asia and live on average a year, but I have eaten only one quail in almost 30 years.

buckhunter,
"Being a landowner I am guilty of two things mentioned here. One... I do not allow hunting of other species during deer season and two... I do not give others permission to hunt. My defense is simply this. I spent a lot of money to have a place of my own to hunt. I should have the right to manage it the way I see fit."

I couldn't agree more. Best post I've read in a while.

The biggest Bucks & Moose I ever ran into was when I was out "AAAing" ( triple "A"ing) Ducks & Geese!

One of the guys I was with didn't have a slug for the Moose, I handed him ringed shell of #5's and he dropped Bullwinkle like a ton of rocks at 60 yards!

AJMcClure, it's a trick I learned back in 75 when I was a Military Game Warden in what to do if your pinned down by someone with a rifle. This trick I'm not going to tell how it's done because it's hard on the shotgun with possible damage and hazardous to the shooter and those around. Even #8's will blow thru a car door or 1/8" plate turned 30 degrees(with accuracy permitting) at 200 yards and the sound traveling through the air is enough to scar the hell out of bad guys!

I'm sure my QDM neighbors hate me when I shoot smaller bucks all the time but horns don't mean much compared to a nice set of 3 ft. long backstraps and loins. Nice to see Phil has the same outlook about Quality Buck Management as I do!

Walt, season before last when Alex age 10 then checked in his Buck and Doe that morning at the Butchers, another kid had a realy nice 10 pointer. Alex's buck had 8 and the rack was small, but the other kip started whining at his Dad, why does he have two deer and I have one? Recon it's not the size of the rack, it's filling up the freezer and I got to say, this kid is no punk even at 250 yards with my 25-06! I wonder when will I ever get to use it?

A moose at 60 yards with No.5's? Come on now Clay... was this one of your "special" handloads? I've rolled a coyote with 6's and he got up and left the scene never to be found.

The days of the free hunt are not over if you live in a state that has Game Management Areas and National Forest Lands, other than that, you can expect to pay the piper if you want to hunt.
Everying in life has some sort of price, if you want to be physically fit, you must exercise, if you want to hunt you must pay the price, either in property ownership, club membership or sweat equity in hunting public lands that do not allow ATV's so you must hike in and out of the area.
Complaining about someone buying land and not allowing free loaders is bullshit. No one complaning can make me believe that they would do otherwise if the shoe was on the other foot. I am not a wealthy person, but I can always save enough each year to pay dues in a good club as well as hunt public land. If I can do it, so can you, as it has been 30 years since I could walk on solid knees.

Walt, that sucks, the wolves are doing that much damage to your herd and the state wont do anything about it. The mt. lions are getting firmly established in this part of Iowa, but because they are not supposed to be here, they can be shot anytime.Everyone sees them around my place, but I have not had any problem with the horses yet, I hear thats their favorite meat, according to the "experts".Soon the state will admit there are enough breeding here to include them, but I sure hope the wolves dont make it this far south,from Minnisota, I would much rather have the lions.

Phil, your comment 'just seeing a deer you told people about it' is so true. As those posters here know I grew up living next to duck clubs, prime food and sanctuary for deer, but from 1951 to 1973 if a deer was seen the gossip spread. With the mo. conservation effort the deer took hold and now they're common.

I remember as a kid visiting the buck pole with my dad and his friends. Plaid shirts and cigar smell baiting the air. That's my best memories of opening days gone by..back then a spike horn looked like a trophy to me!

I also remember the first deer that called our farm home. From that point on, doing everything possible to make my old family farm a place the deer would stay on. But with urban sprawl and more hunters than deer. I traded in the mostly rowcropped farm for what was then called wasteland,rough, timbered missouri breaks,deer heavan. Well now things have shifted and that wasteland is now worth more than the farmland. There were probably 25 deer useing the property when I bought it. Last winter I had over 300 comeing for the standing corn,found 110 sheds, with the record snowfall we had, for four months. Not to mention the 400+ turkeys that move in from the state park, where 20 years ago we had none.Funny thing is how hard it is to find a gobbler in april when they spread back out again. My only point is things are always changeing, and with the deer and turkeys came the hoards of people wanting to buy or lease everything, so take care of what you got.

My father and I hunt our own land (its his but will be mine eventually) and here's where we stand on access by outsider's:

1. He doesn't see the harm in letting a few people on the property so long as he knows them or has some connection to them (family friend, etc.); I generally agree with him but I want to know the person better before letting them on the land

2. After seeing how often hunters ruined the hunt for us when we were hunting shared land in the mountains of VA by dropping trash, stumbling around, bringing 10K people with them, and riding 4-wheelers while taking pot shots at hapless deer - not too mention other landowners who have taken the stance "What's mine is mine and what's yours is yours, so stay off," we've decided that if your a stranger, you'd better come with good recommendation cause we don't want serial line-steppers traipsing across the property disturbing everyone, everything, and leaving a mess behind

3. Do unto others - neighbors nice to us receive equally nice treatment; neighbors who act poorly receive poor treatment; we hate trespassers - neighbor across the hollow from us plants crops seasonally on his fields and has made it known that no one can hunt his property, then he goes and gives permission to his entire staff to hunt his fields - we've told em to stay off our land until their boss decides to play nice

4. It never hurts to ask. We're absentee landowners for the most part but we do farm our property with low maintenance crops. We don't mind having someone we TRUST keeping an eye on the place while we're away and would gladly trade some game for that peace of mind. I'm fairly sure that if someone asked us for permission and guaranteed that they wouldn't bring 10 of their friends along, we'd be happy to let em use the property to hunt. We generally don't leave the farm when we're down there so its up to the interested hunter to come knocking; we're nice and friendly people but we have to keep an eye out for our interests too. The property is private so it's only common courtesy that if you get a license to hunt private property you keep that license to yourself, it's not a charity event.

It's late so if some of this doesn't make sense, please forgive me.

Phil,
I guess Lyme Disease hasn't spread out your way yet. Unlike Chronic Wasting Disease, it's not genetic, but a bite from an infected deer tick can put you down - and if left untreated - sometimes for good.
Most landowners around here post their property because they can.

Lyme disease about killed my Ol' Man, following any visit to the woods one must check every freckle, speck, and mole looking spot, but yes Phil is highlighting the issue and someone should write about a hunting club becoming too big, ie not fun for anyone. if we spent 50 million dollars on more frequent signs for National Forests signs we would have a lot fewer problems with hunting locations.

Northern Maine has a lot of space for deer hunting. Unfortunately the deer populations are very low due to bad winters, coyote predation and logging of wintering sites. There is a lot of hand wringing and angst from the locals because deer hunters are a big poart of their economy, and the hunters are not showing up in any sort of numbers now. Good populations are present in the mid and lower parts of the state.

Phil, speaking as a landowner in central Missouri, my farm is posted to control access. My absentee-owner neighbor has asked me to help him turn his farm into an outdoorman's heaven. His farm has been in his family since 1806 and the land grant is signed by Thomas Jefferson. Together we have 400 acres with about 200 acres on my place in pasture for cattle.

There are no less than thirty-two people deer hunting on the farms bordering ours, and the closest crop is over half a mile away. We have 10 acres of food plots and a 30 acre sanctuary.

Last year I designed and had built a six acre lake for him that is a fisherman's dream. The fingerling bass were stocked this summer after bluegill and channel catfish last fall and fathead minnows in the spring.

My neighbor invests several thousand dollars every year into maintenance of the habitat. The heavy equipment used to build the lake was about 25K.

My neighbor gets to hunt deer five days a year. He has taken five does with his bow and two bucks with his rifle over the last four years. For what he spends, he could have hunted with some five star outfitter.

We do let others hunt, but just now when we are hunting. Who gets to hunt? During the special muzzleloading and doe seasons, it usually is an adult with a child 12 and younger. We also have a heated handicap-accessible ground blind. We do allow small game hunting and on my place I have a catch and release pond where I can about guarantee a bass over 3#. For bluegill fishing you can take them or put them in a live box and I'll take them to someone who will clean and eat them.

The best advice I can give a fellow Gun Nut is to buy some acreage and build your own idea of heaven on earth. Put some sweat equity into it and enjoy the fruit of your labor. You may apprediate the value of the hunting or fishing trip a little bit more.

How many folks out there have gone on big trips and not squeezed the trigger because the older bucks they saw "were not what they were looking for," or gone 2+ years to wait on something "worth shooting?" Let's hear some hind sight from past seasons.

Tom-Tom, great post.Thats exactly what I have been saying.When someone puts blood sweat and tears into their own piece of heavan all year long, there is nothing more satisfing than when it all comes together, especially when its one of your kids first deer. Too many people say as soon as you start planting foodplots or leave rowcrops partially standing, now you are not really hunting. Thats crap. I think it puts you even more in touch with the deer all year. AJ, even with a good farm and differant types of food plots, I have not shot a buck in the last 3 seasons. My young sons both get nice bucks and several does, but the buck I am usually after does not cooperate and the other nice bucks I see, I keep convincing myself to give them another year.

AJMcClure I passed on a pretty big six pointer because he was headed toward my son. My son never saw him.

I didn't shoot a huge 10 pointer because it was before legal shooting hours.

I don't shoot the four pointers or spikes ever... but I shoot a lot of does for the meat.

Had to give it a lot of thought, why is it I see all the big Bucks and alot of'em when hunting ducks!

I post my land to control access. I must to weed out the selfish and the usurpers. I have invited usurpers to leave my land on account of them "regulating" access by other hunters.

These "Regulators" don't own land, I've never seen them off-season improving habitat, have a tool in their hand, In fact I never see them until 30-days prior to the deer season.

Disgusting.

ps: Forgive the Cormac McCarthy style punctuation.

Its great to here stories about past seasons. Sometimes old bucks never grow great head gear, but their grey mule looking faces and large but drooping pot bellies give them up, last year I jumped a 10 point whose tines were not as long as other big deer, so I was sure it wasn't the monster that had been sighted 2-3 times, but it probably was. Another ol'guy said he shot a big doe, but it was a 6 month old nubbin buck, and I was not impressed, but he was excited about after going several seasons without a deer. 2 topics-
1. Will the Chupacabra be recognized and allowed into the AKC Kennel Show?
2. Who has a story about themselves, or someone they know who is the equivalent to the baseball Cubs in the field, always pursuing, but striking out year after year?

I am fortunate to hunt with 8 guys where you decide what you want to kill and no one decides for you. There are no "rules" as to what you can kill. The man that owns the property will probably shoot a big fat spike the first morning if it presents itself or an 8 point if its the first deer past. We are not hung up on the antler craze. Every deer we kill is a trophy even the anterless deer we kill to keep the deer herd in check. We do kill some pretty good 8, 9 and once in a while a 10 point buck and that is fine but we don't expect that and it is a real bonus when it happens. We relax when we hunt and there is no pressure to kill a big buck. I really enjoy hunting this way. There is enough stress in our lives anyway to take it to the woods with us too. It seems like all of us kill our bucks every year. Last year I killed a 7 point the first day of season, a 5 point the last day of season and a nice 7 point the first day of muzzleloading season. I truely had a wonderful season. What did they score. I could really care less. They sure did taste great.

I shall be forever grateful my great-grandmother sold 2000 acres to the Empire State for "forever wild" forest, and more grateful than that for my Dad and his brothers who kept 50 acres bordering that forest. Otherwise, I am sure that hunting would be something "I did when I was a kid."

In the Catskills, a lot of the posted land isn't due to folks locking up prime habitat for trophies, but second-home owning city slickers who love Bambi. I don't know which is worse.

I also think that here in Wisconsin just the idea of antlers alone is a catch for people. All the generations of my family spent their time looking for antlers. No butts about it. Since the DNR have been pushing people to harvest does I have been an avid meet hunter. It makes my dad sick, as if shooting a doe was a great failure. One season we had 5 doe tags in our party. We spent the entire season passing up one doe after another because my father owns the farm and sets the rules. In the last weekend when we had not a single deer to split up between the six hunters he let off the rule. I harvested 5 does in a matter of three days and saved the hunt. At least that is how I saw it. But in my father's eyes I was a disgrace. Since that year we have gone to a earn a buck program and I have harvested at least one or two does in an early October hunt where I live just so I can keep on his good side. Personally, I think that this is sad because I would rather have a doe in the freezer than a buck in my dreams. People often loose touch with the reality of the situation. If there are twenty does in a field and one buck I am going to strive to balance. I have not yet shot my trophy but it keeps me going and in the mean time I plan on eating what I have.

the "fixation" on trophy antlers is pure garbage for people who's ego needs constant admiring and stroking. an ex boss of mine would take his son to a "deer ranch" and go "hunting" every year. they would be driven out to a blind with a guide, and told what buck to shoot. if you want to call that hunting, go ahead. i call it something completely different. there is no sport in that at all. there is no actual hunting going on either. all they are doing is killing an animal for the "trophy" and then not only would they have the deer processed. they would give all the meat away. they would not eat even one steak from the animal they took the life of for the sake of antlers. that, in my opinion, should be illegal. i can understand hiring a guide. i can understand having the deer processed. but i can not understand paying $6000.00 (each) to kill an animal strictly for a couple of hunks of almost bone to hang on the wall. and then they have the nerve to call themselves HUNTERS!