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Herring: Have Hunting and Fishing Magazines in Spanish, or Else?

July 19, 2010

Herring: Have Hunting and Fishing Magazines in Spanish, or Else?

In the late 90’s I was working as a forestry subcontractor, planting trees on clearcut paper company and National Forest lands in Montana and Idaho. My last full season (April-June), my work partner and I were the only native English-speakers on the thirty-or-so man crew. It was a good season, and we made good money. Also, I got to know a bunch of Mexican treeplanters who became my friends, and I learned something about what it is like to come from a country whose government has failed, in almost every measurable way, to govern on behalf of its people.

The guys I worked with were mostly legal, and most of them were from rural Mexico, where intense physical labor like treeplanting is the norm, and the ability to bust out the work from can’t see to can’t see is the measure of a man. Almost all of them were interested in hunting and fishing, and in the wildlife that we saw every day at work. Mule deer were ‘buras,’ whitetails were ‘cola-blancas,’ trout were ‘truchas’ and admired for their beauty. Bighorns- ‘borregos’ – were much respected, and the tracks that followed them- of the puma were studied with fascination. Where these men came from, hunting was the sole province of rich sports with guides who hunted protected private lands. Owning a big game rifle- even possessing ammo- was prohibited, and there was hardly any game, anyway, since a hungry nation thinks of the soup pot first – just as we did during the Great Depression. Fishing in Mexico, other than in the saltwater, has much declined due to pollution, overfishing, lack of resource protection. These were country people, though, and their connections to the landscape and the weather, and the essentials, clean water, open spaces, fertile ground, were strong.

In forty years, a low estimate of the US population will be 438 million. 29% of those people- one out of three- will be of Hispanic origin. Of the 117 million new Americans, 67 million will be immigrants, and fifty million will be the children of those immigrants. These will be people who come from nations where conservation is basically unknown. Where environmental protection is mostly a sham, or unknown. Where hunting and fishing are no longer a part of the culture.

My friends on the treeplanting crew had no idea why there were herds of mule deer on the Idaho hillsides. Why there were elk in the high country, or trout in rivers that ran almost as clear as they did in the days of Lewis and Clark. They had no idea why you could fill up your Gott cooler from the pump in the campground or the tap at the hotel, and drink your fill. For that matter, they had no idea why US policemen did not stop them, drag them from their cars and demand they pay a fine of all they had, for an invented infraction. The people who will share America with us have no idea how we got all the things they have come here to enjoy. Why our country is not like the one they fled. Unless we reach out to them, recruit them into hunting and fishing, they will never learn. Even if some of them become environmentalists here, sharing our awe of the rivers and forests and wildlife, they will never have the deep connections to, and understanding of, wildlife and fish that hunters and fishermen have.

We need a Spanish language Field and Stream, a Spanish-speaking Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, a Spanish language Trout Unlimited, BASS, National Trapper’s Association, and on and on. State agencies need to publish hunting and fishing regulations and information in Spanish. Do I believe that every immigrant should adopt English as their primary language? Yes. But my belief does not change the reality that many of those who would buy hunting and fishing licenses, who could become invested in conservation, speak Spanish. And reality is what we are here to discuss.

So far, the trend has gone the other way. Only Texas has a Spanish language version of its hunting and fishing regs, and that one is only available online. Arizona had its regs in Spanish until 2006, when the expense of producing a translated copy of regs that change every year was deemed too much. Now, Arizona has a law that state agencies will produce their documents only in English- a seemingly reasonable law that will backfire (as so many laws based in how we wish the world would be, rather than as it is, tend to do). California has no Spanish language hunting and fishing regs, and its bilingual information specialist now works elsewhere. New Mexico has no Spanish version of its hunting and fishing regs. All bemoan the lack of recruitment of hunters and anglers, the declining license revenues that are, in all states but Missouri and Arkansas, (more on this later) the sole support for fish and wildlife programs and habitat in our country.

We can fight illegal immigration, and we must. We can demand that immigrants speak English, and we must. But we cannot crawl down the rabbithole of prejudice. We cannot fail to widen the tent of hunter and angler conservationists, or we will watch the tent and all it has sheltered, blow away. We will become like the places that our newest citizen fled.

While we are at it, let’s print 12 million US Constitutions in Spanish, too, and in Urdu, Pashto, Arabic- whatever it takes. There is no time to waste.

Comments (52)

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from Dcast wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

Wait a second who really wrote this bed time story? Obama?

Mr. Herring with all due respect, how will legal or illegal imigration help conservation? I don't think that your very opinionated bedtime article would promote conservation and in fact would create more issues in the conservation industry. By adding millions upon millions of immigrants to a nation that is fully occupied/or very close would ruin very pristine locations to make room for ever increasing number of immigrants legal and illegal. The reason why your co-workers were in awe of your work location is because they don't have that habitat in their country, and if they did it would be ruined in very short order like the majority of Mexico. Their government and country lack the ability to enforce laws and regulations. I would have to make an educated guess that we would not be able to force them to follow our laws and regulations, much like they do not now. The problem is they don't respect what they have or had and its a country that is every man, women, and child for themselves whether it is breaking laws, stealing, selling drugs. The USA is to a point now that we cannot afford and should not support anymore immigrant until we get under fiscal integrity. May I also point out that their are no laws and no people that call for prejudice/or should I say what you meant or wanted to say "Racial Profiling".

We have what we need now to sustain the hunting, fishing and conservation industries without the help of another corrupt country and people.

I find this article a sad and inaccurate portrail of a call for conservation. It was more of a back door plea for amnesty than a conservation article!

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from hal herring wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

dcast,

Thanks for your reply. No, it's not a call for amnesty. I have a strong feelings about immigration - I actually subscribe to the lifeboat theory, and feel like the lifeboat is too full already. We should have strong controls and limits on immigration. Our current non-policies will deliver us a future that I don't want my children to have to survive in. These policies have also wrecked Mexico, as the best and strongest of their young citizens - the true fighters for change, the ones who could fix Mexico or at least try-- are spending their lives as second-class citizens in the shadows of the US, exploited by the most venal among us.

What I am writing about is reality. Not how I wish it was, or how it should be.

We have, right now, the highest levels of legal immigration into the US ever. Add illegal immigration and what we see makes Ellis Island in 1907 look like a Little League practice run.

From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States

While European-born immigrants accounted for nearly 60% of the total foreign-born population in 1970, they accounted for only 15% in 2000.[27] Immigration doubled between 1965 and 1970, and doubled again between 1970 and 1990.[28] In 1990, President Bush signed the Immigration Act of 1990,[29] which increased legal immigration to the United States by 40%.[30] Nearly 8 million immigrants came to the United States from 2000 to 2005 – more than in any other five-year period in the nation's history.[31] Almost half entered illegally.[32] Since 1986, Congress has passed seven amnesties for illegal immigrants.[33] Hispanic immigrants were among the first victims of the late-2000s recession.[34] While nearly four million Americans lost their jobs in 2009,[35] 1.1 million immigrants were granted legal residence over the same time period.[36] end quote

Treeplanting, by the way, which I did for years(starting in 1983 in Alabama when a buddy answered an ad for outdoor workers he saw in Outside magazine) now pays a flat rate of $13 an hour, and is considered one of the worst jobs in the woods. It used to be one of the best, done by independent contractors, most native-born, who comprised one of the wildest, most free, and strangest bunch of radical outdoor people I've ever been a part of. That's dead.

I don't have to like it, dcast. I just have to try and understand how we might make the best of it. I'm interested in how we keep the ship off the reef, not in freaking out about the fact that the reef is out there. And it is. Waves are crashin, spray's a flyin.'

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from jamesti wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

this has got to be one of the worst blogs i have ever seen on this site! are you kidding? you talk about how these people came here and see all the wonderful things this country and how all the great things in mexico have been ruined by corruption and pollution. guess what! they can blame themselves for it! they let it happen! if you don't like being robbed by your own police or government, get rid of them. that's why firearms are so feared in this country. because with them we have the means to protect ourselves. not just from petty criminals, but from a corrupt government. if they want a country they can be proud of and live in peace and prosperity, THEY need to do something about it instead of running away from it. overthrow your corrupt government and start doing something about the problem! don't expect me to feel sorry for any of them and i certainly don't agree with your proposal to turn this country into their country! learn english!!!

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from Dcast wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

Thanks for clearing up your article! I'm not an editor or a writer but I am just an average American that when I read this article didn't see your point to the article. It read more of a political stance to myself wrong or right. Right now with the all that is going on in the USA it is easy for people like myself to oversee the true intent of your article. Just a little constructive critism, I think maybe you should have more specifically described what you had in mind in your article. It had more easily assumed political amnesty view than the intended conservation aspect you were trying to bring to the table. Just my opinion and I'm sure others will see your side than mine.

Also, right now I know millions of people that would kill for a job making $13 an hour. I worked in the construction industry for many years making less and maybe the second most worst job and pay!Luckily I went back to school and landed a job in construction designing rather than the hard labor side.

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from hal herring wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

jamesti

Please read my reply to dcast, above. What we are talking about, mostly, is LEGAL immigration. And right now, the US- our government, not Mexico's- is allowing the highest levels of legal immigration into the US in history. All the while FAILING to addres the highest levels of illegal immigration. Double whammy.

Maybe you and I ought to be talking about how to fix OUR government's policies. Every economic theory we have is based on endless growth. More people need more toothbrushes, more roofs, more gas, more cars. That's good, if you sell those things, right? Well, that seems to be the basis for current immigration policy in the US.

As always, there are quite a few unintended consequences to economic theories. What to do? Well, my simple, naive idea is to give all these folks who aren't going back home an idea of how we got all this stuff we got that we love, so maybe, just maybe, they will love it too and keep it going.

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from hal herring wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

Also, jamesti, those treeplanting jobs are out there for $13 an hour. Bring camping and raingear, groceries, and a few gloves for the hoedad hand, and be ready for fall season. I think the minimum to stay on the crew these days is 1000 plugs (seedlings with roots in a little plug of dirt- you can pack 250 or so at a time as your plant across the clearcuts or burns) per day- might be 1500. Sometimes there's draw money available if you need a new pair of boots, but not until you get a few days in.

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from buckhunter wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

If you call any major corporation in this country you will be given a choice to speak in English or Spanish. Why? Because the corporations realize that an ever increasing amount of the population is Spanish speaking and they simply want their business.

I see some of the same reasoning with this blog post. If we as a country are to move forward with conservation efforts we must educate all and not just part of the population. Conservation after all is a grass roots effort. It only works (on the most part) if we get individuals to follow the plan.

The big question is will an increase in hunters via the Spanish speaking population further tax our already over burdened resources? Will the increase in revenue from additional licenses and fees sold be able to keep up with further demand? I can see no bad with having too many people buying hunting and fishing licenses.

My experience with the local Spanish population is that they come to this country on a work visa, work very hard, live 5-10 in one house yet send money home to their families while barely getting by here. I know this does not fit the description of all but where I come from it fits the description of the vast majority.

This subject has nothing to do with illegal immigration but more with education.

Should F&S print a Spanish edition? Hell yes. I think it's a great idea.

Let the (-1's) commence.

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from shane wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

"as so many laws based in how we wish the world would be, rather than as it is, tend to do"

Amen.

But I can't agree with catering to anyone's lack of English. We can't be printing everything up in everybody's language. Anyone that wants to live somewhere else learns the language. It's no different here for anyone.

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from Bob81 wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

Hal,
Great article. While some of us can sit around and lament the fact there are people in this country that don't speak English, the reality is that there are. To deny this and not bring them into the fold is most likely self-destructive.

As a side-note, I personally know a number of American business people that are now working and living abroad in places such as Japan and yes, Mexico. While most of them are working hard to learn the native tongue, we are perhaps giving ourselves too much credit to think every time an American moves somewhere, they are any more fluent upon arrival than your average Mexican immigrant.

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from seadog wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

I say if you can sell 'em, then print 'em. Capitalism 101.

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from dukkillr wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

Except most reg booklets are given free, right? At least, that's how it works in NC...

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from rock rat wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

If you copy and paste the following

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout...

You'll see this entire blog post translated into Thai, it was the closest I could get to Laotian.

We're no longer limited by language. Unfortunately it's the older fellas that hunt and fish, and they certainly don't know how to use a computer. I remember reading recently about a hunting and fishing radio show in Hmong language out in California. The Hmong are by far the best hunters I've ever seen. If every Hmong who wanted to was encouraged to hunt you'd have about 100% participation by every guy over 45. That's about the cut off point for those who grew up in the forest.

I'd say the hunting participation period needs to be expanded. Last night I read another anti hunting rant, more people advocating for hunting in any language is a big plus.

PS I understood the original article just fine,

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from Moishe wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

Rockrat, I am one of those older guys who hunts,fishes,shoots targets speaks 4 Languages from having been assigned to 5 overseas areas in the Army and GS jobs after. I was required to learn the languages of the countries to which I was assigned. NO OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD WILL ALLOW PEOPLE TO LIVE THERE without a basic knowledge of the language none will hire you to work unless you can speak read and write and learn the Language well enough. If someone wants to come here, learn our language which is ENGLISH good for them, if not let them stay home.

I spent time in the Central Highlands with the Mountagard's ate their food and stayed in their huts, I have also lived in Germany Belgium Gum and Isreal on assignments so does KILO MIKE ALPHA sound familiar to you?

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from seadog wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

Lima Mike Alpha Oscar

rock rat, do you think our kids log on and type for us? I was going to let your insult to the elderly pass, but after Moishe told you to Kilo Hotel Alpha, I felt the need to pretend to be deeply offended by your insensitivity and disrespect for those of us with more experience. Some of us actually know how to turn on the computer. Even though I have tough skin (as does Moishe), I feel I would be remiss if I didn't tell you, even if in jest, to Kilo Mike Alpha too.

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from MLH wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

I agree with buckhunter that corporations see the benefit in marketing in other languages ($$$) - Spanish is just the beginning in some areas ... press 3 for Chinese, press 4 for Korean .... reach out to people in whatever language you feel necessary, but the language here is English and ought to stay that way.

I intimately understand what it is like to be in the heart of nowhere and not understand the language and the writings, much less the mores and norms - that qualified me for being less than illiterate in those countries. I respected that, though, and managed to get by. I was definitely at a loss by not being able to read or understand the language but I found out what was important the old fashioned way - by talking with people and gradually beginning to learn the language. I truly think we make it too easy for people to not have to learn the language, which keeps them separated and isolated ... that is not good for the future of this county.

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from hal herring wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

I agree, MLH. I think it is crucial to learn English if you want to live and thrive here in the US. We don't want to be the Balkans, and we don't want the Canadian model where we celebrate everybody elses culture while losing our own. I am concerned though, that we might be letting that English speaking tail wag that conservation dog. I'm concerned that it could wag him against the wall so hard it kills him.

By the time we have convinced all the immigrants to learn English, we may have a government voted in by a generation of citizens who have no idea who Aldo Leopold is, or why T Roosevelt felt it was so important to create the public lands and National Parks. Why we have clean water. There are big interests in our world who would love to take advantage of millions of people who have that kind of ignorance. Imagine some politician of the future: "Hey, folks, we're selling off the National Forests to pay down the deficit- great idea, right? You've never been there anyway, and don't even know why we have those lands- it means nothing to you, right? I mean, you don't hunt or fish...you don't even know how to get a license." "Heck, there's never been any fish in that river! My factory got nothing to do with it!" "Yeah, well, that Game Management Area was blocking the plans for the new golf course, and nobody around here hunts anyway."

I'd prefer it if those Hmongs mentioned above, and the legal Mexican-American folks, etc. had somebody to explain to them how to get hunting and fishing licenses, and why we still have fish and game to fish and
hunt for. We can still get 'em to speak English, too.

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from blackdawgz wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

The most important issues here have been forgotten.

This country was stolen from some of my ancestors...the Native Americans.

Now, the invaders and real estate slickers ($20 worth of beads for Manhattan Island) want to impose their language and keep anybody else from coming in.

No white people should complain about immigrants or demographic trends.

After all, both English and the Romance languages are Latin-derived.

Englishmen were nothing more than Cave-dwellers before the Romans arrived in what was to become the United Kingdom.

The corruption in Mexico is no different from what is in Obama's Government.

What is going to happen is that Mexicans are re-acquiring the Southwest and the Rockies , which were unfairly taken from them in the First Place.

Not to mention Texas.

If somebody has something positive to contribute, it puts them ahead of 90% of the obesities already here who have not a clue of What the Constitution Means, and who will stampede the Other Way over Constitutional Issues..

Anybody who wants to exclude foreigners from this continent should start with themselves and buy themselves a boat ticket back to Merry Olde England.

Everybody seems to have forgotten that The Constitutional Laws apply to everyone and should be held sacred.

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from RiceJ wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

blackdawgz:

"Native Americans?" Huh??? "your people" were neither native (they came here from Asia) and certainly not American (which is a white man's word btw -- Amerigo Vespuci). The reality is that they were more or less the blood enemies of the American people, government and army for to Geronimo. The Indians lost (in maover 250 years -- from Jamestown ny cases, honorobly) and you today are probably better off for it so ease up on the cheap shots and insults "on my people." I don't go about moaning that my distant European ancestors were conquered, Christianized by force and in many cases enslaved by the Romans way back when. My ancestors suffered I am sure, but the reality is that I am now the benefactor of what happened. I might be mistaken, but my hunch is that given the choice of going back to a stone age Indian lifestyle and brutally short lifespan, or, living within a "Merry olde England" anglo American civilization that you would choose the latter. Food for thought...

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from RiceJ wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

should read... "The reality is that they were more or less the blood enemies of the American people, government and army for over 250 years -- from Jamestown to Geronimo. The Indians lost (in many cases, honorably) and you today are probably better off for it so ease up on the cheap shots and insults "on my people."

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from Sage Sam wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

While it seems that the intent may have been missed, another brilliant article Hal.

The question of how you install a conservation ethic in folks whose culture is devoid of said elements or sentiments is a riddle we need to answer. As Hal points out, sooner than later the plurality in this country will be made up of Hispanic folks, who have even less of a cultural identify infused with historical examples of conservation. The idea of at least translating regulatory texts into Spanish will be one that I bring up at the next Wildlife Commission meeting, for it is a good one.

This isn't the notion of capitulating on securing our borders or enforcing our immigration laws. It's about being pragmatic. The vast majority of immigrants---legal or illegal---will not be heading back to their homelands and they will be part of securing our conservation future.

Segregating immigrants (legal or otherwise) from involving themselves into the struggle to protect and further secure our conservation heritage is akin to tying one hand behind our backs while banging our heads against the wall. Promoting ignorance of Teddy's/Leopold's/Muir's/Brower's/Abbey's/Range's legacy is a recipe for denuded landscapes and paltry wildlife populations---otherwise known as historical and present day Mexico.

Then again, I'm still a proponent of handing over a good rifle and a box of ammo and pointing them in the direction of Mexico City.

Keep up the good work Hal.

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from sjsmarais@gmail.com wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

Good article Hal. Unfortunately most English speaking hunters have no idea who Aldo Leopold is either. It would be great if F&S could publish an essay a month from 'A Sand County Almanac'.

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from blackdawgz wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

Of course, there's more...

When I was in Arizona, I got a Real Estate license and gained employment immediately because I had cut the record time in half for passing the State Real Estate Exam.

There were, at the time, over 200,000 active licenses.

I went to a Century21 Seminar and got into a conversation with a Chinese guy who could barely make himself understood in English.

Of course, I recommended that he study the language and become fluent.

At which he laughed and informed me, "The Indians around here speak Chinese and they trust me."

Think about it.

They retain their native tongue after thousands of years.

If the Indians had prevailed, we'd all be speaking Chinese and ye'd be seeing none of the Roman Columns and Architecture that are constant brainwashings to remind us that it's the Roman Whiteboys who are in Power.

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from Moishe wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

sjsmarais@gmail.com wrote 5 hours 45 min ago

Good article Hal. Unfortunately most English speaking hunters have no idea who Aldo Leopold is either. It would be great if F&S could publish an essay a month from 'A Sand County Almanac

Another phony elitist speaks?

From the Dust cover of my copy.

Aldo Leopold is considered by many to have been the most influential conservation thinker of the 20th Century. Leopold's legacy spans the disciplines of forestry, wildlife management, conservation biology, sustainable agriculture, restoration ecology, private land management, environmental history, literature, education, esthetics, and ethics. He is most widely known as the author of A Sand County Almanac, one of the most beloved and respected books about the environment ever published. The Leopold Collection houses the raw materials that document not only Leopold's rise to prominence but the history of conservation and the emergence of the field of ecology from the early 1900s until his death in 1948

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from Moishe wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

Seadog! Anchors Away / Garry Owen.

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from Moishe wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

rockrat, further, I would put my 'yards up against you Hmongs any day.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

Blackdawgz

Chinese speaking Indians? Do expound on that one, sir. I'm curious.

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from Bob81 wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

Moishe,
"NO OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD WILL ALLOW PEOPLE TO LIVE THERE without a basic knowledge of the language none will hire you to work unless you can speak read and write and learn the Language well enough."

That is not even close to right. Requirements for citizenship vary, but I could introduce you to dozens of friends and coworkers that lived in Japan, India, China etc, for extended periods and barely knew enough of the language to order lunch when they came back.

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from Dcast wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

Let me clear this up as to my comments/views that I posted.

1) This isn't about any one race this is about the preservation of The United States of America! Which includes all races, religions, and creeds.
2) History shows from the beginning of time that all civilizations fall from from immigration.
3) If we allow 10-25 million immigrants legal or illegal to come to America every 10 yrs. America and our heritage and everything that makes this the greatest country that God gave man will cease to exist.
4) Where and how do we provide for this many immigrants?
5) When is enough enough?
6) If we don't control who and how we allow people to come into America how can we control them once they are here?
7) Wouldn't it be better to expand and apply our conservation knowledge to those countries rather than just apply them here. After all they have game that we do not have here, so I would have to think that conservation in their own countries would be far more beneficial to them. Why wouldn't we send people with the knowledge and know how there to help train an educate them?
8) Wouldn't we be defeating the purpose of conservation by continueing to allow millions of people to immigrate to America on an endless basis?

Blackdawgz, Yes the "Great White Devil", immigrated to your ancestors "Country", so it makes my point in item 2 of this post. Yes, my ancestors did invade and take over your ancestors land, we did however make it the greatest country God gave man with the help of all that inhabited it. So now we're find ourselves at the end of the road, and we need to make a decision:

1) Do we allow the land flowing of milk and honey to continue on its course it is on now with it's " Welcome walk on in borders"?
OR
2) Do we make the land flowing of milk and honey better than it has been in the past century with the means we already have?

I pick option #2. Hal and all I understand the article, but do not agree with everything in it. I don't agree that the only way to preserve our land is to hire immigrant, or that immigrants are the only ones who'll do the work, or immigrant are far harder workers, and printing every document we have in Spanish or any other langauge? I don't agree and I know the majority of the American people agree that we don't have to just turn a blind eye and back down and let happen what is "Inevitable" the American people are better and far stronger than that. I do whole heartedly agree that we need to do something about our current water,forestry, and land issues.

Hal I'm sorry that your article was so controversial and misunderstood by people like myself, but the political enviroment today is toxic. Like I posted earlier your article can be interpreted very differently than what your intended point was.

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from Moishe wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

Bob 81, There are exceptions I suppose, but I am talking about trying to immigrate that and get a work permit.

But generally speaking it's pretty well practiced in most countries.

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from Moishe wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

WAM, historically speaking, the people we call Indians crossed the land bridge that existed in the area of the Bering Straight from Mongolia,Chine an Siberia be for recorded history.

Right dawgs?

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from rock rat wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

Moishe I was talking about Hmong above the age of 45 not being able to use computers much. I know a lot of Hmong in the US, don't know of any older guys that can use a computer. They're often fluent in many languages but they can't read or write any.

The Montegyards are mostly Hmong and Yao, with some Akha etc. Great hunters all, they guys who grew up there anyay.

Back to the subject, it is a shame more don't learn English. Language ability in the country in which you live is extremely important. English is now the de facto lingua franca worldwide. Everyone who goes to university worldwide learns English.

We should encourage it's use here for many good reasons already put forth.

Would be nice to see more people taking up hunting, long as they draw licenses in y'all's states not mine. ;-)

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from countitandone wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

The fact of the matter ~ the Hispanic speaking sector is the largest growing segment in America. Discuss all you want about who was here first. Your point is mute.

Like it or not, they're here and more are coming. The new numbers by 2050 reads 29% of our United States population; that up by 4% ten years ago, 2000.

The Bonnier Corporation will publish long after we are dead and buried. And they will publish in Spanish. $$$$$!

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from blackdawgz wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

WA Mtnhunter:

Yep, had to figure it out myself.

If you remember where "Indians" Come from.

Mongolia.

Walked across into North America thousands of years ago and spread in all directions, speaking Chinese every inch of the way.

They were very isolated in Arizona.

They did not breed with the Neanderthals or other tribes.

I stopped at the Navajo reservation for gas and I thought I had gotten lost and gone to Chinatown.

I enjoy this kind of thing.

I'm sure you will also be interested to know that they also brought, from Mongolia, the precursor to the Labrador Dawg.

The Dawgz wuz "discovered" in interior Newfoundland in 1662 by English explorers, "playing and cavorting in a stream."

Out in the wilderness all by themselves, right?

Historians can find no other dog like them in European History.

It explains the Black Wolves of the region, as well as the fighting ability of The Dawgz.

Silver Labs today have had their color traced to authentic Wolves via DNA analysis.

They had been "bred" by the Cajun/Indians for behavior traits, and were of every size and color.

The 2nd Earl of Malmesbury imported mebbe a dozen of the smaller, short-haired Lesser Newfoundlands to England in the 1820's.

A sailor had brought one to the Earl's gameskeeper previously as a gift, as he wuz courting the gameskeeper's daughter.

They were incorrectly renamed "Labradors."

And bred for pure black.

Most had white muzzles and feet and a white stripe from chin to belly.

Anything except solid black wuz killed or given away and not bred back.

My Woofie is of entirely English breeding and he has huge heavy lips and big floppy ears and distinctive white marks, and some people insist he's a Noofie.

And he actually is!

But he also is a Registered Labrador and he has 19 Hall of Famers in his pedigree.

He'll do.

The Labs at Buccleuch Castle in Scotland (The Duke of Buccleuch wuz the 2nd Earl's brother) are 100% pure for the Newfoundland.

The brothers competed against each other.

One trial would be held in Scotland for driven upland birds.

It wuz the model for early American Trials.

The trials hosted by the Earl in England used ducks.

When I wuz a small boy, the ducks were still only being hobbled by a light cord.

Good History.

I'm beginning to enjoy World History.

How much wuz left out.

How much wuz re-written.

Remember the Tamerlane bows of the 60's?

Actually Timur The Lame.

Found his history in Wikipedia and read it last night.

Interesting.

Much later than the Indian Migration, but he did a lot of conquering with another grandson of Gengis Khan.

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from Moishe wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

Good stuff dawgz

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from Dcast wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

I'm not sure what all the arguments over who was where first, but if you follow the Holy Bible like I do you all would realize "WE ALL ARE IMMIGRANTS TO WHERE EVER WE ARE RIGHT NOW"! May I also point out that over immigration was a problem in biblical days also and was handled by death or deportation! Fortunately for immigrants today they are more than likely going to be deported! Well maybe!

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from shadbuster wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

Wow, a coherent and mature discussion about immigration, haven't seen one of these in a while! I do agree with the article that we have to address the fact that people who do not speak English live among us, we may not like it but its reality, we need to show them the respect of the outdoors we have, especially since many immigrants have very close ties to the land already.

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from Beekeeper wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

As with Buckhunter in my part of the world Mexican, Guatemalan and other Spanish speaking workers send a lion's share of their wages back home, so do other workers on visas. Shared housing, shared cars and shared identity go along hand in hand. This does not follow the model of the European immigrant of old who had a skill and came here with the idea of prospering under a system that would allow them to.

Coming here to work under a visa is not immigration with the purpose of citizenship. I fully understand that we have a lazy society and a significant portion of said will not do the labor intensive jobs we now largely pay Spanish speaking labor to do. These visa workers add nothing to our society but a cheap labor source and the resultant largess. I see this labor force every day in my job. Yes, Mr. Herring they do admire our natural resources. I promise you they also take advantage of it while they are here by applying some of the same techniques used in their home land to acquire game meat and fish.

This by and large transient labor force does not contribute to fabric of our society. They exist here to make money and send it home. They then return there to live above the means of their neighbors one day. If you don’t believe that ask one.

The official language of this country is English. If I immigrate to Italy or Mexico or China I will be expected to learn the native language or suffer along until I do. Yes businesses have realized that if they offer Spanish options they will capture another audience and the attentive dollars. By not assimilating these people into the fabric of our culture, the melting pot if you please, we do nothing for them or our society in the long run.

If individuals immigrate legally into this country and follow the due process of seeking citizenship they should learn to be proficient in English thus weaving themselves into society. They should also be expected to understand why and how the country came into being. In the old days this resulted in a new found pride of becoming an American even if they did live in “Little fill in the blank...”

If one travels in Europe you find a great many individuals who have troubled themselves to learn other languages. Yes, these countries are more like our larger states in size and movement of people and commerce. This does allow for easier up take but I offer the same could happen here if encouraged as I have seen it myself. I know a young man from Oaxaca that speaks Spanish, English, Portuguese and Chinese (he once worked in a Chinese Restaurant). His attitude is that if you move to a country or work with their people you should learn to assimilate and speak the native tongue. Yes he is here legally.

One thing you also find in most European countries immigration laws is a “skill requirement.” They protect their labor force by allowing in only the individuals that possess a skill that directly benefits the country. The Irish Republic is a prime example of this. It also keeps out the lifeboat types that in moderate to large numbers place a burden on the public coffers as they now do in the US.

Do we do these people a favor by providing this linguistic crutch? I think not.

You are now free to apply all the minuses you see fit…

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from hal herring wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

Beekeeper,

I agree with you on all of it except for one point, and I'll pose my disagreement as a question to your question: "Do we do these people a favor by providing this linguistic crutch? I think not."

Do we do ourselves a favor by ensuring, through our insistence that everybody speak English, right now, that the fastest growing demographic in our nation knows nothing about our history of conservation, our fight for clean water and air, our love of bass and trout and whitetails, in short, how we fought for, rstored and kept, all the things that we here on this website spend most of our lives enjoying? How does that bode for the future?

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from shane wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

"we may have a government voted in by a generation of citizens who have no idea who Aldo Leopold is, or why T Roosevelt felt it was so important to create the public lands and National Parks. Why we have clean water. There are big interests in our world who would love to take advantage of millions of people who have that kind of ignorance."

Already the case.

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from Dcast wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

"we may have a government voted in by a generation of citizens who have no idea who Aldo Leopold is, or why T Roosevelt felt it was so important to create the public lands and National Parks. Why we have clean water. There are big interests in our world who would love to take advantage of millions of people who have that kind of ignorance."~Shane

May I correct you! We have government that was elected in by the lack of journalism, lies, deception, and brainwashing! Also many may not know who Aldo Leopold and Teddy Roosevelt is, but I think they fully understand the concept and need for conservation. We also understand the need for our country to remain sovereign. We understand we need to limit the deterioration of our values, heritage, laws, and ability to stay the greatest land God gave man!

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from blackdawgz wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

Moishe -

Thet's how the story goes.

It's interesting.

Columbus is responsible for the misnomer, as, when he landed and proclaimed the place to be the West Indies, he thought the people to be natives of India.

They inhabited the Caribbean, Mexico, Northern Alaska, the entire Eastern seaboard and everything in between.

The only reason they did not fight off the European Invasion is that there had never been a need for a Gengis Khan, as they imagined the land to be infinite.

Timur the Lame's Army showed that the greater gene pool had the capability, having killed over 100,000 people in a single day.

Ah reckon they could have held the fort!

But I must offer up another story here for your entertainment.

Having moved to the Pacific Northwest, I studied some of the local history as well.

The county that I live in (Skamania) used to stretch all the way back across Idaho and Montana to the Continental divide.

I live alongside the Lewis and Clark Trail.

There are stone tools in the creek on this property that are ground from stone, predating Flint.

Turns out thet Lewis and Clark were just on a money-making expedition and trying to appear to be explorers.

It was commonplace for Indians to walk from the Divide to vacation on the Pacific Beaches and walk back before the snow flew.

There were villages all along the way, connected by established trails.

True that the forests are impassable, but thet's where the natives used dugouts.

The Eastward migration was no overnight thing.

People stayed in certain locations for so long that their languages changed.

And thet is the only way the Eastern tribes can be told apart.

But they had established a well-known network of villages and trails thet led to the East coast as well.

Of course, "Mexicans" are Spanish/Indian.

And the Spanish are Roman/Moorish.

I've met both Mexicans and Indians who speak better English than I do.

But I also speak Fortran, Basic, and C, etc. well enough to do anything technical.

To me , race and language are transparent.

Certain people get into this country and perform tasks as is allowed by our economic system, as dictated by major agricultural interests.

One fruit grower in California said, "Without migrant labor, there would be no fruit crop."

And thet's whut it comes down to.

They are overriding laws to get the crops picked.

It is not about race, color, or language.

It is not about building the ideal citizen.

It is about today's net profit and thet's all.

They are hiring hands to pick the crops and thet's all.

And it's like Beekeeper said...

Once they get their, money, they go back home.

So I don't guess it would be worth changing the language of F&S.

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from Beekeeper wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

Mr. Herring,

I do not believe that learning about our conservation heritage or anything else about our heritage concerns nor interests the modern day "visa worker". They are concerned with only the availability of jobs and the resulting pay.

I'll give you a local example. Our area once had a thriving building industry and also one of the largest concentrations of Dairy farms in the Southeast. Both these industries depended heavily on Spanish speaking labor. The Dairy farms began to die out due to increased input costs and low prices for fluid milk; we are not a cheese or butter state. Said workers moved into the construction and landscaping industries. When the economy crashed and along with it our building industry; the workers moved back south of the border. They did not stay and seek out citizenship and a job at McDonalds, Wal-Mart or the hospital. They did not try and open their own landscape business, they went back home!

Would a more thorough understanding of our history of conservation kept them here?

¿Hablas español Herring? Si es así, será capaz de leer mi último comentario. Este país es un crisol de nacionalidades que hasta ahora han estado dispuestos a aprender el idioma nacional. ¿Por qué el francés, polaco, alemán, inmigrantes italianos y eslavos se molestan en aprender nuestro idioma?

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from jamesti wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

well said beekeeper.
mr. herring, if you want to teach a bunch of immigrants about conservation and our culture or whatever, you go ahead and do it. you would be better off if you teach them english first so you can understand them when they are mumbling under their breath, "i don't give a sh** about any of this. where's my check"?

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from Beekeeper wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

News flash...

Grant County man faces attempted-murder
charge after shooting at Fish and Wildlife police

EPHRATA - An 18-year-old Mattawa man has been charged with attempted first-degree murder, after shooting at a Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) police captain Saturday in Grant County.
The man is being held in Grant County Jail on $1 million bail, along with his 60-year-old father, who drew a knife on another WDFW police officer. The father has been charged with second-degree assault, and is being held on $100,000 bail. The men, who made a preliminary appearance today in Grant County Superior Court, are to be formally arraigned next Monday. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement has also placed holds on both men.
The two were arrested Saturday evening, following a vehicle pursuit by WDFW and the State Patrol on State Route 28 near Ephrata.
The incident began about 8:30 p.m. Saturday, when WDFW Officer Chad McGary was checking anglers at Crab Creek, a popular fishing area near Beverly in Grant County. McGary contacted the 18 year old, who had been fishing but did not possess a fishing license. As McGary was escorting the suspect back to his vehicle, to confirm whether he had purchased a license, the man drew a gun and pointed it at the officer. The man’s father also approached the officer, brandishing a knife.
The young man then escaped to a car and was pursued by WDFW Capt. Chris Anderson. During the pursuit, the suspect turned his vehicle around and drove toward Anderson’s marked police vehicle, firing shots and penetrating the driver’s side door with one round. Anderson returned fire after the suspect attempted to shoot at him a second time.
After a pursuit of several miles, the suspect was apprehended after his car stalled on State Route 28 near Ephrata.
The young man was booked into Grant County Jail for alleged attempted murder in the first degree. The suspect’s father was booked for alleged assault and for an outstanding felony warrant on an unrelated charge.
The incident is being investigated by the Columbia Basin Investigative Team, a regional law-enforcement consortium. Investigations are routinely conducted following police use of force involving firearms.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

Se Hable gangbanger?

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from jamesti wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

don't forget to read them their rights in 5 different languages.

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from hal herring wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

See what I mean beekeeper? If that feller had access to Spanish langauge fishing regs, and a Spanish language license and guide to conservation, there'd have been no knife or gun play, no high speed chase!

Just kidding. This has been fun and ...instructive.

jamesti, I figured out how to undertsand what my conservation students will be mumbling-

"me importa un huevo! Donde esta mi cheque?"

Thanks everybody, for your comments.

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from Beekeeper wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

Hal,

I too have enjoyed this debate. We kept it clean and above board... for once!

I think we need more of these thought exercises. Thank you for posing the question and offering valid counterpoints. Certainly stimulating discourse!

For those of you who don't read Spanish I'll translate my last question for Mr. Herring.

"Do you speak Spanish Mr. Herring? If so you will be able to read my last comment. This country is a melting pot of nationalities which so far have been willing to learn the national language. Why did the French, Polish, German, Italian and Slavic immigrants bother to learn our language?"

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 weeks 22 hours ago

I guess even my Irish ancestors had to learn English as a second language! LOL

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from wapiti350 wrote 4 weeks 1 day ago

Emmigrants shall serve 2years in the armed forces and learn english in order to be come part of our country. we shall not bow down and press one for english. That is the way it should be.

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from 1savage99 wrote 2 weeks 4 days ago

The spanish language legal and illegal laborers you wrote about probably are the guys we would all like for neighbors, but that's not the majority of the population.

As a teacher in a agricultural community, I know many of the mexican illegals don't read in there own language, which is rarely spanish, so what good is printing a spanish language version. They don't follow general health instructions already given them in spanish, which is why fetal alcohol syndrome and Downs syndrome which is relatively rare in other populations is epidemic in the immigrant hispanic populations.

And since they don't respect our basic laws such as driving with insurance, driving with a license, honestly coming to our country, or registering vehicles why would they honestly follow our hunting and fishing laws.

Poaching by illegals have ruined some great hunting and fishing areas here in California. They also have turned some great spots into garbage dumps and painted graffiti all over the boulders along the streams. There are even signs in spanish telling them to "Pon la basura en el basurero" or as your mother would say "Put the trash in the trash can."

Common sense tells us not to litter. The problem is cultural, as what is common to us is not common to them. Nor do they respect our land as many have the attitude that they are here just to get their stake and then go back home, even if they never do.

Sorry for the ramble

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from jamesti wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

this has got to be one of the worst blogs i have ever seen on this site! are you kidding? you talk about how these people came here and see all the wonderful things this country and how all the great things in mexico have been ruined by corruption and pollution. guess what! they can blame themselves for it! they let it happen! if you don't like being robbed by your own police or government, get rid of them. that's why firearms are so feared in this country. because with them we have the means to protect ourselves. not just from petty criminals, but from a corrupt government. if they want a country they can be proud of and live in peace and prosperity, THEY need to do something about it instead of running away from it. overthrow your corrupt government and start doing something about the problem! don't expect me to feel sorry for any of them and i certainly don't agree with your proposal to turn this country into their country! learn english!!!

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from Dcast wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

Wait a second who really wrote this bed time story? Obama?

Mr. Herring with all due respect, how will legal or illegal imigration help conservation? I don't think that your very opinionated bedtime article would promote conservation and in fact would create more issues in the conservation industry. By adding millions upon millions of immigrants to a nation that is fully occupied/or very close would ruin very pristine locations to make room for ever increasing number of immigrants legal and illegal. The reason why your co-workers were in awe of your work location is because they don't have that habitat in their country, and if they did it would be ruined in very short order like the majority of Mexico. Their government and country lack the ability to enforce laws and regulations. I would have to make an educated guess that we would not be able to force them to follow our laws and regulations, much like they do not now. The problem is they don't respect what they have or had and its a country that is every man, women, and child for themselves whether it is breaking laws, stealing, selling drugs. The USA is to a point now that we cannot afford and should not support anymore immigrant until we get under fiscal integrity. May I also point out that their are no laws and no people that call for prejudice/or should I say what you meant or wanted to say "Racial Profiling".

We have what we need now to sustain the hunting, fishing and conservation industries without the help of another corrupt country and people.

I find this article a sad and inaccurate portrail of a call for conservation. It was more of a back door plea for amnesty than a conservation article!

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from Beekeeper wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

As with Buckhunter in my part of the world Mexican, Guatemalan and other Spanish speaking workers send a lion's share of their wages back home, so do other workers on visas. Shared housing, shared cars and shared identity go along hand in hand. This does not follow the model of the European immigrant of old who had a skill and came here with the idea of prospering under a system that would allow them to.

Coming here to work under a visa is not immigration with the purpose of citizenship. I fully understand that we have a lazy society and a significant portion of said will not do the labor intensive jobs we now largely pay Spanish speaking labor to do. These visa workers add nothing to our society but a cheap labor source and the resultant largess. I see this labor force every day in my job. Yes, Mr. Herring they do admire our natural resources. I promise you they also take advantage of it while they are here by applying some of the same techniques used in their home land to acquire game meat and fish.

This by and large transient labor force does not contribute to fabric of our society. They exist here to make money and send it home. They then return there to live above the means of their neighbors one day. If you don’t believe that ask one.

The official language of this country is English. If I immigrate to Italy or Mexico or China I will be expected to learn the native language or suffer along until I do. Yes businesses have realized that if they offer Spanish options they will capture another audience and the attentive dollars. By not assimilating these people into the fabric of our culture, the melting pot if you please, we do nothing for them or our society in the long run.

If individuals immigrate legally into this country and follow the due process of seeking citizenship they should learn to be proficient in English thus weaving themselves into society. They should also be expected to understand why and how the country came into being. In the old days this resulted in a new found pride of becoming an American even if they did live in “Little fill in the blank...”

If one travels in Europe you find a great many individuals who have troubled themselves to learn other languages. Yes, these countries are more like our larger states in size and movement of people and commerce. This does allow for easier up take but I offer the same could happen here if encouraged as I have seen it myself. I know a young man from Oaxaca that speaks Spanish, English, Portuguese and Chinese (he once worked in a Chinese Restaurant). His attitude is that if you move to a country or work with their people you should learn to assimilate and speak the native tongue. Yes he is here legally.

One thing you also find in most European countries immigration laws is a “skill requirement.” They protect their labor force by allowing in only the individuals that possess a skill that directly benefits the country. The Irish Republic is a prime example of this. It also keeps out the lifeboat types that in moderate to large numbers place a burden on the public coffers as they now do in the US.

Do we do these people a favor by providing this linguistic crutch? I think not.

You are now free to apply all the minuses you see fit…

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from shane wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

"as so many laws based in how we wish the world would be, rather than as it is, tend to do"

Amen.

But I can't agree with catering to anyone's lack of English. We can't be printing everything up in everybody's language. Anyone that wants to live somewhere else learns the language. It's no different here for anyone.

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from blackdawgz wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

WA Mtnhunter:

Yep, had to figure it out myself.

If you remember where "Indians" Come from.

Mongolia.

Walked across into North America thousands of years ago and spread in all directions, speaking Chinese every inch of the way.

They were very isolated in Arizona.

They did not breed with the Neanderthals or other tribes.

I stopped at the Navajo reservation for gas and I thought I had gotten lost and gone to Chinatown.

I enjoy this kind of thing.

I'm sure you will also be interested to know that they also brought, from Mongolia, the precursor to the Labrador Dawg.

The Dawgz wuz "discovered" in interior Newfoundland in 1662 by English explorers, "playing and cavorting in a stream."

Out in the wilderness all by themselves, right?

Historians can find no other dog like them in European History.

It explains the Black Wolves of the region, as well as the fighting ability of The Dawgz.

Silver Labs today have had their color traced to authentic Wolves via DNA analysis.

They had been "bred" by the Cajun/Indians for behavior traits, and were of every size and color.

The 2nd Earl of Malmesbury imported mebbe a dozen of the smaller, short-haired Lesser Newfoundlands to England in the 1820's.

A sailor had brought one to the Earl's gameskeeper previously as a gift, as he wuz courting the gameskeeper's daughter.

They were incorrectly renamed "Labradors."

And bred for pure black.

Most had white muzzles and feet and a white stripe from chin to belly.

Anything except solid black wuz killed or given away and not bred back.

My Woofie is of entirely English breeding and he has huge heavy lips and big floppy ears and distinctive white marks, and some people insist he's a Noofie.

And he actually is!

But he also is a Registered Labrador and he has 19 Hall of Famers in his pedigree.

He'll do.

The Labs at Buccleuch Castle in Scotland (The Duke of Buccleuch wuz the 2nd Earl's brother) are 100% pure for the Newfoundland.

The brothers competed against each other.

One trial would be held in Scotland for driven upland birds.

It wuz the model for early American Trials.

The trials hosted by the Earl in England used ducks.

When I wuz a small boy, the ducks were still only being hobbled by a light cord.

Good History.

I'm beginning to enjoy World History.

How much wuz left out.

How much wuz re-written.

Remember the Tamerlane bows of the 60's?

Actually Timur The Lame.

Found his history in Wikipedia and read it last night.

Interesting.

Much later than the Indian Migration, but he did a lot of conquering with another grandson of Gengis Khan.

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from hal herring wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

dcast,

Thanks for your reply. No, it's not a call for amnesty. I have a strong feelings about immigration - I actually subscribe to the lifeboat theory, and feel like the lifeboat is too full already. We should have strong controls and limits on immigration. Our current non-policies will deliver us a future that I don't want my children to have to survive in. These policies have also wrecked Mexico, as the best and strongest of their young citizens - the true fighters for change, the ones who could fix Mexico or at least try-- are spending their lives as second-class citizens in the shadows of the US, exploited by the most venal among us.

What I am writing about is reality. Not how I wish it was, or how it should be.

We have, right now, the highest levels of legal immigration into the US ever. Add illegal immigration and what we see makes Ellis Island in 1907 look like a Little League practice run.

From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States

While European-born immigrants accounted for nearly 60% of the total foreign-born population in 1970, they accounted for only 15% in 2000.[27] Immigration doubled between 1965 and 1970, and doubled again between 1970 and 1990.[28] In 1990, President Bush signed the Immigration Act of 1990,[29] which increased legal immigration to the United States by 40%.[30] Nearly 8 million immigrants came to the United States from 2000 to 2005 – more than in any other five-year period in the nation's history.[31] Almost half entered illegally.[32] Since 1986, Congress has passed seven amnesties for illegal immigrants.[33] Hispanic immigrants were among the first victims of the late-2000s recession.[34] While nearly four million Americans lost their jobs in 2009,[35] 1.1 million immigrants were granted legal residence over the same time period.[36] end quote

Treeplanting, by the way, which I did for years(starting in 1983 in Alabama when a buddy answered an ad for outdoor workers he saw in Outside magazine) now pays a flat rate of $13 an hour, and is considered one of the worst jobs in the woods. It used to be one of the best, done by independent contractors, most native-born, who comprised one of the wildest, most free, and strangest bunch of radical outdoor people I've ever been a part of. That's dead.

I don't have to like it, dcast. I just have to try and understand how we might make the best of it. I'm interested in how we keep the ship off the reef, not in freaking out about the fact that the reef is out there. And it is. Waves are crashin, spray's a flyin.'

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from buckhunter wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

If you call any major corporation in this country you will be given a choice to speak in English or Spanish. Why? Because the corporations realize that an ever increasing amount of the population is Spanish speaking and they simply want their business.

I see some of the same reasoning with this blog post. If we as a country are to move forward with conservation efforts we must educate all and not just part of the population. Conservation after all is a grass roots effort. It only works (on the most part) if we get individuals to follow the plan.

The big question is will an increase in hunters via the Spanish speaking population further tax our already over burdened resources? Will the increase in revenue from additional licenses and fees sold be able to keep up with further demand? I can see no bad with having too many people buying hunting and fishing licenses.

My experience with the local Spanish population is that they come to this country on a work visa, work very hard, live 5-10 in one house yet send money home to their families while barely getting by here. I know this does not fit the description of all but where I come from it fits the description of the vast majority.

This subject has nothing to do with illegal immigration but more with education.

Should F&S print a Spanish edition? Hell yes. I think it's a great idea.

Let the (-1's) commence.

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from seadog wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

I say if you can sell 'em, then print 'em. Capitalism 101.

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from Moishe wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

Rockrat, I am one of those older guys who hunts,fishes,shoots targets speaks 4 Languages from having been assigned to 5 overseas areas in the Army and GS jobs after. I was required to learn the languages of the countries to which I was assigned. NO OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD WILL ALLOW PEOPLE TO LIVE THERE without a basic knowledge of the language none will hire you to work unless you can speak read and write and learn the Language well enough. If someone wants to come here, learn our language which is ENGLISH good for them, if not let them stay home.

I spent time in the Central Highlands with the Mountagard's ate their food and stayed in their huts, I have also lived in Germany Belgium Gum and Isreal on assignments so does KILO MIKE ALPHA sound familiar to you?

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from seadog wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

Lima Mike Alpha Oscar

rock rat, do you think our kids log on and type for us? I was going to let your insult to the elderly pass, but after Moishe told you to Kilo Hotel Alpha, I felt the need to pretend to be deeply offended by your insensitivity and disrespect for those of us with more experience. Some of us actually know how to turn on the computer. Even though I have tough skin (as does Moishe), I feel I would be remiss if I didn't tell you, even if in jest, to Kilo Mike Alpha too.

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from MLH wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

I agree with buckhunter that corporations see the benefit in marketing in other languages ($$$) - Spanish is just the beginning in some areas ... press 3 for Chinese, press 4 for Korean .... reach out to people in whatever language you feel necessary, but the language here is English and ought to stay that way.

I intimately understand what it is like to be in the heart of nowhere and not understand the language and the writings, much less the mores and norms - that qualified me for being less than illiterate in those countries. I respected that, though, and managed to get by. I was definitely at a loss by not being able to read or understand the language but I found out what was important the old fashioned way - by talking with people and gradually beginning to learn the language. I truly think we make it too easy for people to not have to learn the language, which keeps them separated and isolated ... that is not good for the future of this county.

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from Dcast wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

Thanks for clearing up your article! I'm not an editor or a writer but I am just an average American that when I read this article didn't see your point to the article. It read more of a political stance to myself wrong or right. Right now with the all that is going on in the USA it is easy for people like myself to oversee the true intent of your article. Just a little constructive critism, I think maybe you should have more specifically described what you had in mind in your article. It had more easily assumed political amnesty view than the intended conservation aspect you were trying to bring to the table. Just my opinion and I'm sure others will see your side than mine.

Also, right now I know millions of people that would kill for a job making $13 an hour. I worked in the construction industry for many years making less and maybe the second most worst job and pay!Luckily I went back to school and landed a job in construction designing rather than the hard labor side.

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from hal herring wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

jamesti

Please read my reply to dcast, above. What we are talking about, mostly, is LEGAL immigration. And right now, the US- our government, not Mexico's- is allowing the highest levels of legal immigration into the US in history. All the while FAILING to addres the highest levels of illegal immigration. Double whammy.

Maybe you and I ought to be talking about how to fix OUR government's policies. Every economic theory we have is based on endless growth. More people need more toothbrushes, more roofs, more gas, more cars. That's good, if you sell those things, right? Well, that seems to be the basis for current immigration policy in the US.

As always, there are quite a few unintended consequences to economic theories. What to do? Well, my simple, naive idea is to give all these folks who aren't going back home an idea of how we got all this stuff we got that we love, so maybe, just maybe, they will love it too and keep it going.

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from hal herring wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

Also, jamesti, those treeplanting jobs are out there for $13 an hour. Bring camping and raingear, groceries, and a few gloves for the hoedad hand, and be ready for fall season. I think the minimum to stay on the crew these days is 1000 plugs (seedlings with roots in a little plug of dirt- you can pack 250 or so at a time as your plant across the clearcuts or burns) per day- might be 1500. Sometimes there's draw money available if you need a new pair of boots, but not until you get a few days in.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

Blackdawgz

Chinese speaking Indians? Do expound on that one, sir. I'm curious.

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from blackdawgz wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

Moishe -

Thet's how the story goes.

It's interesting.

Columbus is responsible for the misnomer, as, when he landed and proclaimed the place to be the West Indies, he thought the people to be natives of India.

They inhabited the Caribbean, Mexico, Northern Alaska, the entire Eastern seaboard and everything in between.

The only reason they did not fight off the European Invasion is that there had never been a need for a Gengis Khan, as they imagined the land to be infinite.

Timur the Lame's Army showed that the greater gene pool had the capability, having killed over 100,000 people in a single day.

Ah reckon they could have held the fort!

But I must offer up another story here for your entertainment.

Having moved to the Pacific Northwest, I studied some of the local history as well.

The county that I live in (Skamania) used to stretch all the way back across Idaho and Montana to the Continental divide.

I live alongside the Lewis and Clark Trail.

There are stone tools in the creek on this property that are ground from stone, predating Flint.

Turns out thet Lewis and Clark were just on a money-making expedition and trying to appear to be explorers.

It was commonplace for Indians to walk from the Divide to vacation on the Pacific Beaches and walk back before the snow flew.

There were villages all along the way, connected by established trails.

True that the forests are impassable, but thet's where the natives used dugouts.

The Eastward migration was no overnight thing.

People stayed in certain locations for so long that their languages changed.

And thet is the only way the Eastern tribes can be told apart.

But they had established a well-known network of villages and trails thet led to the East coast as well.

Of course, "Mexicans" are Spanish/Indian.

And the Spanish are Roman/Moorish.

I've met both Mexicans and Indians who speak better English than I do.

But I also speak Fortran, Basic, and C, etc. well enough to do anything technical.

To me , race and language are transparent.

Certain people get into this country and perform tasks as is allowed by our economic system, as dictated by major agricultural interests.

One fruit grower in California said, "Without migrant labor, there would be no fruit crop."

And thet's whut it comes down to.

They are overriding laws to get the crops picked.

It is not about race, color, or language.

It is not about building the ideal citizen.

It is about today's net profit and thet's all.

They are hiring hands to pick the crops and thet's all.

And it's like Beekeeper said...

Once they get their, money, they go back home.

So I don't guess it would be worth changing the language of F&S.

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from dukkillr wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

Except most reg booklets are given free, right? At least, that's how it works in NC...

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from hal herring wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

I agree, MLH. I think it is crucial to learn English if you want to live and thrive here in the US. We don't want to be the Balkans, and we don't want the Canadian model where we celebrate everybody elses culture while losing our own. I am concerned though, that we might be letting that English speaking tail wag that conservation dog. I'm concerned that it could wag him against the wall so hard it kills him.

By the time we have convinced all the immigrants to learn English, we may have a government voted in by a generation of citizens who have no idea who Aldo Leopold is, or why T Roosevelt felt it was so important to create the public lands and National Parks. Why we have clean water. There are big interests in our world who would love to take advantage of millions of people who have that kind of ignorance. Imagine some politician of the future: "Hey, folks, we're selling off the National Forests to pay down the deficit- great idea, right? You've never been there anyway, and don't even know why we have those lands- it means nothing to you, right? I mean, you don't hunt or fish...you don't even know how to get a license." "Heck, there's never been any fish in that river! My factory got nothing to do with it!" "Yeah, well, that Game Management Area was blocking the plans for the new golf course, and nobody around here hunts anyway."

I'd prefer it if those Hmongs mentioned above, and the legal Mexican-American folks, etc. had somebody to explain to them how to get hunting and fishing licenses, and why we still have fish and game to fish and
hunt for. We can still get 'em to speak English, too.

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from RiceJ wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

blackdawgz:

"Native Americans?" Huh??? "your people" were neither native (they came here from Asia) and certainly not American (which is a white man's word btw -- Amerigo Vespuci). The reality is that they were more or less the blood enemies of the American people, government and army for to Geronimo. The Indians lost (in maover 250 years -- from Jamestown ny cases, honorobly) and you today are probably better off for it so ease up on the cheap shots and insults "on my people." I don't go about moaning that my distant European ancestors were conquered, Christianized by force and in many cases enslaved by the Romans way back when. My ancestors suffered I am sure, but the reality is that I am now the benefactor of what happened. I might be mistaken, but my hunch is that given the choice of going back to a stone age Indian lifestyle and brutally short lifespan, or, living within a "Merry olde England" anglo American civilization that you would choose the latter. Food for thought...

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from blackdawgz wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

Of course, there's more...

When I was in Arizona, I got a Real Estate license and gained employment immediately because I had cut the record time in half for passing the State Real Estate Exam.

There were, at the time, over 200,000 active licenses.

I went to a Century21 Seminar and got into a conversation with a Chinese guy who could barely make himself understood in English.

Of course, I recommended that he study the language and become fluent.

At which he laughed and informed me, "The Indians around here speak Chinese and they trust me."

Think about it.

They retain their native tongue after thousands of years.

If the Indians had prevailed, we'd all be speaking Chinese and ye'd be seeing none of the Roman Columns and Architecture that are constant brainwashings to remind us that it's the Roman Whiteboys who are in Power.

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from Dcast wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

Let me clear this up as to my comments/views that I posted.

1) This isn't about any one race this is about the preservation of The United States of America! Which includes all races, religions, and creeds.
2) History shows from the beginning of time that all civilizations fall from from immigration.
3) If we allow 10-25 million immigrants legal or illegal to come to America every 10 yrs. America and our heritage and everything that makes this the greatest country that God gave man will cease to exist.
4) Where and how do we provide for this many immigrants?
5) When is enough enough?
6) If we don't control who and how we allow people to come into America how can we control them once they are here?
7) Wouldn't it be better to expand and apply our conservation knowledge to those countries rather than just apply them here. After all they have game that we do not have here, so I would have to think that conservation in their own countries would be far more beneficial to them. Why wouldn't we send people with the knowledge and know how there to help train an educate them?
8) Wouldn't we be defeating the purpose of conservation by continueing to allow millions of people to immigrate to America on an endless basis?

Blackdawgz, Yes the "Great White Devil", immigrated to your ancestors "Country", so it makes my point in item 2 of this post. Yes, my ancestors did invade and take over your ancestors land, we did however make it the greatest country God gave man with the help of all that inhabited it. So now we're find ourselves at the end of the road, and we need to make a decision:

1) Do we allow the land flowing of milk and honey to continue on its course it is on now with it's " Welcome walk on in borders"?
OR
2) Do we make the land flowing of milk and honey better than it has been in the past century with the means we already have?

I pick option #2. Hal and all I understand the article, but do not agree with everything in it. I don't agree that the only way to preserve our land is to hire immigrant, or that immigrants are the only ones who'll do the work, or immigrant are far harder workers, and printing every document we have in Spanish or any other langauge? I don't agree and I know the majority of the American people agree that we don't have to just turn a blind eye and back down and let happen what is "Inevitable" the American people are better and far stronger than that. I do whole heartedly agree that we need to do something about our current water,forestry, and land issues.

Hal I'm sorry that your article was so controversial and misunderstood by people like myself, but the political enviroment today is toxic. Like I posted earlier your article can be interpreted very differently than what your intended point was.

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from Moishe wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

Good stuff dawgz

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from Beekeeper wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

Mr. Herring,

I do not believe that learning about our conservation heritage or anything else about our heritage concerns nor interests the modern day "visa worker". They are concerned with only the availability of jobs and the resulting pay.

I'll give you a local example. Our area once had a thriving building industry and also one of the largest concentrations of Dairy farms in the Southeast. Both these industries depended heavily on Spanish speaking labor. The Dairy farms began to die out due to increased input costs and low prices for fluid milk; we are not a cheese or butter state. Said workers moved into the construction and landscaping industries. When the economy crashed and along with it our building industry; the workers moved back south of the border. They did not stay and seek out citizenship and a job at McDonalds, Wal-Mart or the hospital. They did not try and open their own landscape business, they went back home!

Would a more thorough understanding of our history of conservation kept them here?

¿Hablas español Herring? Si es así, será capaz de leer mi último comentario. Este país es un crisol de nacionalidades que hasta ahora han estado dispuestos a aprender el idioma nacional. ¿Por qué el francés, polaco, alemán, inmigrantes italianos y eslavos se molestan en aprender nuestro idioma?

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from Beekeeper wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

News flash...

Grant County man faces attempted-murder
charge after shooting at Fish and Wildlife police

EPHRATA - An 18-year-old Mattawa man has been charged with attempted first-degree murder, after shooting at a Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) police captain Saturday in Grant County.
The man is being held in Grant County Jail on $1 million bail, along with his 60-year-old father, who drew a knife on another WDFW police officer. The father has been charged with second-degree assault, and is being held on $100,000 bail. The men, who made a preliminary appearance today in Grant County Superior Court, are to be formally arraigned next Monday. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement has also placed holds on both men.
The two were arrested Saturday evening, following a vehicle pursuit by WDFW and the State Patrol on State Route 28 near Ephrata.
The incident began about 8:30 p.m. Saturday, when WDFW Officer Chad McGary was checking anglers at Crab Creek, a popular fishing area near Beverly in Grant County. McGary contacted the 18 year old, who had been fishing but did not possess a fishing license. As McGary was escorting the suspect back to his vehicle, to confirm whether he had purchased a license, the man drew a gun and pointed it at the officer. The man’s father also approached the officer, brandishing a knife.
The young man then escaped to a car and was pursued by WDFW Capt. Chris Anderson. During the pursuit, the suspect turned his vehicle around and drove toward Anderson’s marked police vehicle, firing shots and penetrating the driver’s side door with one round. Anderson returned fire after the suspect attempted to shoot at him a second time.
After a pursuit of several miles, the suspect was apprehended after his car stalled on State Route 28 near Ephrata.
The young man was booked into Grant County Jail for alleged attempted murder in the first degree. The suspect’s father was booked for alleged assault and for an outstanding felony warrant on an unrelated charge.
The incident is being investigated by the Columbia Basin Investigative Team, a regional law-enforcement consortium. Investigations are routinely conducted following police use of force involving firearms.

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from jamesti wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

don't forget to read them their rights in 5 different languages.

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from Bob81 wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

Hal,
Great article. While some of us can sit around and lament the fact there are people in this country that don't speak English, the reality is that there are. To deny this and not bring them into the fold is most likely self-destructive.

As a side-note, I personally know a number of American business people that are now working and living abroad in places such as Japan and yes, Mexico. While most of them are working hard to learn the native tongue, we are perhaps giving ourselves too much credit to think every time an American moves somewhere, they are any more fluent upon arrival than your average Mexican immigrant.

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from Sage Sam wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

While it seems that the intent may have been missed, another brilliant article Hal.

The question of how you install a conservation ethic in folks whose culture is devoid of said elements or sentiments is a riddle we need to answer. As Hal points out, sooner than later the plurality in this country will be made up of Hispanic folks, who have even less of a cultural identify infused with historical examples of conservation. The idea of at least translating regulatory texts into Spanish will be one that I bring up at the next Wildlife Commission meeting, for it is a good one.

This isn't the notion of capitulating on securing our borders or enforcing our immigration laws. It's about being pragmatic. The vast majority of immigrants---legal or illegal---will not be heading back to their homelands and they will be part of securing our conservation future.

Segregating immigrants (legal or otherwise) from involving themselves into the struggle to protect and further secure our conservation heritage is akin to tying one hand behind our backs while banging our heads against the wall. Promoting ignorance of Teddy's/Leopold's/Muir's/Brower's/Abbey's/Range's legacy is a recipe for denuded landscapes and paltry wildlife populations---otherwise known as historical and present day Mexico.

Then again, I'm still a proponent of handing over a good rifle and a box of ammo and pointing them in the direction of Mexico City.

Keep up the good work Hal.

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from Moishe wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

rockrat, further, I would put my 'yards up against you Hmongs any day.

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from Moishe wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

WAM, historically speaking, the people we call Indians crossed the land bridge that existed in the area of the Bering Straight from Mongolia,Chine an Siberia be for recorded history.

Right dawgs?

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from rock rat wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

Moishe I was talking about Hmong above the age of 45 not being able to use computers much. I know a lot of Hmong in the US, don't know of any older guys that can use a computer. They're often fluent in many languages but they can't read or write any.

The Montegyards are mostly Hmong and Yao, with some Akha etc. Great hunters all, they guys who grew up there anyay.

Back to the subject, it is a shame more don't learn English. Language ability in the country in which you live is extremely important. English is now the de facto lingua franca worldwide. Everyone who goes to university worldwide learns English.

We should encourage it's use here for many good reasons already put forth.

Would be nice to see more people taking up hunting, long as they draw licenses in y'all's states not mine. ;-)

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from Dcast wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

I'm not sure what all the arguments over who was where first, but if you follow the Holy Bible like I do you all would realize "WE ALL ARE IMMIGRANTS TO WHERE EVER WE ARE RIGHT NOW"! May I also point out that over immigration was a problem in biblical days also and was handled by death or deportation! Fortunately for immigrants today they are more than likely going to be deported! Well maybe!

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from shane wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

"we may have a government voted in by a generation of citizens who have no idea who Aldo Leopold is, or why T Roosevelt felt it was so important to create the public lands and National Parks. Why we have clean water. There are big interests in our world who would love to take advantage of millions of people who have that kind of ignorance."

Already the case.

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from jamesti wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

well said beekeeper.
mr. herring, if you want to teach a bunch of immigrants about conservation and our culture or whatever, you go ahead and do it. you would be better off if you teach them english first so you can understand them when they are mumbling under their breath, "i don't give a sh** about any of this. where's my check"?

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

Se Hable gangbanger?

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from Beekeeper wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

Hal,

I too have enjoyed this debate. We kept it clean and above board... for once!

I think we need more of these thought exercises. Thank you for posing the question and offering valid counterpoints. Certainly stimulating discourse!

For those of you who don't read Spanish I'll translate my last question for Mr. Herring.

"Do you speak Spanish Mr. Herring? If so you will be able to read my last comment. This country is a melting pot of nationalities which so far have been willing to learn the national language. Why did the French, Polish, German, Italian and Slavic immigrants bother to learn our language?"

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 weeks 22 hours ago

I guess even my Irish ancestors had to learn English as a second language! LOL

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from wapiti350 wrote 4 weeks 1 day ago

Emmigrants shall serve 2years in the armed forces and learn english in order to be come part of our country. we shall not bow down and press one for english. That is the way it should be.

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from 1savage99 wrote 2 weeks 4 days ago

The spanish language legal and illegal laborers you wrote about probably are the guys we would all like for neighbors, but that's not the majority of the population.

As a teacher in a agricultural community, I know many of the mexican illegals don't read in there own language, which is rarely spanish, so what good is printing a spanish language version. They don't follow general health instructions already given them in spanish, which is why fetal alcohol syndrome and Downs syndrome which is relatively rare in other populations is epidemic in the immigrant hispanic populations.

And since they don't respect our basic laws such as driving with insurance, driving with a license, honestly coming to our country, or registering vehicles why would they honestly follow our hunting and fishing laws.

Poaching by illegals have ruined some great hunting and fishing areas here in California. They also have turned some great spots into garbage dumps and painted graffiti all over the boulders along the streams. There are even signs in spanish telling them to "Pon la basura en el basurero" or as your mother would say "Put the trash in the trash can."

Common sense tells us not to litter. The problem is cultural, as what is common to us is not common to them. Nor do they respect our land as many have the attitude that they are here just to get their stake and then go back home, even if they never do.

Sorry for the ramble

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from rock rat wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

If you copy and paste the following

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout...

You'll see this entire blog post translated into Thai, it was the closest I could get to Laotian.

We're no longer limited by language. Unfortunately it's the older fellas that hunt and fish, and they certainly don't know how to use a computer. I remember reading recently about a hunting and fishing radio show in Hmong language out in California. The Hmong are by far the best hunters I've ever seen. If every Hmong who wanted to was encouraged to hunt you'd have about 100% participation by every guy over 45. That's about the cut off point for those who grew up in the forest.

I'd say the hunting participation period needs to be expanded. Last night I read another anti hunting rant, more people advocating for hunting in any language is a big plus.

PS I understood the original article just fine,

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from RiceJ wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

should read... "The reality is that they were more or less the blood enemies of the American people, government and army for over 250 years -- from Jamestown to Geronimo. The Indians lost (in many cases, honorably) and you today are probably better off for it so ease up on the cheap shots and insults "on my people."

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from sjsmarais@gmail.com wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

Good article Hal. Unfortunately most English speaking hunters have no idea who Aldo Leopold is either. It would be great if F&S could publish an essay a month from 'A Sand County Almanac'.

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from Moishe wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

sjsmarais@gmail.com wrote 5 hours 45 min ago

Good article Hal. Unfortunately most English speaking hunters have no idea who Aldo Leopold is either. It would be great if F&S could publish an essay a month from 'A Sand County Almanac

Another phony elitist speaks?

From the Dust cover of my copy.

Aldo Leopold is considered by many to have been the most influential conservation thinker of the 20th Century. Leopold's legacy spans the disciplines of forestry, wildlife management, conservation biology, sustainable agriculture, restoration ecology, private land management, environmental history, literature, education, esthetics, and ethics. He is most widely known as the author of A Sand County Almanac, one of the most beloved and respected books about the environment ever published. The Leopold Collection houses the raw materials that document not only Leopold's rise to prominence but the history of conservation and the emergence of the field of ecology from the early 1900s until his death in 1948

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from Moishe wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

Seadog! Anchors Away / Garry Owen.

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from Bob81 wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

Moishe,
"NO OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD WILL ALLOW PEOPLE TO LIVE THERE without a basic knowledge of the language none will hire you to work unless you can speak read and write and learn the Language well enough."

That is not even close to right. Requirements for citizenship vary, but I could introduce you to dozens of friends and coworkers that lived in Japan, India, China etc, for extended periods and barely knew enough of the language to order lunch when they came back.

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from Moishe wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

Bob 81, There are exceptions I suppose, but I am talking about trying to immigrate that and get a work permit.

But generally speaking it's pretty well practiced in most countries.

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from shadbuster wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

Wow, a coherent and mature discussion about immigration, haven't seen one of these in a while! I do agree with the article that we have to address the fact that people who do not speak English live among us, we may not like it but its reality, we need to show them the respect of the outdoors we have, especially since many immigrants have very close ties to the land already.

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from hal herring wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

See what I mean beekeeper? If that feller had access to Spanish langauge fishing regs, and a Spanish language license and guide to conservation, there'd have been no knife or gun play, no high speed chase!

Just kidding. This has been fun and ...instructive.

jamesti, I figured out how to undertsand what my conservation students will be mumbling-

"me importa un huevo! Donde esta mi cheque?"

Thanks everybody, for your comments.

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from blackdawgz wrote 6 weeks 2 days ago

The most important issues here have been forgotten.

This country was stolen from some of my ancestors...the Native Americans.

Now, the invaders and real estate slickers ($20 worth of beads for Manhattan Island) want to impose their language and keep anybody else from coming in.

No white people should complain about immigrants or demographic trends.

After all, both English and the Romance languages are Latin-derived.

Englishmen were nothing more than Cave-dwellers before the Romans arrived in what was to become the United Kingdom.

The corruption in Mexico is no different from what is in Obama's Government.

What is going to happen is that Mexicans are re-acquiring the Southwest and the Rockies , which were unfairly taken from them in the First Place.

Not to mention Texas.

If somebody has something positive to contribute, it puts them ahead of 90% of the obesities already here who have not a clue of What the Constitution Means, and who will stampede the Other Way over Constitutional Issues..

Anybody who wants to exclude foreigners from this continent should start with themselves and buy themselves a boat ticket back to Merry Olde England.

Everybody seems to have forgotten that The Constitutional Laws apply to everyone and should be held sacred.

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from Dcast wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

"we may have a government voted in by a generation of citizens who have no idea who Aldo Leopold is, or why T Roosevelt felt it was so important to create the public lands and National Parks. Why we have clean water. There are big interests in our world who would love to take advantage of millions of people who have that kind of ignorance."~Shane

May I correct you! We have government that was elected in by the lack of journalism, lies, deception, and brainwashing! Also many may not know who Aldo Leopold and Teddy Roosevelt is, but I think they fully understand the concept and need for conservation. We also understand the need for our country to remain sovereign. We understand we need to limit the deterioration of our values, heritage, laws, and ability to stay the greatest land God gave man!

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from hal herring wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

Beekeeper,

I agree with you on all of it except for one point, and I'll pose my disagreement as a question to your question: "Do we do these people a favor by providing this linguistic crutch? I think not."

Do we do ourselves a favor by ensuring, through our insistence that everybody speak English, right now, that the fastest growing demographic in our nation knows nothing about our history of conservation, our fight for clean water and air, our love of bass and trout and whitetails, in short, how we fought for, rstored and kept, all the things that we here on this website spend most of our lives enjoying? How does that bode for the future?

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from countitandone wrote 6 weeks 1 day ago

The fact of the matter ~ the Hispanic speaking sector is the largest growing segment in America. Discuss all you want about who was here first. Your point is mute.

Like it or not, they're here and more are coming. The new numbers by 2050 reads 29% of our United States population; that up by 4% ten years ago, 2000.

The Bonnier Corporation will publish long after we are dead and buried. And they will publish in Spanish. $$$$$!

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