Well done. Once again, first hand knowledge reigns supreme. Is it too much to ask that anyone speaking about a subject and subjecting a good company to a damaged reputation actually know what they are talking about? The back end damage is that when something or someone is criticized fairly it bears no weight because of all the shoddy instances of "reporting" that exist naturally breeds skepticism. A perfect climate for liars and thieves. Truth and first hand knowledge is so very important. Embrace it and nourish it in whatever form it may take...

The hatchet job is even worse than all that. Remington has an active registration statement in place with the SEC- so they can't come on TV and talk about anything material to their stock price. CNBC, which allegedly is a business channel, knows this. I sent them the following letter.

The Remington 700 is one of the best bolt action rifles ever made. The staff at CNBC wouldn't know that because a guarantee none of you has ever shot one. Did the Trial lawyers who advertise on your network between Keith Olbermann promotions get to pick this story? For your next project scare mothers out of vaccinating their kids. This sort of yellow journalism from a business channel is truly pathetic. (bet the never read this on air).

any time an organization like CNBC does a story on firearms, you know it will be laughable. that's like rosie trying to instruct us all on how to field dress an elk. i was waiting for petzal's view on that story. thanks for that.

I'm sure the timing of this "news" piece with national elections coming up is only a coincidence.

If there is a bigger picture I know that part of the problem with S. Korea returning (or not) the M1 Garands is because the anti's feel they may be unsafe and malfunction.

Now the top gun maker in the US is being attacked by the same philosophy. They are unsafe and can malfunction causing injury.

Let us see where else this argument turns up...

I have owned Remington Model 700s in on chambering or another for 40+ years and have never had an accidental discharge on a factory trigger. I have experienced ADs on aftermarket triggers (e.g., M.H. Canjar) and triggers modified by well-intended (but poorly qualified) "gunsmiths". I have criticized the triggers because I thought Walker's design was redefined by lawyers and the pull was too heavy or creepy for my satisfaction, thus my recourse to gunsmiths who'd properly adjust (?) them, but I continue to appreciate the accuracy and reliability of the Model 700.
This model is one of the most popular on the market. If the media successfully attacks the Remington 700 and affects its market share, will the next "documentary" focus on the Winchester Model 70, then the Ruger Model 77, and so forth?
If they villainize one model after another, will that affect interest in shooting by the uninitiated public? In time, I suspect so.
I vaguely remember the concept of unbiased reporting, but Lowell Thomas and Walter Cronkite are gone. More's the pity.

Everyone in the shooting Community shouldn't be to up set over this anti gun article, CNBC has more people who work there, than people who actually watch it ! This is just another attempt by The Liberal Left Leaning media and The Obama lovers Inc. to discredit the shooters of America. Sorry if I ruffled anyone's feathers but I call them as I see them !

Actually almost any trigger mechanism can be adjusted to where it will "slam-fire".
I have a pre-war Model 70 that will slam-fire if I really flip the bolt hard. I should adjust it somewhat heavier, but that's how it came from an avid varmint shooter.

No doubt the Model 700 is a competent rifle...I have an early 7mm mag which came from the factory with a Hart stainless barrel (All the early 7 mags had Hart stainless barrels). Nevertheless, and in my opinion, the simple construction of the 700 just doesn't seem to have any soul.

FYI The pre-64 model 70 receivers were not forged; they were machined from big slabs of bar stock.

My first Mod 700 was purchased in 1963 (still have that one). Since then I have purchased 8 more. I have only had a problem with one that was bought used. That weapon would fire when the bolt was closed on a live round. My gunsmith said the trigger had been "Mickey Moused", so I had the trigger replaced. That fixed the trigger problem, but it still wouldn't shoot into less than 3" so it went to a new home. Other than that rifle I have never had a problem with a 700, the 1963 Mod. 700 has had thousand of rounds thru it.

We don't like to prejudge people; we like to give people the benefit of the doubt. But we have been burned enough times by liberal ignorance that we have to learn from it. So when someone pushes a camera in your face and asks you something about guns or shooting, don't angrily turn away or revel in their ignorance by giving them snide "Yup," and "nope" answers. Assume they know nothing, because they do know nothing. Speak to them as you would to a visitor from a different country (or planet). It's the only way... if there even is a way.

I had a Remington 700 for many years. Shot so straight I was afraid to take it to the range for fear I'd break the spell. I never say how accurate it was, as I'd be called a liar if I did.

I watched the TV show and I read the above article. I have also viewed the successful lawsuits that were prosecuted against Remington, where 12 honest citizens heard the evidence and ruled against Remington. I ahve read the 1979 memo from Remington about the defective firing or how the 700 could be "tricked" into firing. I own 2 Remington 700s. One bought in the late 60s or early 70s, and one bought in 2004. Never had an accidental firing, but I sure want the problem fixed.

DEP ~ Have you or anyone out there seen the photo or Mr. Cohn "holding" a Model 700? I have, and his lack of even having a clue how to hold a rifle parallels the idiocy of his "article."

The bolt is closed down, not open and his trigger finger is...on the trigger, not the guard and certainly not on the receiver. He doesn't even pretend to know what "indexing a weapon" means in the shooter's world. I'm almost sure another moron "told him, here, it's not loaded!

Shear idiocy.

To tommyd46:

Tort cases of that sort are highly technical and one wonders just how knowledgeable the honest citizens were about highly technical matters; and trigger mechanisms such as on the Remington 700 are highly technical.

The juries you refer to would have been ordinary citizens from no particular background and my belief is that even a jury of all rifle shooters would have great difficulty discerning reality concerning this trigger.

FWIW it's a sophisticated single stage override multi-lever type with a special connector.

Look who owns CNBC; nuff said. Dig around enough and you will probably find George Soros jerking a string somewhere in this. Just another wonderful example of today's journalists being bought as easily as a cheap suit. And some people can't understand why all the major news media can't be trusted? I have a degree in journalism and I am ashamed and saddened on a daily basis that the profession has degenerated into entertainment filled with slanted reporting and mostly ignorant falsehoods. When Jon Stewart is regarded as the journalist of the year, the fourth estate has indeed become an example of evolution in reverse.

To Charles Young: Honestly, I don't know what to think, and I don't believe I could form an intelligent opinion unless I saw every bit of footage that was shot for the Walker interview, particularly the stuff that didn't make it on the air. What I do know is that there is built-in conflict between designers who want to get things perfect, and production people who have to get things out the door at a profit, perfect or not. Very few industries are immune to this.

Thanks for the response, Mr. Petzal. It is obvious you are pro-Remington (in this particular case) so for you to give an unbiased opinion regarding Mr. Walker's segment shows a sincere review based on the information presented.

Yes, it would be interesting to see a complete collection of documentation the news station was able to obtain. In the end, the audience is only able to see what the editors want them to see.

Well.Drill sergeantDave, I've had a Rem.700ADL in .308 since 1985 or 86 and I wouldn't part with it. No matter what's hanging in the gun cabinet, that's the one I reach for when I want to get serious.Rem 700 and .308Win are ma great combination for Deer here in E.Ky. hill country. Let them come and ask me my opinion ....

Dave - I bought a new Mdl 700 in .270 WSM two years ago. Glad to see your views on this whole situation - but have there been any changes or improvements to the trigger assemblies lately...or for that matter - in the last 10-20 years that were safety oriented? I love the gun - but the CNBC report really drove home the point ( and you did too) of watch where you point ANY gun. CFG

Why does it seem that most of the people against the 700 seem to have just joined the website.

As a Model 700 BDL owner in .270, I had one incident similar to the trigger problem described. I was loading up for a deer hunt with a hunting buddy when the rifle fired. Since we have hunted together for several years, we instinctively follow safety procedures and were pointing at roughly 120 degrees from each other when the rifle fired.

I had a trigger job from a professional gunsmith, but I have shelved the rifle until I can replace the unit with a 3rd party trigger (Is there a recommended fix???)

It is a wonderful rifle. It has shot 1 1/2" groups at 400 yards, and can easily put a golf ball sized 5 shot groups together at 100 yards with me shooting, and I consider myself just a very average shooter.

Hmmm pbsshooter asks why some of us just joined the website, Perhaps this is something worth talking about, If I didn't have my Model 700 misfire I wouldn't bother to talk about it, but it did and if it saves someones life knowing there is a problem than it was worth the effort. To have someone suggest that I'm some kind of Anti gun plant raises the hairs on the back of my neck.

Well Petzal, you wrote a strong and provacative piece. I've long read and loved your columns and still do. But it seems to me that this is a moment of epiphany as James Joyce may have put it. I happen to believe that all of these guys writing in with reports of misfires are honest fans of yours. They are certainly members of this online publication, and have no reason to be here except to share their experience. That experience is loudly demonstrating that there was something rotten with the triggers at Remington -- at least for a time. The big execs at Remington were probably warned by their lawyers not to make public admissions -- lest they invite more lawsuits. So here's the question: Will Petzal demonstrate that he is a listener and a straight up guy? We're waiting...

from KenMcD

"5. The woman in the story that killed her son was not at fault. The rifle was not pointed at where she thought her son was. She thought he was behind her. It wasn't as if she had the rifle pointed at his chest and took the gun off safe."

Yes it was tragic that the woman aqccidenally killed her son.
Your second and third sentences also add something to the story-Her son was NOT where she THOUGHT he was. She did not look prior to unloading the rifle for one,and for two,always point the muzzle in a safe direction,never at anything you do not intend to shoot.

Why point the muzzle at a horse trailer? Not something I would choose as a direction to point the muzzle when unloading a rifle-at the ground-a couple feet in front of you is the generally agreed upon safest place to point the muzzle when unloading.

Almost everyone I hunt with currently owns a Remington 700,some guns are old,some are new,they are in an assortment of calibers,and every hunt I have ever been on (that involved rifles) has at least one,usually multiple 700's in use. These hunts have been mainly in WVa. ,PA.,TN,NC,SC,Montana,CO,and twice to AK, I have never seen a 700 accidentally discharge,and I have been hunting for about 43 years.

Being new to hunting I bought a 700 in 30-06 brand new last year. I've used the gun often at the range, unfortunately never had a shot in the field but it has been loaded and safety off, no incidental discharge. I tend to agree that a lot of the show (which I didn't see) was probably trumped up propaganda and yes these accidents could have been avoided by safer handling. As many have posted safe handling and only that has prevented more of these incidents.

Like I said, I love the gun and don;t won;t to worry about it - how can I tell if it has the Walker trigger or the other one mentioned?

countitandone

Previously you posted, quote:

"DEP ~ Don't let my respect for you as a gun writer sour when you self-elect yourself to telling me how to vote this November, if sir, those are your intentions. Sir, I have spent more time than most trying like hello to get this country back on track, presumably sir, more than you with your political leanings. My energies to right this ship are endless. Please surprise me with a tongue in cheek evaluation of your pretense of an "election guide." We all need to vent, to show our fence sitting or leaning politico. Keep the sanctity of this blog per it's intentions. We learn from you on the rite of passage, gun use, gun care and gun history. Do not sir, muddle your calling. Oh, and we fragged the last shavetail we had before he killed more of us. Dead as disco. It ain't nothin'. 1966."

We are still waiting for your response to my post:

"You are either a murderer, co-conspirator to murder, traitor, coward, or liar. Or just talking $h1t to hear your head roar? Please enlighten us as to which one you really are there hero. Fragging an officer indeed..."

This one isn't going away anytime soon...

I own two Remington 700's and have never had a safety problem. I'll have to admit that the 22-250 had about a six pound trigger when I bought it. A friend, who owns several, adjusted to factory installed trigger pull screws to set the trigger around three pounds. Still works as advertised.

I own two Remington 700's and have never had a safety problem. I'll have to admit that the 22-250 had about a six pound trigger when I bought it. A friend, who owns several, adjusted to factory installed trigger pull screws to set the trigger around three pounds. Still works as advertised.

I dont own a 700 but i own an 1100 shotgun and my dad has a 742 that my grandfather has had for who knows how long. Even after hearing all this i would still buy a 700 over anything else on the market.

1. Five millions 700 have been sold in the last sixty years. The video says there have been twenty four deaths due to the rifle. 24 / 60 = 0.4. I'm willing to bet more people have died having sex than have died because of this flaw.

2. NBC has rigged their stories before. Anyone remember the Chevy truck story from years back? They rigged that truck to explode on impact. Who's to say they didn't rig the trigger of the guy at the range.

3. Don't get me wrong. One tragedy is too many, but they could have been avoided if people would have taken the proper precautions.

Anyhow, here's Remington's responses to the story:
http://www.remington700.tv/#/home

I posted this in the Answers section, but it is relevant so I will repeat it here. I had an '80s 700 that would fire when the safety was moved to the "off" position if the trigger were pulled while the safety was in the "on" position. I discovered this one day at the range when I thought I had taken the safety off and it was still on. I released the safety, and the rifle discharged with my finger outside the trigger guard. Imagine my surprise! Of course, the rifle was still on the sandbags and pointed safely downrange. This fault was consistent and repeatable, and the rifle had not been damaged or altered from factory condition in any way. The trigger is now in a drawer in my garage, and an Arnold Jewell trigger is on that rifle.

I want to add, that, non-gun owners, should be included, to my comment.

I've owned 2 model 700's from the late sixties. Both had a problem if you pulled the trigger when the safety was on, then just flicked the safety off without touching the trigger, the rifle would fire. Both were bought new and never had the triggers worked on. I returned both to Remington and they replaced the triggers on each. I really feel there was something wrong with this original Remington trigger design. I can't speak to what others have experienced, I only know what I experienced. Be safe!

Never touched the adjustment screws. They are factory sealed with something like Loctite and it is still intact. Trigger is clean and dry, as it was when removed. It is a design problem. And that's no BS.

Disclaimer: This opinion does not constitute legal advice. Please consult an attorney licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Wear sunscreen, protective eyewear, and hearing protection. Buckle your seatbelt. Call your mother. -- The Armchair Outfitter

AND YOU THOUGHT I FORGOT!!! LOL!!!

And a +1 for"ya!

When I first got my 700, the trigger pull was about 7 lbs. So heavy that when trying to squeeze an offhand shot at a doe, I had to take a second breath before the trigger finally broke (and I missed a short easy shot). I got my gun tech buddy to reset the trigger to about 3-1/2 lbs. and have used the .270 as my primary deer gun since. A few years ago, I thumbed the safety off to shoot another deer and the gun fired before I could get it to my shoulder. I didn’t really understand what caused the premature shot and chalked it up to a gloved finger hitting the trigger at the wrong time. Except I was absolutely certain that my finger was not within the trigger guard. That’s not the way I was taught to shoot (finger off the trigger until you are aiming at the target and ready to shoot). Rifle, shotgun or handgun, still target or moving, that’s what I always shoot. And I made damn sure that’s what I did the next time shot the 700 and haven’t had a recurrence.

My brother-in-law also got a 700 in .270 shortly after I got mine and asked me to get his trigger pull reduced as well, but he wanted his set at about 3 lbs. Same gun tech, same model rifle, same trigger type (both Walker triggers based on date of purchase). After he got his rifle back, b-i-l asked me to dry fire it. Worked fine the first time (with a dry fire cap), but the next 2 times I pulled the trigger (after reworking the bolt) nothing happened. He took his 700 to another gunsmith and was told that the trigger had been improperly adjusted, was unsafe and not repairable, and had a new Timney put in to replace the old trigger. No problems since.

I talked to b-i-l this evening and he had seen the CNBC report. I told him what DEP said, and b-i-l says “you need to see the TV show”. I checked the story out on the CNBC website and there seems to be an awful lot of evidence that something is amiss.

I hate the drive-by media as much as the next “bitter, right-wing, God fearing, gun-clinging” patriot but where there is so much smoke, there’s a strong possibility there just might be fire somewhere. The CNBC website includes copies of various documents including Walker’s internal Remington memo raising the issue of trigger safety due to his design and suggesting an easy, cost effective fix; a 1968 Consumer’s Report magazine article discussing 700’s firing when the safety was released for “more than 100 firings”, and other Remington memos apparently indicating their awareness of the issue. A write-up of the CNBC piece can be found at:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/39759366

DEP, you are absolutely correct when you say that the tragic accidents mentioned would not have happened if the muzzles had been pointed in a safe direction. The first rule of gun safety I learned was to always treat a gun as if it were loaded, which primarily meant to always point the muzzle in a safe direction. As we all know, that is the First Commandment of Firearm Safety. And I make it a habit to be safe, to REALLY be safe. But in the nearly 50 years that I have been shooting real guns (Dad didn’t even like me to point my old cowboy cap gun at anyone), even I have made the mistake of letting my gun muzzle stray in the direction of another person a few times. I always corrected the error, apologized profusely, felt ashamed of myself, and strived not to do it again. But s##t happens. And some gunsmiths are better than others (at the time I tried b-i-l’s adjusted trigger, we both commented that it felt like less than a 3-lb pull).

(BTW, according to the CNBC report, the 10 Firearm Safety Commandments were originated by Remington, claiming that they were intended to prevent more accidents involving their allegedly inadequate triggers.)

I don’t know how much of all this is true. All I know is what I know from personal experience and what I get from many various news sources (right, left, gun owner’s or media, because rarely does anyone tell the whole story these days). I also know that if we as gun owning sportsmen and women are only going to have knee-jerk reactions when somebody points out a potential serious problem with our tools or our methods, then we are going to gradually lose the majority of non-gun owners/hunters who agree with us on most issues, like the 2nd Amendment (no matter how much we dislike the messenger). If there isn’t a problem, then we should learn all the facts and refute the report with extreme prejudice. And if it appears that the CNBC piece is really an attempt to screw up Cerebrus’ Freedom Group IPO, then I am going to write many long letters to CNBC, the FCC, and whoever else I can come up with. But if there is a problem with the Walker triggers, then Remington needs to step up, provide a remedy (even if it’s just a warning), and maybe take a few lumps but retain their reputation as a provider of quality firearms and ammunition.

For those who have not seen it yet, the CNBC report will be repeated several times in the next week or so, including 10 pm ET Sunday night. I know I will be watching with a critical eye because, as DEP pointed out, TV producers almost never include sufficient rebuttal to foil their point. But I’m also going to be looking for burning embers.

I also know that I’m going to take my A-Bolt to the deer stand until I can get a new trigger for the 700 (what better excuse to upgrade than safety?).

If anyone has a model 700 they are very afraid of, I would be happy to take it off your hands. I would do this gratis. Also I would pay for shipping.

I am just that type of a guy. :D

But Petzal is of course correct a gun is very dangerous thing that should always be pointed somewhere safe.

What happened to that boy was of course a terribly tragic thing.

I have owned a Remington 700 in cal. 270 for 40+ years and I have never had it go off accidentally. It is a fine weapon and I would reccommend it to anyone who wants a good weapon. These people that report it as an unsafe weapon must have mush for brains or they do not know anything about firearms.

Dear Dzone3,
I fully agree with the last line of your post. F&S should do a complete investigation od this problem. But they won't, and it all boils down to money.
Remington pays Bonnier Corp. hundreds ofthousands of dollars every year in advertising. There is no way that Bonnier, (owner of F&S), will bite the hand that feeds the, and either will DEP.
Pettzal SHOULD be writing that this is something worth looking into, and that all 700 owners should take note. Lets put the Remington #, and website in there too. Now that's responsible journalism. After all isn't gun safety everyones goal.
But instead he only bashes the truth. There is a problem with 700s and Remington still refuses to fix them.
Remington should follow Toyota's lead from a few years ago when they offered 1.5 times the value of your vehicle if you had a rotted frame.
Not only am I disappointed in Remington, ( I still own four shotguns),I've also lost a great deal of respect for DEP too.

Perhaps we have some misunderstandings going on here.

1) These incidents are NOT "misfires". They would be unintentional firings - possibly caused by a trigger malfunction.

2) Keeping snow and water from getting into the trigger mechanism to freeze there is the responsibility of the person using the rifle...one of the reasons Jack O'Connor was so strongly in favor of the simple-sturdy-open trigger mechanism of the Model 70.

3) Rifle manufacturers and gun writers like Dave and Phil have been telling us for decades not to "test" our gun safeties by pulling on the trigger while on safe. It is an excellent way of getting an accidental firing. A buddy had this problem when he tested the safety on his 03-A3 and then put it off. It fired. That was an aftermarket Timney trigger, which BTW is an excellent trigger.

4) If you are a firearm owner and believe ANYTHING CNBC has to say, the next step is to get your vital information from Michael Moore.

I own 3 Remington 700 rifles. I bought the first in 1968, a 270 ADL with cheap impressed checkering, but it was very accurate. Hunted with it several years until I acquired a Weatherby Mk 5. In 1977 a friend was going hunting on the company lease and I loaned him the 700 which had been unused for several years. We went by the range to check the zero and let him shoot it some. After the hunt he came back and said upon loading the rifle in the early morning darkness, when he closed the bolt the rifle fired. Not once but several times. Scared the bejabbers out of him and hunting partner. I am so glad that he kept the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. The trigger had never been messed with. I took it to a gunsmith who adjusted it back to something safer but I was not happy until I bought an after-market trigger and had it installed. I almost hate to relate this because I am a fan of Remington rifles.

I'd say this matter has gotten a brisk response. I see a number of postings by individuals whose names I've not seen on this forum before. Of those who are particularly critical of Remington (and especially those who are critical of Dave Petzal's comments), quite a few are new to this forum and, I suspect, have relatively few years in the shooting sports or they'd have a better grasp of the Model 700's track record and Dave's pattern of candor in writing.
Are there rifles out there that can accidentally discharge? Yes, that possibility exists with every firearm on the shelf. As shooters, we accept that possibility and we handle our firearms carefully. The accident that took young Gus Barber's life is tragic by any measure. The rifle in question should be examined to determine if it was flawed in any way. As a firearm model, millions of Remington Model 700 (721, 722, 725) rifles have been sold; they've been used and abused for decades. Are all of them scrupulously maintained in factory-fresh condition? Probably not. Are accidents possible? Very certainly. I have not experienced an accident traceable to a flawed Remington trigger design in more that 40 (closer to fifty) years of shooting these models, which accounts for many thousands of rounds. I have no doubt it's possible.
I'm sure this television reporter, Scott Cohn, is eager to spare the public any hazard and is well-intended, but I doubt he has the experience as a shooter to consider the millions of Rem 700s and decades of production to grasp the larger picture. These rifles are mass-produced mechanical devices. You purchase a rifle and it does or doesn't merit your confidence in careful use over time. If you use it and you're not satisfied with its features, you adjust or fix them...or purchase no more of them. These rifles are affordably priced because they are mass-produced. Pay three times this price for a rifle that has received the tender attention of a custom gunsmith, and you have considerably greater (though hopefully not tragic) reasons for dissatisfaction.
I am a parent, and I do not trivialize the loss of a fine lad to an accidental discharge. Nor do I criticize David Petzal's integrity for his response to the tone or accuracy of the report. In my personal experience over many years and many Remington Model 700 rifles, the only ones that have had trigger problems are those that were adjusted or modified by those not properly qualified to do so. Since my experience with my rifles and those owned by colleagues is but a random sampling of 240-300 rifles over time, and since these are less than 1% of those produced, it may well be that I have been spared exposure to a "lemon", but I have been spared that, as have so many experienced shooters, and many on this forum have similar experience.
There are remarkably few shooters who've fired as many rounds in practice and qualification as military & police snipers and the assessment of the Remington 700 since it appeared in this role in the '60s has met with approval. I would not invite a problem by chambering a live round and resting the butt of a rifle on a bouncing pickup truck or personnel carrier. If you trust a mechanical safety and overlook a safety-oriented attitude, you may encounter disappointment.
I'm pleased to see the pro and con responses to this matter, and to read the experiences of shooters who agree or disagree, but I'm disappointed at the criticism of Mr. Petzal's motives or credibility. Unlike the television reporter, Mr. Petzal (also a journalist) has the experience and credentials to discuss this issue intelligently, and I would have been much happier (and better informed) if Dave had conducted this television program, rather than a reporter who handles a rifle awkwardly.

unbelievable how many of you guys with 700s stick your head in the sand because you happened to have one of the guns that has never misfired- there obviously is some sort of problem with the gun and you guys are OK with that??!

as for Petzal, what a lame attempt to discredit the entire point of the show- you sound like just another shill for the industry rather than being a lookout for your readers safety

I should know, I used to be an industry shill for ATVs when it was under fire for being unsafe- in many ways we sounded just as lame....

This post is right on. I do not say this because I agree with the author, even though I do. I make the comment because of the fact had the rifle been pointed in the correct direction the young Gus Barber never would have suffered the consequences. My wife and I have been married to each other for 35 years. I hunt, she does not. She respects my hunting need, since I have hunted for 50 years. Whether the Barber rifle had a malfunction or not, had the rifle been handled properly the young boy would not have been shot. I know the mother must feel awful, and not one of us knows what she goes through daily. It is why all of us need to share in proper gun/rifle handling. Let's share safety, for the results can only be positive.

Reading all of the comments on this blog bring something to mind; if we each donated $1 to spreading gun safety rather than our local candidate we would be much better off. People of all ages need to be reminded to point a loaded weapon in the proper direction, down in the ground. Think about this for one minute. How many cars are on the road? How many people die from car crashes? Do we expect everyone to stop using cars? The answer is no. We educate drivers on responsible operation. Why are we not advocating the same here?

The early Model 700 owner's manual actually included instructions which explained how to adjust the trigger for pull weight, sear engagement and over travel. When I bought my first 700 in 1980, the manual that came with it did not include the instructions but a friend provided me with a photocopy of his 700 manual which did explain how to make the adjustments.

I have owned several different model 700's over the years and did take the time to painstakingly adjust the triggers when I thought they had too much pull weight or excessive creep before release or excessive over-travel.

What I discovered was that some triggers could be adjusted safely down to a 32 ounce pull weight but that others could not be adjusted below 40 ounces without risking firing pin release when the bolt was violently and forcefully slammed home (made in an effort to jar the sear engagement loose)

What was made clear to me was that there were manufacturing tolerances which varied from gun to gun and that the minimum safe pull weight therefore varied from rifle to rifle.

I am certain that there are 700 model triggers manufactured that are not safe to be adjusted below 48 ounces of pull weight.

I have never experienced an unintended discharge of my 700's despite having fired thousands of rounds and having hunted under extreme conditions.

That doesn't mean it can't happen which is why pointing the gun in a safe direction (muzzle control) is the first rule of gun safety.

It is mind-boggling why anyone on this blog would be drinking CNBC's Koolaid!

The Remington 700, in my opinion is dollar for dollar the best bolt action rifle money can buy. As indicated by others, firearms need to be handled safely.

Dear tailbak40,
Great post. Right to the heart of the matter. Of course you've already gotten a negative comment, but that's what narrow minds are for.
The issue isn't gun safety, we all practive that. the issue is, is this a safe gun?

dear jeffsutherland,
good luck with that...

My BAD!

Need to clarify my previous statement!

viperkitty

You really crack me up!

I'm not laughing with you, I'm laughing at you!

Back to business here!

During my active years shooting and running ranges for recreational shooting, the Remington 700 is my #1 pick for the biggest bang for the dollar and most reliable!

I have to join the fans of Remington group. I have two shotguns and a 700BDL 270 purchased in the 1960's. I can safely say I have never had a problem with any of them, and have put hundreds of shots ( or more) through each. However, I also reload for the 270. Once I loaded the magazine and chambered a round preparing for a hunt. Now I do not slam the bolt but rather ease it shut trying to keep the metallic sounds to a minimum. At the end of the day, after no shooting opportunities, I emptied the magazine and just happened to loook at the base of the shells. One had a small, round, nearly complete circle on the primer-obviously a high primer. I checked all the others and then my spare ammunition. No others with similar patterns. I wonder if, had I slammed the bolt shut, I may have had an ND and assumed it was from the firing pin. It was a lesson well learned. Check all reloads carefully and if there is any question, toss the round.

Does anyone take responsibility for themselves anymore? It is the responsibility of every owner of every device made be it a truck or a rifle to care for the device and maintain it. In the case of a truck it gets tuneups, new tires, ball joints replaced, etc. In the case of a firearm, it too is subject to the same requirements. great if your whipe out the barrel after every shot. but how many gun owners take their gun to a good gunsmith for a full break down to the last spring and clean lube and adjust... ever? Why treat your gun differently than you would your familys transportation? I've taken apart many spotless firearms only to find everything hidden under the stock to be rust pitted and all the lube to be like road tar. People people think for yourselves.

Has the trigger been adjusted or reset from factory settings? Any one with the right screw driver can tinker with the Remington old model trigger. A slam fire or slight bump fire is real easy to accomplish if you don't know what you are doing. The best way to settle the claim is to send the rifle to a metallurgical lab and let them analyze the trigger screw heads and see if the factory seal has been broken. Believe me, Remington seals the screw head with a proprietary seal and thread lock so they will know if someone other than an authorized Remington repair shop has reset the trigger. And a close look under the microscope will reveal any reverse pressure marks on the trigger screw heads. I have owned over 20 Remington 721 and model 700's. I learned the hard way not to mess with the trigger setting if you don't know what to turn and what not to turn. The trigger is a damn good design and it is very safe if it is reset by someone that understands how to correctly adjust it for a lighter pull. Anyone that believes anything MSNBC, NBC, CNN, CBS or ABC says is likely to believe we didn't have an economic melt down and we should be all watching the View to get nothing but the holy truth about the state of our country.

WA Mtnhunter yes we are waiting for an answer. It will haunt him for quiet some time.

Davidwillet, If you as you say, took your rifle off the shelf and it hadn't been fired or used for 15 years and fired it without cleaning out the barrel, wiping off the bolt and cycle the bolt a couple of times including dry firing to see if it is mechanically fit for duty is breaking one of the very basic firearm safety rules. I would also bet a lot of hunters lubricate their firearm including the trigger with WD40. WD40 should never be used on any firearm for any purpose. It turns to a hard sticky gummy coating over time and will cause all sort of mechanical problems with the safety and trigger mechanism. I use lighter fluid to clean my triggers and the safety and never lubricate either one with any type of lubricant.

Sorry for the double post.

How about it countitanddone, you need to answer Wa Mtnhunter. We are waiting on your answer.

Why bother to share on our experiances as Model 700 owners, I have seen the comments by so called experts as why our rifles discharged without pulling the trigger except you weren't there when it happened. If you are happy with your 700 and feel 100% safe then God bless you. I'm not,to literally browbeat shooters for telling the truth makes you no better than the idiots at CNBC. The far left vs the far right, maybe on this issue the truth is somewhere in between!!!

another mistake on my last post.
On the 8th line down. The new sentence should read. "Most of which were not caused by mishandling of firearms". The word "not" was left out.
I should proofread before posting.

We have owned Remington guns for years, but we have a Remington 700 that I took elk hunting last year. I was sitting in a blind waiting for an elk to come by, and when it appeared, I had the gun laying across my lap and took it off safety before raising it into the shooting position. It went off, missing my foot by an inch or so. Needless to say, I was very upset with this happening. We came home, and my husband thought it was just me not being careful. The next day, he was with me and I got the opportunity to shoot another one, and the exact same thing happened, only I was standing that time. Both times I had someone else with me. We have checked the gun over and over and could not get it to repeat when we tried. I feel like this is an extremely dangerous gun because of what happened. I refuse to use it due to those incidents. When we saw the article on tv the other day, we finally realized what waa happening. And now my husband knows for a fact that I was being careful. I even had my fingers out and only my thumb on the safety when the gun fired. I strongly feel that Remington should remedy this problem so that no one is accidentally shot and possibly killed due to the design. I also think that Remington should offer to take these guns and fix the problem for the ones that have already purchased them. And for you non-believers that are out there, God help you when yours does act up. It will make a believer out of you real quick. And hopefully you won't shoot someone in the process.

To Tailbak40, davidwillette, tommyd46 and lots more;
After reading these responses my blood pressure is out the roof.
If there's something wrong with anything you own,for God's sake, fix it.
Gimmy, gimmy, I can no longer think for myself, I can no longer do for myself.
God help us.
What are you going to do if the republicans does not regain control and by some stretch of the imagination regain some degree of sanity.

All firearms do, occasionally, have problems. I had an AR7 years ago, when I was a kid, that started to fire once when I pulled the trigger and a second time when I released the trigger. Once I understood that there was a problem, I had my father send it off to be repaired. I got it back and it has worked fine ever since. I may have had a slam fire once in a bolt action (not a Remington), but I'm not certain.

"Who's Side Are You ON?!" is a distraction from what's important here. If you want to badmouth the "other" side or make insinuations of partiality, your local high school team would appreciate your support most Friday nights.
I am pleased to own a 700 chambered in 30-06. Those are my credentials, and the reason for my interest in this subject.
The NBC show alleged that the trigger connector could become misaligned by other causes than tampering, abuse or neglect. This seems mechanically plausible to me.
The current 700 owner's manual does not give an exploded view of the trigger assembly, but I noticed older 700 (ca 1950-60s) and 600 manuals do. The part I am describing is a staple-shaped component fitted to the front face of the trigger (part #45 in the 600 manual). It is obviously a separate, and apparently at one time, replaceable component.
It seems to me that a potential means of misaligning it, aside from tampering with the overtravel screw, would be to push the trigger forward while it's engaged with the sear. This could damage, bend, or displace the trigger connector out of proper alignment with the sear. It further seems that this could occur in production, storage, use, or cleaning, without the party responsible being aware.
To me, this is the most important allegation to consider, demonstrate, or debunk, and so far, I have seen nothing about it, neither from Mr. Petzal, nor from the other (more knowledgeable than me) persons who have contributed to this forum.
Surely, someone has the gunsmithing knowledge to lay this to rest.

BTW Thank you, Mr. Petzal, for providing the Jeff Cooper alternative to the "1st Commandment." The prepositional phrase between the verb and its object forces one to read it more than once, which subtly reinforces the message.
The "1st Commandment" itself seems straightforward until you realize that only an omniscient being could actually determine a "safe direction." Maybe "least unsafe direction" would be more honest.
I carry my rifle muzzle up, because I do not want to plunge it into the ground if I trip, but I think we can agree, the sky is not a "safe direction" for a centerfire, either.
The ground is probably the least unsafe direction, MOST of the time, but there are rocks and abandoned machinery; power, water, sewer, and gas lines; even unexploded ordnance. Some of these unseen hazards may be rare where most of us shoot, but they create danger of ricochet and/or fragmentation where they occur.
Yes, infantile logic tells us that if a muzzle was pointed in a "safe direction" no harm could occur. But the reality to beings of limited perception, like us, is that there IS NO SAFE DIRECTION, and thus, accidents will happen, even to the most vigilant and circumspect.

my first remington was in the early '60's. had several 700's. never had a problem. plenty accurate with factory trigger. did not mess with the trigger and kept it clean. period.

I have a remington 700. adl in 7mm-08. I havent shot more than 20 rounds through it. mainly because a box of 7mm-08 is $26 a box. But i love my 700

I have owned several M700s over the years. A couple were from the custom shop.
Some were Classics. A while back I sold all of them except for a 223 target rifle. That rifle is only a couple of years old and it HAS slam fired. I thought it was a problem with one of my reloads but now I wonder. The reason I sold the rest of the guns is because of them failing to fire THREE times when I had the crosshairs on nice bucks. The last time the rifle was from Remingtons Custom Shop. That did it. The other two were 350 Rem mag. Classics. I also had a common problem with 700s failing to eject the brass after firing. I had a new 350BDL that the stock cracked on after only a few factory rounds being fired thru it. No surprise there since they redesigned the stock and made it cheaper and weaker. A gun salesman in Montana told me they had received a new M700 with no rifling in the barrel. Hows that for lack of quality control? I now own Rugers, Winchesters and Kimbers. All with "claw extractors" No more Remington M700s for me.

A firearm, A cartridge, and a human; which of these are considered the most unreliable?

David Willette:

Did I miss your answer about where you work? The line about "in the business" covers a lot of ground. I'm in the political business because I vote. I think there is a way to keep it civilized, and even the tone of your reply degenerated into a challenge at the end. If that's "bashing" then too bad.

I don't think you should be surprized that a 15 year storage of an older 700 would not be 100% operational under the circumstances you describe. The gun is not in proper working order - what lube do you think has a shelf life of 15 years? If you parked a car or boat for that long your expectations would not be so high, and certainly I'd advise against using a parachute last packed in 1995.

I think you misrepresent DEP's attack on CNBC's article - it's an attack with specific points named, including "track-record". Did you not notice the specific points about questioning the owners of guns that were used as examples? "Tapping the bolt"? It occurred to me and I'm not "in the business". It was a poor job of presenting at best. Reminds me of Ken Jenny, our former Sheriff, on CNN presenting examples of "Assualt Weapons" covered by the "ban". His examples were EXACTLY opposite the truth, yet many would not have known that. Wayne LaPierre called CNN on that one when was on the Larry King show. A different "news" company, but the same problem. It goes to credibility.

kudukid - the jurors are just as sophisticated as the one who sentence people to death. Is that sophisticated enough?

tommyd46

Actually no; the issues are entirely different.

So far all I've seen is anecdotal evidence from the bloggers here. To my way of thinking it is no more useful than the anecdotal evidence used for hawking stuff on the TV. I'm not accusing anyone here of being untruthful either.

There are way too many variables to be looked into. For instance, there has been no mention here of the possible effect of a high primer in handloads - something that is almost unheard of in factory ammo since factory ammo is loaded with primers 5 thousandths below the face of the head. A high primer means the bolt face will impact the primer when the breech block (bolt face) is moved into battery. I have seen a great many handloads with primers 5 to 15 thousandths high. Many many handloaders are unaware of this hazard. Slam a bolt home in this condition and you're likely to have a discharge BEFORE the breech is locked - then the bolt itself becomes a missle.

There is another possibility of a broken firing pin lodged in the front of the bolt. That will result in an unintended firing every time.

I maintain that ballistics and firearms mechanisms are far beyond what the average jurist can comprehend. The result is that they are often duped by unscrupulous lawyers and their "paid "experts".

Dave, I congratulate you on your candor. I am not willing to put my name out there. I have been harrassed by various animal rights groups when I was writing Outdoor Articles for over 25 years as a Freelance Writer and don't need any more harrasment now that I am retired .Your point on advertizing and where the money comes from is so true. I used to deal with the folks at Remington prior to the latest aquisition. I saw them every year at the Shot Show. I'm not trying to put them out of buisness but two years ago the problem happened to me in the field, so by communicating it to others that this problem does exist makes me feel that my conscience is clear. I am sorry that Remington/Cerebus chose to do nothing because that played into the Anti-Gunners hands. As to what people here choose to do it's up to them, use your 700 and maybe have a problem, take it to a competent gunsmith and have it checked or the trigger mechanism replaced or do nothing. Just be aware that it can happen to you.

sportsman54,
Thanks for having my back.
I got rid of my 700 and 721. Unbelievably both problems arose five minutes apart.
I was putting back my 700 after a hunting trip in Wyoming. I checked the chamber one last time before I put if in the rack. When I closed the bolt the gun dry-fired.
It worked fine for the whole trip.
That same night I just happened to be in another room, where more guns are stored and I took out my 721. I don't know why, I just did. I retired this gun after a moose hunt in Newfoundland. It was my uncles. I inhereted it. It was professionally cleaned before I put it away. I opened the bolt to check the chamber, closed the bolt and the gun dry-fired. I sent them away to be repaired amd then I traded them.
Anyway, thanks for commenting, and I'll pray for all those guys with 700s.

Goodbye to you all...

Mojohand, if could give you more than a +1 I would. Your comment hits the very heart of the matter that I think most of the people on here are ignoring. There have been problems with with the design of the Remington Model 700 that has caused it to fire when people haven't pulled the trigger. REMINGTON ITSELF HAS ADMITTED IT. And there are real documents to prove it. This does not mean that your gun will not work. Odds are it will preform perfectly. But some won't and some people may get hurt.
I'd just like to point something else out, if this story had been broken by someone other than CNBC (lets say Field and Stream for example), there wouldn't have been this big of an outcry over it. Facts are still facts, no matter who reports it.

I believe that the truth be told most of those missfires from rem 700 were not the guns fault but the triggers were adjusted or they were handled carelessly and remington was a cheap cop out for the people who were involved,you know blame it on someone else.

liars the 700 is a classic rifle. it was my first gun ever and ive never had an accidental fire with it. in fact ive never been dissapointed with the 700 or any Remingtons

every member of my family that hunts shoot's a 700, since my grandfather taught men in the military how to shoot them. as far back as i can remember remington has offered a trigger upgrade kit. i'm sorry for anyone who was either injured or lost a family member to what i think is one of the greatest gun design's ever. but as long as their on the market every child of mine will be carrying one in the field.

PS. I DOUBT REMINGTON EVER FIGUERD IT WOULD BE OK FOR ANYONE TO GET INJURED IN THE CIVILIAN WORLD BY THIS GUN, IF YOU DONT LIKE IT "BUY A DIFFERENT GUN"

And BTW, I do not nor desire to own a 700, I like Savage better than Remington. Sorry if you don't agree, but that's my opinion.

WOW! Lots of comments on this one.

As an owner of a Remington BDL 700 30-06 purchased new by me in 1980, this subject definitely has my attention. I agree with and concede the importance of all of the gun safety comments - but in my opinion the main concern is the reliable mechanical operation of this firearm.

I had a trigger issue during last years deer season. My 700 did not dry fire, it actually did not fire at all when I moved the safety to "fire" and pulled the trigger. I moved the safety on and off again and had to re-rack a new shell in order to get it to fire. It was an event that has been on my mind since and this news story gives me pause.

There are plenty of other rifles that do not have a documented issue with the firing mechanism, that in and of itself would point to the fact that there is a better mousetrap or in this case trigger mechanism. The right thing for Remington to do is to identify and admit to the potential shortcomings of the existing design and notify owners of a program to retrofit those firearms with a better mechanism. After all - firearms are not like vehicles. They are around for a much longer time and get passed down from generation to generation.

I have two pre-WWII Browning A5s that were given to me by my Dad and that I plan to pass along to my sons some day. I do not feel comfortable doing the same with my Remington BDL - unless a corrective measure is made to this firearm.

I will be watching this story closely to see what Remington does. I do not feel I should have to foot the bill for an improved trigger mechanism and I certainly do not feel comfortable using it as is.

For anyone who wants to see some of Remington's response to the hatchet job by CNBC, you can check out the website they set up:

http://remington700.tv

To sportsman54;
Thanks.
You said it better than I ever could.

“Our job is to give people not what they want, but what we decide they ought to have.”
-Richard Salant, former President of CBS News

Sound familiar!

it would have to be a lot more than 1% to convince me its a remmington production problem, Whats the % of gun owners that adjust their triggers themselves

I apologize here is the link: remington700.tv

I am a sportsman like most of you out there.I am also a NRA member and a hard believer of our second amendment rights, but I saw the report and I am concerned that one unsafe rifle out there is too many. Remington should step up and look into these issues and fixed it. No excuses. I agree that safe handling of fire arms is the owner responsibility but if these issues with Remington are not address soon, the damage will be extensive to the Company.

I love your opinion on this subject Mr.Petzel. I personally have a 700 that fire when Lock the bolt down and take it off safety it fires every time I was just wondering what I can do to fix it thats all..

To everyone who claims that their rifle has fired un-intentionally. WHY HAVEN'T YOU SENT THEM BACK? If a gun misfires and I can reproduce the event someone is going to hear about it. If everyone who had a problem sent them back there would be a real record and not just complaint letters.
To those who claim to have experienced the malfunction and sold their 700 becuase of it, WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH YOU? WHY ARE YOU SELLING A KNOWN DEFECTIVE GUN TO ANOTHER PERSON? DID YOU INFORM THEM OF THE DEFECT BEFORE SALE?
How many people actually clean the trigger group? I was guilty for a long time and my dad sure as heck was. I had a Ruger 77 fire upon closing the bolt once. I am pretty sure I didn't touch the trigger but I can't be sure. Anyone who has had an Negligent or Accidental(they are different) discharge will tell you, it is so un-nerving that you really don;t know what happened before it: IE did you or didn;t you touch the trigger? A for the Ruger I went to a gunsmith and found that the trigger group had over 20yrs worth of 3in1 oil varnished on the trigger group causing poor sear engagement. My dad thought a drop of oil was just the thing to keep it working good. This beginning my practice of cleaning the trigger yearly.

Let me add my name to the list of happy Remington customers. I purchased a new Model 700 BDL in .270 about seven years ago and have been very pleased with both it's accuracy and general function. I've experienced no problems with the rifle, but reading through this post and the many instances where problems have occurred, I would agree that we would all benefit from some straightforward analysis of this issue. Did the problems all occur with older model rifles, or those that had adjustments to their triggers? Did the identified design flaw with the Walker trigger get corrected and if so, when? I think current users need some guidance from an informed source (not CNBC).

Just in case anyone wants to know WAM, Bee, Parshall and yours truly are busy chasing elk and mulies. First 2 days we have collectively seen about 200 mulies and 20 elk. I get a chance to shoot a cow but only have a bull tag. Bee has bull and cow tags then 3 spike bulls (not legal) walk by him. Wam sees a big bull but he is not in rifle range. Just a matter of time till we make meat. So far the doe Parshall took out with his truck last night is the only thing we have bagged.

All . . .

I've owned about half a dozen Model 700s in the last seven years. I've obtained Model 700s long actions and had rifles built from them. I've fired about 5000 rounds through my 700s in the last seven years. I've shot out the barrel in a .257 Ackley Improved (Model 700 action), as well as in a .257 Roberts (Model 700 action). It took more than a few rounds to do this.

I've never had a misfire or an accidental fire in any of my Model 700s. This is despite some pretty significant heavy handling (read: abuse) on my part over the years, such as when I've incurred screwups and mistakes from various handloads, bolts I shouldn't have forced shut but kinda did, stuck live cases, etc. Every 700 gave me perfect reliability unless I screwed up, and even then not a single rifle ever tossed me a misfire or accidental fire, ever.

But . . . and I'm still not sure about this particular incident . . . several years ago I took a Remington 700 in .257 AI to a big-name gunsmith in the San Antonio area. My objective was to get a new barrel, to lighten (a bit)or replace the original trigger (which was set to about 4 lbs.), to "blueprint" the action to the new barrel, to glass and pillar the barreled action into an H.S. Precision stock, and a few other custom touches. After being greeted by the gunsmith, I handed my (empty, of course) rifle to him, who began inspecting it. He opened the bolt at one point and then slammed it shut very hard, very fast. I heard and saw nothing unusual. The bigname gunsmith, however, immediately claimed the rifle had slam-fired. He opened the bolt and slammed it shut again. I again heard and saw nothing unusual. The gunsmith again claimed that the rifle slam-fired. I immediately ordered the gunsmith to put a Timmney or Shilen trigger in the rifle and set it to 3lbs. Cost quite a bit of money (as part of a pretty expensive overall rifle rebuild) to do this. To this day I wonder if the original trigger was perfectly fine.

I suspect it was.

My view: the Remington 700 is perfectly safe as long as the person carrying it is perfectly safe. The actions of the latter create the history of the former.

TWD

Thank you for a wonderful counter to the preverbial roundhouse to the gut of Remington. I watched the slander with my son who is 15 and in his 3rd year of hunting. I provided no input during the article and asked him one simple question when it was over. "What do you think about that article?". His response not only suprized me with his keen ability to articulate an educated answer, it also pleased me to know that the basic safety rules we all teach are not just words to him but an intergral part of his hunting adventures. His first response was that the article was slander which I whole heartedly agreed with him. He began to discuss the obvious shortcomings of the article and how it could have been done better to show not only the downfalls but the successes of Remington, reporting the whole story with all the facts. He then said the best answer imagineable, "never point a weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot Dad". Thank you son for listening. My preaching has paid off. Mr. Petzal, he may be gunning for your job!!

My heart goes out to the family of the boy that was killed in the accident. No parent should see their child pass.

I have read most of the comments. In particular many of the comments talk about the proper handling of a firearm and pointing it in a safe direction. I too agree that gun safety is very important.

I own or have owned many model 700's and have never had a single instance of a malfunction in the field. I did have one at home, when I attempted to play gunsmith and lightened the trigger too much. I would get a slam fire closing the bolt or flicking off the safety. However, I NEVER loaded the rifle before testing the rifle. After my failed attempt I took my rifle to a qualified gunsmith and have not had a problem hence.

For those of you who are unsure if your rifle may have a faulty safety, here are two simple tests anyone can perform that will indicate a potential slam fire problem. The first, after making sure the rifle is empty,is to close the bolt as hard as you can about 10 times in a row. I mean really slam it down into place. If your rifle has a problem in this area, it should evidence itself.

Secondly, again with an empty rifle, work the bolt so that the firing pin is activated. Take the rifle by the barrel and slam the butt end onto a floor. Do this also 10 times. If the rifle has a problem with slam fires, you will most likely find it out with this test.

These tests are not foolproof, but I routinely check my rifles after cleaning them by performing these tests.

Finally, I would like to add that if any of you have ever read the safety manual that comes with a Remington rifle, which I have done, then you would have read the following statement several times. "A safety is a mechanical device. Never rely on it."

Think about it. We constantly engage and disengage a firearm's safety. It is no different than applying the brakes to your vehicle. Eventually the potential for a part to wear out and malfunction is a distinct possibility. If one doesn't fix their brakes and they kill someone in an accident is that the automobile manufacturer's fault? I think not. I believe that the same goes for a firearm. As a gun owner, we need to take the responsibility to check our weapons and properly maintain them.

The only true safety device is the human with the firearm in his/her hands. Read and comprehend the 10 cardinal rules of firearm safety and practice them. Be responsible for maintaining your weaponry. If you are not capable, then find a professional gunsmith that can give you proper advice. It's too easy to shove the blame onto the manufacturer.

George

183 comments and counting must be some kind of record?

While everyone wants safe guns, anyone who EXPECTS to have a perfectly safe gun better visit Toys R Us. Anything mechanical device will malfunction - in this case either going off when it shouldn't or failing to go off when desired. If we insist on Remington (or any other manufacturer) making a perfectly safe rifle, we will wind up with a design with four safeties, all of which engage as the bolt closes, and a 20-pound trigger pull!

For those posters concerned with "all the new people commenting about their problems with the remington 700", yeah this is a simple math problem not a conspiracy. People with problems with their Remington 700's misfiring are going to be a lot more likely to read the article and comment on it. I got driven here by an ad on Accuweather. I own one rifle(winchester model 74) and have done nothing in any hunting or arms forums online. The article is interesting to read, and it's a controversial topic so it will bring lots of new people to the site. People who have had misfires especially. The argument that "I haven't had a problem in x number of years with x number of rounds is silly. If 1% were affected, then yeah, 99% of you never had a problem and likely never will. Think a little smarter guys, do the math, or you risk coming off like dumb gun nuts.

I have a M700 ADL in 6mm Rem. I bought this rifle used in about 1971. I was 13 or 14 and my mother had to sign the 4473. It isindeed a very dangerous gun, ask the 200 or so Alabama whitetails I have collected with it (still waiting for the first trigger malfunction).

Pretty good post. I just stumbled upon your blog and wanted to say that I have really enjoyed reading your blog posts.

Remington triggers, properly maintained and untampered, are as safe as any on the market. I have probably had more than fifty come into my shop with owner induced problems that are easily corrected. My experience with these triggers goes back to the 721, 722, 725 and ends with the 700s of the mid 90s. These are fine triggers and this article is a hatchet job. No mechanical device can stand up to incompetence and neglect.

It would be nice to get the total story from an outsider. It seems to me that many of the opinions in this instant are biased. Both sides are putting down some pretty hard facts. Everyone knows news reporters make things look worse than what they really are but is it really as good as what we are trying to make it look?

well my grandpa has a 700 ADL in .30-06 and has no trigger problems with it it might be because of not good enough cleaning or some other problem.the only prlem granpa has had with his 700 is not that it goes off when ever it feels like it it is that it DOSENT go off some time only once or twice thought and hes taking it to a gunsmith soon.i think cnbc just paid the guys to say that all the owners i have talk too love there 700s and i whant 1 for my first deer rifle to

Be brand loyal to a fault all you want but when the engineer that designed the trigger mechanism is on the record saying something needed to be done then you have a real issue. I hope the people that are commenting today actually watched the live demonstration of the 700s going off multiple times without a trigger pull. This was not by some yahoo that jacked with the trigger. It was by military people on the shooting range. Anecdotally, I have a good friend whose son took a BDL to the woods last deer season. He chambered a round and the rifle discharged. Luckily, no one was in front of him and it was pointed in a safe direction but a gun should NEVER go off in this manner unless the trigger is pulled. All the gun safety in the world is not going to prevent another accident. Remington has already lost a few court cases and still refused to recall these rifles. Guess they are banking on settling with these injured people and hoping the new X-mark trigger will sweep these problems with the 700 under the rug. 5 million unsuspecting people out there. Remington has dropped the ball and have proven to me they put profits above safety.

Dave, I have 3 700's adjusted to 3 lbs. I have practiced safe gun handling and was taught at a very early age about gun safety, muzzle direction, fingers off the trigger, unload before crossing fences and entering vehicle or ATV, pulling up empty rifle on a rope up tree stands, you name the senario, I have probably done it. I tested all my empty rifles for accidental discharge by bouncing them on a hard floor butt first. Have yet to a problem. Nevertheless mechanical safeties cannot replace safe handling. If you take the responsibilty of gun ownership one should take responibilty for its use. A tragic accident taking a life is always a bad thing. Everyone should take heed and use firearms wisely.

I have to answer "Ken McD"- one of the basic rules of firearms safety is to "always know your back stop". So the tragic accident where the woman shot her son was a violation of basic safety. A trailer side is not a safe back stop. As with many firearms they are designed a certain way and to make changes can affect their safe operation. Any rifle that "malfunctions" should be returned to the manufacturer to be repaired. I have not heard of any police department that has taken Remington rifles out of service for this problem and no depart. would allow them to be used if there were such a problem as the liability would be too high. I would be interested to hear more about this problem and the reasons they are caused as I was thinking of purchasing a 700 myself. NRA member and Certified Police Firearms Instructor.

athomas: http://www.remington.com/pages/news-and-resources/safety-center/safety-m...

This "safety modification program" on 700s produced prior to March 1982 has been in place for years, since 2000 or 2001 I believe. It is in effect until Dec. 31, 2010 unless Remington extends it again.

It seems, although I've not confirmed, that 700s manufactured after March 1982 are not susceptible to this trigger/safety problem. In 2007 Remington replaced the Walker trigger with the X-Mark Pro trigger design, which renders the point moot. Pre-1982 700s should be sent to Remington for the safety modification. Post-2007 700s are fine. 1982-2006 700s....I haven't figured out yet if they're all clear or not.

Over my lifetime, I've either talked to, handled and shot in combination of more 700's than I can think of and not a single one has ever malfunctioned with the only exception of those that have been altered by or tinkered with by the owner or untrained/unauthorized individual.

This has been a no "BS" moment!

To Dale Freeman,
I thank you for the fact you think I'm completely stupid. I am going to have my gun fixed, but the issue I was talking about is that many people experience these "problems" with the 700. Is it every 700? No. In fact I haven't had a problem with mine. IN FACT!! I'm being RESPONSIBLE and getting is fixed anyway! When will you guys pull your heads out of your butts and see that the gun has a problem! IS IT ALL THE GUNS? NO!!! Do I think the 700 is a marvelous gun? Hell yeah. Could there be a problem. I think so. And as said above, I think it would be the responsibility and duty for Remington to keep their integrity and by so investigating the problem. Does this make me a left wing liberal? NO. I hope Republicans win! But what does this have to do with politics? Why can't we as hunters be responsible? My responsibility: get my gun fixed. Remington's responsibility: check out the guns! I would have no problem at all if Remington would say something about it, or at least investigate the problems that others here have obviously stated. By golly I'd stand behind them. I'm keeping my 700, and you can only take it when you pry it from my cold dead hands. But rest assured, that gun won't fire when you take it from my hands.

Cbrick I am saying I have a friend whose son had this exact problem with a BDL that discharged without a trigger pull. I am saying I started reading about this a year ago after I found out about the problem. I am saying that Remington has admitted there was a problem. I read the internal memos and I don’t care what network reported it. I am saying in the words of the engineer that developed this trigger there was a problem. He said it, I heard him and I don’t care what network it was on. I am saying that a Remington executive said in her own words, she knew there was a problem with discharges from the gun when the trigger was not pulled. She said it, I don’t care what network reported it.

I am saying that 12 people have been killed because of this problem and have been paid by Remington either by settling with them out of court or losing a court case. I am saying over 60 others have been paid due to injury because of cases settled out of court. I am saying that this is a problem Remington knew about and considered it too costly to do the right thing. All those are facts and they are sourced in other places other than CNBC. That is what I am trying to get across.

After reviewing the accounts of individuals as well as the data provided I must conclude that there is something going on. even a fouled rifle shouldn't go off as much as these accounts report. I reject the idea that all of these incidents could be the fault of a "perfect storm" of fouling and trigger tampering. So I believe that there should be an investigation launched by a third unaffiliated party, there findings could either clear Remington's good name, or dispatch the justice that is due. Both Remington and the American consumer can no longer afford to ignore this issue.

I should mention that I've tried repeatedly but have not been able to recreate the incident.

Mr Petzal I have a few questions and a few comments for you. If you want to learn a little about the remington walker trigger then try reading this (replace the DOT with a .)

http://www.flinthillsdiesel.com/Remington-Walker DOT pdf

It was written by Jack Belk.

You state that the rifle was pointed at Gus Barber, I am curious as to how you know this? Were you there? Or did the bullet ricochet before hitting Gus Barber?

What are you credentials as a gunsmith and/or trigger design engineer?

Did you write your above comments in order to be politically correct in the eyes of gun owners or as a search for the truth?

I think most of us understand that muzzle control is important and that we don't intentionally point a gun loaded or otherwise intentionally at a person, house, dwelling, livestock, etc. Where should your gun be pointed at the instant of an accidental discharge?

Would anyone of a sane and reasonable mind want to risk having a gun with a defective trigger design?

Just remember it's not propaganda if it's the TRUTH.

I just remembered something. The safety on earlier Model 700s locked the bolt, i.e., prevented the bolt from either deliberate or inadvertent unlocking. In response to the incidents involving accidental discharges, some changes were made to the trigger mechanism and safety--with the result that placing the safety on "safe" would no longer lock the bolt. Remington did not, however, issue a recall of all the Model 700s with possibly defective triggers. I think that it should have--but Remington probably considered the cost to be too high. However, Winchester had a problem with firing pins breaking on the Model 100, with the result that the firing pin could protrude through its opening in the bolt and cause a "slam fire," and Winchester arranged for free replacement of firing pins. I bought a Model 100 at a gun show and sent the old firing pin to Winchester and got a new one. I got a $15 check for a gunsmith to install the new pin--but it was easy enough to do myself. Remington should have undertaken a similar action for the Model 700. While I agree that the muzzle should never be pointed at something you cannot afford to destory--like a human life--we cannot excuse a defective and dangerous design because people should always practice safe gun handling. People make mistakes, and you don't want a defective design that's going to exacerbate the effects of a human mistake. The Model 700 that went off and killed the mother's son should not have gone off. With a Timney or Canjar or Jewell trigger, the odds are that such an accident would have never happened. So I think Remington was definitely culpable in this instance. I once had a .22 rifle that would do the same thing--go off when the safety was moved to the "off" position. I got rid of it. Nobody but nobody needs such a firearm--it's a tragedy waiting to happen. Remington should have bitten the bullet and issued a recall--it could have done it like Winchester did: send the part that corrects the situation and a check for having it installed. Should have been a 15-minute job from start to finish! Remington makes some of the world's best firearms, but it goofed when it didn't correct the M700 triggers that were defective. And here's the scary part: such defective triggers are lurking in Model 700s being sold at gun shows and being handed down through the generations. Remington should issue a recall NOW for all affected Model 700s and prevent some accidental shootings that will most certainly occur in the future if these defective triggers are not removed!

Facts:
*Gun pointed at ground
*Gun being held by my wife
*Gun just went off, finger not near trigger
*Bullet hit rock and ricocheted hitting me through both legs.
So now let’s hear some more brain dead comments about how gun safety is the rule, how no one should point a gun at anything they do not want to shoot. How it is the person's fault not the guns. Since when is pointing a gun at the ground while you are holding it an unsafe action? Since when is a gun going off without the trigger being pulled the fault of the person holding the gun. Come on guys/gals, show your inexperience and ignorance some more by spouting off all the clichés you have learned in your hunter safety classes. The design has a problem, it's that simple.
By the way I do firmly believe in gun safety and in the value of hunter safety classes. I have taken one twice myself even though I was not required to do so in my state. I just don’t believe people should make stupid comments when they have no firsthand experience. If you own a Remington 700 that has never ever gone off without someone pulling the trigger…you have NO firsthand experience. The issue at hand here is these guns sometimes fire unexpectedly. If yours has never done this, then you don’t have any firsthand experience with the issue. NONE. Stop trying to make it sound like you do.

GS, for some its a matter of wanting to be uninformed and/or being politically correct as they perceive it. Only a fool would knowingly want a gun with a flawed trigger design.

Remember you can lead a horse to water but you can't make the horse drink. Those who want to be informed will and those who refuse to be informed will continue to live in ignorance.

Dear Gentle Readers who think the 700 trigger may be defective,
You guys and gals have completely missed the point. The trigger performs as it was designed to have an adjustable trigger. It was made in an era where people actually took some responsiblity and didn't have helicopter parents or snot nose kids who tinker with stuff your not supposed to. Mr. Petzal asks the obvious question, "Was the trigger manipulated to fire upon closing the bolt or disengaging the safety?" Seems to be a simple question. As was said, anyone with a small screwdriver can do it. Instructions tell you to take to gunsmith to adjust. Just like the exploding Chevy truck gas tanks from NBC's Dateline. They couldn't replicate the accident so they add a pyrotechnic devise and made sure they have an "accident" which we all surely know is never our fault but someone elses. Don't mistake education for intelligence. Don't make a tragic accident into a ratings sweep. Seems BIG GREEN has tried to offer replacement safeties for older guns, its your decision to accept, put it off, and decide you don't need it.

The so-called inherent problem was reported as a factory flaw of sorts in the rifle. If you buy a car and modify it, WHY IS THE WARRANTEE NO LONGER APPLICABLE? The same holds true for just about anything. As david petzel pointed out the whole 'expose' broadcast was a witchhunt at best. Lousy investigation leads to even lousier reporting/narrating. It would be hilarious to ANY knowledgable (except that there were fatalities) gun owner to see the actual investigation conducted. Crusaders that don't do a proper investigation, are not crusaders, they are crackpots with some sort of agenda to pursue. I did NOT see the broadcast, but I can be assured that no technical data was provided as to what the flaw ACTUALLY was. So the possibilty of there being a manufacturing flaw is made irrelevant, it wasn't there. That leaves the 'human factor'. Back to buying a car, if I buy a car and fill it up with nitromethane fuel, bad things WILL happen. But the car maker isn't the cause. I AM!!!nuff said.

Woodsdog, I want to thank you for your comments. They were very helpful. Your comment and I quote; "if you handle the tool correctly and safely at all times, there should be absolutely no problems... ever." was particularly insightful. Oh… no wait, like I said in my post, my wife's gun was pointed at the ground when it went off. She was in fact handling the gun in a safe manner. So no, your comments just don't have much to add to the resolution of this situation. Sorry.

I have ordered a Jewell trigger for the Remington so this should take care of this unsafe firearm. Remington should have stepped up to the plate and issued a recall but it's time to give up on them and move on. I don't plan to read, or add anymore posts on this subject, so you all have a nice life. I certainly plan to.

Very strange coincidences happen in my life.

About a week ago, I was disturbed by the number of Remington owners who wrote in complaining of trigger problems which were the subject of this piece. I suggested that this should have some meaning to Mr. Petzal and that he should reconsider his point of view on the NBC story.

This weekend I joined my Dad in northern Vermont to sight in our rifles for the upcoming deer season. We usually take just a couple of shots to see if our rifles are still "on". I bought my Dad a Remington 700 Mountain LSS in 7mm-08 a few years back. It was made in 2002 and is a great light and highly accurate rifle. I always thought the trigger was a little light, but not extremely so. When I went to squeeze one off at the target yesterday, I barely brushed the trigger before it fired. I warned Dad that it seemed light. Dad -- who is 83 -- sat down at the bench, reloaded and with the gun pointed at the target, moved the safety forward, holding it between his thumb and forefinger -- no fingers near the trigger. When the safety hit the fire position 'BAM' the gun blasted jerking back against his thumb which was cut slightly, and startling my father. Fortunately, we are extremely cautious with our guns and always know where the muzzle is pointing, so there was no serious injury (though Dad could have gotten a serious case of "scope eye" if his thumb hadn't held the recoil back at the toggle like safety). Dad later worked the safety three more times (without ammo) causing it to dry fire TWICE MORE JUST BY MOVING THE SAFETY FORWARD!!! We are shipping the gun back to the Remington factory after we film and document the trigger problem with our local gunsmith. I told Dad about Petzal's article and my response to it. I never (in a thougsand years) imagined it would become a problem with my rifle.

So there you have it: Remington 700 with a dangerous trigger. Unless something very weird happened between the factory and my father's test yesterday, this is a defective trigger and I am now fully convinced that claims that such things do not exist are ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT.

Many of the people that have negative reactions towards Remington are people that have firsthand experience with this issue. I would guess the people in here that are defending Remington probably have not had problems. I would also guess many that defend them are also owners of a Remington rifle. No one wants “their” brand to have troubles and people that are gun enthusiast are brand loyal. I wouldn’t trade my 870 for anything based on its track record. That does not mean I am blind to these real problems that exist.

Compare the two responses by these different gun companies. Ruger had an issue with the SR9 trigger. Immediately they send out a recall. The pay for the shipping, modify the trigger for free, fix the problem and ship a free magazine for your trouble. The problem is fixed and customers appreciate the honest and straight foreword approach. Loyalty is strengthened because Ruger took care of business even though it cost them untold dollars….short term.

Compare that to Remington’s response. They do not recall. They have a voluntary program that has been ignored by most model 700 owners. They settle court cases and are still unwilling to publicly admit to their customers that there is a problem. They may have saved money by this strategy…short term. Long term, we’ll see.

The real hatchet job here is from Petzal. Notice that nothing in his article challenges, or even addresses, the empirical evidence offered in the report -- that thousands of gun owners have reported spontaneous firing, that independent engineers and the original designer of the trigger identified the flaw, that internal Remington documents also identify the flaw, and that there is a cheap fix. Rather than focus on the evidence, Petzel runs up the tired old flag of blaming the messenger (CNBC) or the operator (the mother who shot her son). If a gun fires when you haven't pulled the trigger -- and the gun is unmodified -- it is defective. Where the gun was pointed and who reported the story is immaterial. Many of the other posters appear to not own a 700, or didn't watch the report. I own an unmodified 700 and have had it fire by simply moving the safety. I watched the entire show, and it actually addressed many of the complaints raised by oher posters who apparently didn't watch it. Accepting that there are problems with the 700 doesn't make me any less of a Gun Nut than Petzel, but it might make me a more objective one.

I haven't commented in a quite a few days now, but I can see that posters, like the one above, can't keep my name out of this mess.
My posts still hold the record for the most negative votes. At one point there were -20, now I'm just -18.
The funny thing is that those posts didn't say anything that hasn't been posted by the growing number of hunters who have had problems with their 700's.
It seems that Mr. Petzal, should do the right thing here, (seeing how Remington won't), and call for a full investigation, and call Remington out on the carpet and fix thise decades long problem.
Remember these numbers that came right from Remington.
About 1% of the rifles are defective. That's 50,000 rifles. That's an average of 1000 rifles in every state.
Think about that.

I know I said I would not read or post anymore on this subject, but sorry, I couldn't resist. I just installed a new Jewell trigger in my Remington 700 BDL, and it seems to be great. From all I have read this is one of the best triggers on the market, and solves the problem. I never said the Remington 700 was not a great rifle. Mine just had one of the many unsafe triggers that are evidently out there. It's like a car with an unsafe tire. If it's a great automobile, keep the car, change the tire, and you'll be much safer and happier. Take out two screws, drive out two pins, drop in the new trigger, reassemble, and bingo...problem solved. A great gun is even better. I can't wait to go sight it back in.

Anyone want to buy my old trigger? Only kidding, after the hell it has put me through I would never sell it to anyone. It's going back to Remington with a note for them to stuff it where the sun doesn't shine.

I own a Rem. 700. It's a 270 and this past weekend I was hunting when a big buck came out. I raised my gun, found the deer in my scope sights and tried to take off the safety. It felt a little harder to move than normal but didn't pay it much attention until it clicked up to fire. When it clicked up the gun fired and I missed my buck. People are right gun safety is important but taking off the safety and the gun that you have hunted with for years just goes bang.. Not a good feeling at all... Where can I take it to get it looked at????

Dear Mr Petzal, I must strongly disagree with your position on the Remington 700 series "misfires". I own a Model 721 that has been in the family for many years. This rifle has been very well maintained and on a recent sighting in of a new scope, the gun discharged when I moved the safety from fire to safe. In that instance, my hand was no where near the trigger, so an accidental discharge from touching the trigger is out of the question. Fortunately, proper handling of the rifle caused the shell to fire down range. This instance has caused me to remove the bolt from the rifle so no one can use the rifle again. Remington should acknowledge their issue or at least offer a low cost upgrade for those of us who would like to continue to use the rifle. Without an upgrade to this rifle, I can assure you it will not be fired again.

Yes I am brand new to this forum...doesn't mean my opinion is any less important though. As I'm from Canada, the politics of how forcing Remington to remedy an unsafe situation does not affect my view. What does is safety. I do not own a Remington, but am looking at buying a new rifle right now for my daughter who is new to hunting, having shot a whitetail last year a close range and this year made a 365 yard shot on a whitetail with my rifle (a Mark V .300 Weatherby Mag) I was looking at getting her a 770 Remington in .270 cal, or possibly a Savage. While I recognize the very slanted journalism by CNBC, I also have to recognize that they did present facts,facts that seem to be supported by several people here. My daughter has been trained, both by me and by a course required by government regulation to get a Firearm Licence, how to safely use a firearm. Yet just the other day as we were preparing to go hunt, my daughter was holding my rifle while I changed gloves and when I looked up the barrel was pointed right at my chest! Yes she got in heck and hopefully has learned her lesson. So I have four kids who will all need to learn how to hunt and shoot. While we all are responsible to follow the 10 commandments of gun safety, sometimes some of us will slip, especially while learning. When I worked in Flight Safety I learned that it was never just one thing that caused a plane crash, but a "congruence of multiple errors." Firearm accidents, it would seem suffers the same problem. If you were me, considering the safety of Remington's trigger being in question, would you really buy a Remington for your inexperienced daughter and the next three kids to follow?

Mr. Petzal: Many of the things that you state about gun safety and the liberal media distain for guns and guns owners are correct. But surely you are not suggesting that (assuming no post-manufacture modifications or damage)there is no problem with a gun that will fire by moving the safety from fire to safe. That was afterall, the simple allegation made by the featured gun owner. A gun that fires when the safety is moved from fire to safe is inheritly dangerous and defective in my opinion; especially a gun with a magazine that cannot be unloaded without doing so. Mr. Petzal, in the interest of full disclosure, are you and Field & Stream (to which I subscribe and will continue to do so)willing to disclose how much advertising revenue F&S receives from Remington? That knowledge would assist in putting your commentary in the proper perspective. I will view my 700s in a new light after seeing the information disclosed in the documentary. Will I get rid of them?....absolutley not. Will I continue to shoot and enjoy them?....you bet. Will I trust the safety mechanism?....absolutley not.

I am in no way siding with MSNBC but my next stop with my Rem 700, 30-06 is to the gun smith. I love this rifle more than any onther fire arm I've ever owned but I bought it used and Sunday after I had unloaded my rifle I put it back on safe out of habit. I got to the truck and put it to fire to unlock the bolt because I remove the bolt when transporting and it dry fired with my finger no-where near the trigger! I did some looking around and saw the garbage MSNBC article and dug deeper thank goodness I found this one. I would suspect some dumb butt screwed around with the poundage adjustment screw so I'll take it in today to have it checked and set if necessary. The rifle is either dialed in on what I intend to kill or pointed up when the safety is taked off anyway so even if it did fire without the trigger being squeezed it would just be a big surprise. The Rem 700 is the toughest most reliable accurate rifle I've ever owned.

rutherford.jason77,

I cleaned the trigger on my Remington 600 with brake cleaner and it softened the sealant on the trigger adjustment screws! I know, older, different model rifle, etc. but you may want to make sure this didn't happen to you leaving the adjustment screws unsecured.

This discussion is educational, and the website has done its job. Reminds me of misfires, hangfires and slamfires seen and heard about over the years by other folks as I worked as a hunting guide, wildlife manager, and instructor. Don't mind so much the big buck getting away due to ice in the action causing FTF. Until a .375 goes through a vehicle toward you then it may be difficult to appreciate the slam/safety-fire problems. Practice safe handling, of course, but get the rifle tested. Rifles are not subject to government control like handguns in California are dropped from a height etc. before approval. Remember Bill Ruger on the stand explaining that the old SAA revolvers were designed just like the 1870's model, and users kept an empty chamber under the hammer, but some folks still lost legs so he added the transfer bar? The industry is still evolving so let the buyer beware not just of Remington 700's, but other makes and models as well. I miss Warren Page.

A belated postscript: I had a serious problem with the trigger on a model 700. It did go off when the safety was pushed forward. I sent it back to remington. They replaced the trigger with a newer -- and I believe safer -- trigger, at no cost. I do think Remington should have remedied what is apparently a design flaw from the beginning. Failing that, there should have been a recall. But they did replace my trigger and treated me fairly in the end.

First I would like to mention my introduction into hunting, it was drilled into my head that never to do anything with a weapon without first cycling the camber and check to see if it is unloaded. i do this to this day even with a pellet gun. second never, never, never point a weapon at anyone or anything unless it is the intended target and when handling it always point it to the ground in front of you.

I watched the CNBC show. There was somethings I noticed when the guys in camo were supposedly demoing the AD, he would pull the trigger then say "NO FIRE" then tap the bolt and it would fire. He repeated the exact same thing again or it was a loop of the first event.

I would like them to take a Model 700, new from the factory, and try to make it AD without making any modifications to it.

I am the 2nd owner of my Model 700 BDL 30.06 the original owner's son sold it to me after his father died it was 2 years old and I still took it to my local gunsmith to have it fully checked out and mount a scope on it. That was 40 years ago; I have never had a problem!

Briefly, I'm almost 70 years old, a retired vet and the owner of two Remington rifles, a 30-06 Model 721 (1951) and a .243 700 BDL 1970. Both quite accurate but had to return one to the factory because after firing a round, the 700 BDL bolt locked in place and could not be opened. The repair cost more than the original purchase price but I have not had any problems since. I caught the "report" when channel surfing because I never considered watching liberal TV before or since. Clearly a proven lack of credibility as far as I'm concerned.
Safety however is serious business and trigger mechanism should be a fail safe design, period. No exceptions, no excuses. You can recall the device but not the bullet. Far from being a firearms expert, I will not claim to be one. Until this issue is resolved, not only am I not going to use the rifles any longer, I'm not going to trade them in. I came across this forum while looking for replacement trigger mechanisms and Brownell's is out of stock for the 700 replacement. That alone speaks volumes.
As for safety procedures always being followed, remember we are all human beings and we do make mistakes. Constantly remind yourself and your hunting or shooting companions. As for me, the fact that Remington has started making a new trigger mechanism indicates at least some level of concern. I'm quite upset because I'm old enough to know that where there is smoke, there may be fire. Hopefully it's just another anti-gun effort and there is no justification for the attack on Remington. In that case, the network should be the recipient of a lawsuit. Someone should force Remington's hand in this matter and get this matter settled. I'm sure that the network is waiting patiently for a documented case of serious injury. There is probably a platoon of tort lawyers on call.

chiefbuck

Have you ever had a reminton 700 fire without pulling the trigger? Did you go to the Remington site,and see their side of the story? or the interview with Mr. Walker,who designed the trigger?
Getting all your information from anti-gun leaning Tv networks, and internet sites is not a good research method.

Here's Remington's side of the issue....

http://www.remington700.tv/#/home

Remember-the only "problems" with the Walker trigger have been due to one of two things-lack of maintenance/care,or idiots with screwdrivers who think they are gunsmiths.

As long as the triggers on your remington rifles have not been "adjusted' by unqualfied people,and you do not allow excessive dirt buld up in the trigger assembly,the Walker trigger is a safe trigger design.

If my memory serves me right-the recall offer was made during the time of excessive lawsuits against gun manufacturers,and in the era of "lawyer proof" triggers.

The fact that Remington is using a new trigger design has nothing to do with the Walker trigger being unsafe-it's due to advances in trigger designs.

Keep morons with screwdrivers away from your Remingtons-keep them cleaned and properly oiled,and always point the muzzle in a safe direction,and there will never be a problem.

I have always had at least one Remington 700,since the early 60's,there have always been multiple 700's in deer camp,and I have never seen one fire unless the trigger is pulled.

A number of years back, when I was unloading my pre 1981 Remington Model 700 BDL 7mm Rem Mag, I pushed the safety forward and my firearm fired on its own accord. Of course I had it pointed in a safe direction (the ground) so the only consequence was my embarassment in the company of my hunting buddies, and a renewed affirmation on being aware of where the muzzle was pointing.

The second time it happened was just a few months ago. I was teaching a Canadian Firearms Safety Course and was demonstrating to the class how the rifle could not be unloaded without taking the safety off first. When I moved the safety forward, it fired.

My reason for commenting here is that I just watched the program Remington Under Fire. I did not realize this was a common problem.

I like the rifle and its accuracy so I will keep it, but before using it I will look into replacing the trigger mechanism, if there is one available. If there is, could someone direct me to whom to contact.

Thanks,

Jim

I love the gun It's one of the Best rifles on the market but the problem is out there. I have a 700 BDL in a 300 Win mag and it fires every time you flip the safety to fire and I have never had the trigger worked on it's as stock as from factory. I plan on replacing the trigger with a Timney trigger with safety. This trigger blocks the trigger instead of the sear.