Please Sign In

Please enter a valid username and password
  • Log in with Facebook
» Not a member? Take a moment to register
» Forgot Username or Password

Why Register?
Signing up could earn you gear (click here to learn how)! It also keeps offensive content off our site.

Chad Love: Why Do High-End Fly Reels Cost So Much?

Recent Comments

Categories

Recent Posts

Archives

Syndicate

Google Reader or Homepage
Add to My Yahoo!
Add to My AOL

Field Notes
in your Inbox

Enter your email address to get our new post everyday.

April 13, 2009

Chad Love: Why Do High-End Fly Reels Cost So Much?

John Merwin's last blog post was both revelation and relief for me.

Revelation because you simply don't expect the fishing editor of Field & Stream to tell you he uses and enjoys $39 fly reels. Relief because I've been shopping around for a new reel to put on a custom five-weight rod and it seems to answer a question that's been bugging me throughout the entire process, which is: why the hell are high-end fly reels so damn expensive and do I really need one?
 
Case in point: On the left we have a used Sage 3200, discontinued but still bringing a couple hundred bucks on the used market. On the right, an ordinary current-production Calcutta 200B that retails for around $199. The Calcutta is mine. The Sage I stole from my brother because I own zero nice fly reels, all mine having been purchased from pawn shops for about the same price as a McDonalds Happy Meal.
 
Take apart the Calcutta and you'll find gears, ball bearings and lots and lots of forged, machined and intricately-connected parts. Take apart the Sage and you'll find, well, not a whole lot. Now I realize the Sage is a click-pawl reel and as such doesn't have a drag but I've looked at a lot of drag-equipped reels in the $150 to $300 range and I have to admit I just can't see why they cost so much. And don't get me wrong: this isn't about bass vs. trout equipment or elite vs. Bubba attitudes. The same argument could very easily be made about baitcasters because in terms of pure functionality there isn't a helluva lot of difference between a $69 Ambassadeur C3, a $200 Calcutta or a $450 Conquest. But from a manufacturing, materials and machining standpoint I can at least see where the price increases come from.

Not so with fly reels, at least to my eyes.
 
Does my lack of sophistication simply blind me to what high-end fly reels bring to the experience? Are they simply that much harder to make than a baitcaster? It's an honest question because I'm wavering here on my impending reel choice. On one hand I'm a degenerate high-end tackle junkie who would love to pair up my new rod with an equally classy reel. On the other hand I am chronically impoverished, so if John Merwin says a $39 reel will get the job done admirably and won't get me laughed off the river (I'll let my casting do that) then I find it awfully hard to break out the piggy bank.

Any thoughts?

Comments (17)

Top Rated
All Comments
from ken.mcloud wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

There has been some really interesting psychological research into this. (I am desperately trying to find the article in my bookmarks and I will post it later if I can find it)

They took high end niche products (home theater equipment, sports cars, high end fishing tackle, etc...) They then offered people a fake catalog of products giving brand names, specs and prices and asked people to choose a product to buy for their particular hobby (with their own money)

The Idea was to see if people's choices correlated with brand names, specs, or prices. The results: People almost always chose the more expensive items even if they were no-name brands with poor specs.

(this obviously only works with high end niche items, not gallons of milk or family sedans)

The theory is that we are all indoctrinated with "you get what you pay for" so when you are making a high-end discretionary purchase (like high-end fishing tackle or home theater equipment) you are pre-programmed to think "more expensive = better"

The companies know this, so they know, once they get out of the sub-$100 bargain market they will actually sell more reels at the $300 price point than at the $200 price point. Hence, we get $450 baitcasting reels that probably cost under $100 to actually manufacture.

It sucks to get your mind around, but in markets like this, the cost of the product no longer has any correlation to its value.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from chuckles wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

I usually do extensive research before making significant purchases for sporting gear. 99% of the time I have found that mid-range priced gear in quality brands is the best value. Most of my gear gets hard use, especially fishing stuff. I just can't see laying out hundreds of dollars for a fishing rod that is going to be stepped on by labs, strapped to atv's, taken for slides down the side of a canyon, etc. Even in optics where you usually get what you pay for there are binos etc. that I just can't imagine are worth the price. Of course I have never owned them so maybe I am wrong. I just can't imagine how I would feel if I left a $2000.00 set of binos sitting on a rock somewhere. Or busted a scope of the same price range. The Leupold VXIII on my A-bolt is probably the spendiest piece of gear I own and it has survived multiple falls, horseback rides and even having my haul rope break 12 feet up from the ground. For around $600.00.
That being said the cheapest stuff often costs you more when you have to replace it with decent gear that you could have bought in the first place.
Fly gear is sometimes ridiculously priced, at least for me. I would go with a quality brand in the medium price range after talking to alot of people who have used it. The fish definitely will not care and you will be able to afford the replacement if the unfortunate happens.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from johnmerwin wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

Top o' the morning to you, Mr. Love, and thanks for the kind words.
Reel price partly = sales volume.
Also, status.
Also, and to a lesser degree, performance. High-end fly reels are often incrementally better performing, but that often minor performance increase costs a bloody fortune!
And I did indeed say that $39 reel will get he job done. I did not say it wouldn't get you laughed off the river. Maybe if you hit it with a can of metallic-silver spray paint...

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from buckhunter wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

I can't see putting a $39 reel on a $700 rod. It's like putting cheap tires on a Ferarri. It just ain't right!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from spuddog wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

I can't see buying a $700 rod. I try never to pay more than I need to. I get the best quality for what I need and at the cheapest I can. Psychology should enlighten and set free not cloud our judgement and good sense.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from johnmerwin wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

buckhunter...
If you can afford the Ferrari, you can also...

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from shane wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

Ken - dead on.

I love flyfishing, I'm not an elitist by any means, and I don't like to peg it as an elitist thing, but to some degree, it is. There is no denying this. The market for flysfishing is a more upscale market than the general fishing market. They can pretty much charge whatever they want, and there will be plenty of flyfishermen willing to pay the price. I am not one of them. If John Merwin says that a $39 reel is perfectly satisfactory, then I will save money next time I buy one.

It's unfortunate that we, as consumers, let this kinda thing happen. No matter how little sense it makes, if we can afford it, we will pay a price that is way too high for what the product really is. The cost and work it takes to make that baitcaster is far more than for the fly reel, yet the fly reel's price tag is higher. Stupid.

Maybe this can be a new direction for F&S. There could be a new segment in every issue, or a new blog every week that lists and reviews gear that is cheap, yet gets the job done as well as the pricey stuff. That can be the F&S stimulus plan. All of us want new gear, and many of us can't afford the new gear we want. So open our eyes to good products at better prices.

I'm afraid to buy cheaper gear, but when an F&S editor says it's good, my fear goes away and I buy it. There needs to be more of this happening.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from OrangeNeckInNY wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

If it catches fish and works well, who cares if it costs $39??? And if it breaks, buy another $39 reel and you'll still be way ahead of the game, rather than spending hundreds of dollars on a single reel. Doesn't make any sense to me to buy the most expensive stuff that works the same way as the cheap stuff. My friend used to joke that he catches more fish with his $10.00 complete fishing rig than someone with the latest and greatest fishing rig catching nothing.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from suburban bushwacker wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

Evening chaps

For the research on price to value comparisons see Robert B. Cialdini and his hilarious and groundbreaking book 'influence'.

I have the self same reel that John Merwin recommends and it's fine. Not perfect but it does the do.

As ever if we really wish to look into the soul of the fly fisher, the trout bum himself John Gierach has been there and done that already

'If we carry purism to it's logical conclusion, to do it right you'd have to live naked in a cave, hit your trout on the head with rocks, and eat them raw. But, so as not to violate another essential element of the fly-fishing tradition, the rocks would have to be quarried in England and cost $300 each.'

SBW

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from trout26805 wrote 3 years 5 weeks ago

Ths basic idea of a fly reel is to hold the flyline. That being said why would anyone over pay for a reel. The only exception I can see is heavy fishing like Tarpon and the like in that case you will reel in the fish. Most times its used to hold the line and in 50 years of Trout and Bass fishing I never reeled in those fish with my fly reel.
Bottom line access the need for an expensive reel and chances are a $30-50 reel will do it all.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from buckhunter wrote 3 years 5 weeks ago

My biggest probelm with a $39 reel is that I have a box load of them that I have purchased over the years and will never use again because I now own several quality reels. I wish that 30 years ago I would have just sucked it up one time and bought a good reel that would last a lifetime.

I would have saved a lot of money.

Yes, cheap reels can do the job but they can just as easily fall apart in the middle of the river or worse yet while fighting a fish.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Moose Lodge wrote 3 years 5 weeks ago

I own several reels including a delicate vintage Hardy, but I still do nearly all of my fishing with a Pflueger Medalist 1494 I purchased in the mid-1960s (when the Medalist was at its peak of quality). It worked for me then and it still works for me now. It is sturdy, and after all these years of hearing its comforting sound any other reel's sound seems foreign to me. I usually outfish most of the people I'm with or meet on the stream, but when I don't it is because they know the stream better or are more knowledgable about which fly to use and how to fish it; not because of our reels.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from mvksweeney wrote 3 years 5 weeks ago

Splurge, the extra money will be well worth it in the long run. By buying a cheaper reel for your custom, and extremely expensive and nice rod, you would essentially be doing the same thing as someone who purchases a Ferrari car body, and instead of putting an engine in the car that will allow the cars aerodynamics and performance be maximized, they place a regular 4 cylinder engine in the car so that it runs. Get the full performance from your expensive rod by matching it with an equally expensive and high preforming, long lasting reel.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from JohnMD1022 wrote 3 years 3 weeks ago

We use what we like. Arnold Gingrich, I believe, referred to fly reels as the angler's jewels. And in the case of fine reels, he was correct.

There is nothing wrong with a 45 year old Pfleuger Medalist. I gave a 1494 to a 13 year old boy who was starting out, in 1992. I had purchased it in 1966 while a student at the Univ of Utah.The kid has used it hard for 17 years and it is still as good as the day it came out of the plant.

I have owned reels from across the price spectrum. An Archie Walker Trout reel cost me a week's pay (take home) when I ordered it, and i waited 6 months to get it.
It stays at home these days because it's too valuable to fish... :).

I have owned Hardy Hardy's, and reels they built for others, including one of the original, unmarked Orvis CFOs. Lightweights, a baby St George, a JLH (my favorite Hardy model) and a Perfect have all been mine. Currently, I have a JLH and one of the green Winston Perfects. My wife has an LRH.

J.W. Young's have come and gone; one was labeled Battenkill.

I even had a couple of early resin Berkleys.

Now as to the cost factor:

Quality always costs more. Better design (well, not always), better metallurgy, better castings, better machining, closer tolerances, exacting heat treatment and better finish are never cheap.

It all adds up to durability, light weight and aesthetics.

All of the above is in reference to trout reels. Saltwater reels are a separate category. The demands placed upon a reel by large fish and harsh conditions dictate the need for a a high quality product. Still, the Pfleuger 1498 is used by a lot of people. I have one myself.

If you want an inexpensive reel, go to ebay and search out a NOS (new old stock)Medalist. I've seen them in the original box for under $50.

I love my fine reels, and am currently covetous of a Marryat Baby #2 to match up with the 7' Scott 3 wt. glass rod that never gets used a lot simply because I don't have a good reel to fit it.

Just the humble opinion of a long-time fly fisher.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from headforthetropics wrote 3 years 3 weeks ago

Base your purchases on the following two questions:

1. Can you (honestly and realistically) afford that $500 reel?

2. Will that $500 reel make you happy?

If you have answered 'yes' to BOTH of those questions, then buy the reel. Why? Because life is short: it's OK to surround yourself with all the toys that make you happy. Just be sure not to look down on those with $39 reels.

headforthetropics@gmail.com

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from woodsmanj35 wrote 1 year 52 weeks ago

In my opinion a medium priced rod and medium priced reel is better that a cheep reel and expensive rod or vise versa.

-1 Good Comment? | | Report
from steelhead08 wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

Where has this article been all my life?

0 Good Comment? | | Report

Post a Comment

from ken.mcloud wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

There has been some really interesting psychological research into this. (I am desperately trying to find the article in my bookmarks and I will post it later if I can find it)

They took high end niche products (home theater equipment, sports cars, high end fishing tackle, etc...) They then offered people a fake catalog of products giving brand names, specs and prices and asked people to choose a product to buy for their particular hobby (with their own money)

The Idea was to see if people's choices correlated with brand names, specs, or prices. The results: People almost always chose the more expensive items even if they were no-name brands with poor specs.

(this obviously only works with high end niche items, not gallons of milk or family sedans)

The theory is that we are all indoctrinated with "you get what you pay for" so when you are making a high-end discretionary purchase (like high-end fishing tackle or home theater equipment) you are pre-programmed to think "more expensive = better"

The companies know this, so they know, once they get out of the sub-$100 bargain market they will actually sell more reels at the $300 price point than at the $200 price point. Hence, we get $450 baitcasting reels that probably cost under $100 to actually manufacture.

It sucks to get your mind around, but in markets like this, the cost of the product no longer has any correlation to its value.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from shane wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

Ken - dead on.

I love flyfishing, I'm not an elitist by any means, and I don't like to peg it as an elitist thing, but to some degree, it is. There is no denying this. The market for flysfishing is a more upscale market than the general fishing market. They can pretty much charge whatever they want, and there will be plenty of flyfishermen willing to pay the price. I am not one of them. If John Merwin says that a $39 reel is perfectly satisfactory, then I will save money next time I buy one.

It's unfortunate that we, as consumers, let this kinda thing happen. No matter how little sense it makes, if we can afford it, we will pay a price that is way too high for what the product really is. The cost and work it takes to make that baitcaster is far more than for the fly reel, yet the fly reel's price tag is higher. Stupid.

Maybe this can be a new direction for F&S. There could be a new segment in every issue, or a new blog every week that lists and reviews gear that is cheap, yet gets the job done as well as the pricey stuff. That can be the F&S stimulus plan. All of us want new gear, and many of us can't afford the new gear we want. So open our eyes to good products at better prices.

I'm afraid to buy cheaper gear, but when an F&S editor says it's good, my fear goes away and I buy it. There needs to be more of this happening.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from suburban bushwacker wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

Evening chaps

For the research on price to value comparisons see Robert B. Cialdini and his hilarious and groundbreaking book 'influence'.

I have the self same reel that John Merwin recommends and it's fine. Not perfect but it does the do.

As ever if we really wish to look into the soul of the fly fisher, the trout bum himself John Gierach has been there and done that already

'If we carry purism to it's logical conclusion, to do it right you'd have to live naked in a cave, hit your trout on the head with rocks, and eat them raw. But, so as not to violate another essential element of the fly-fishing tradition, the rocks would have to be quarried in England and cost $300 each.'

SBW

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from chuckles wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

I usually do extensive research before making significant purchases for sporting gear. 99% of the time I have found that mid-range priced gear in quality brands is the best value. Most of my gear gets hard use, especially fishing stuff. I just can't see laying out hundreds of dollars for a fishing rod that is going to be stepped on by labs, strapped to atv's, taken for slides down the side of a canyon, etc. Even in optics where you usually get what you pay for there are binos etc. that I just can't imagine are worth the price. Of course I have never owned them so maybe I am wrong. I just can't imagine how I would feel if I left a $2000.00 set of binos sitting on a rock somewhere. Or busted a scope of the same price range. The Leupold VXIII on my A-bolt is probably the spendiest piece of gear I own and it has survived multiple falls, horseback rides and even having my haul rope break 12 feet up from the ground. For around $600.00.
That being said the cheapest stuff often costs you more when you have to replace it with decent gear that you could have bought in the first place.
Fly gear is sometimes ridiculously priced, at least for me. I would go with a quality brand in the medium price range after talking to alot of people who have used it. The fish definitely will not care and you will be able to afford the replacement if the unfortunate happens.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from johnmerwin wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

Top o' the morning to you, Mr. Love, and thanks for the kind words.
Reel price partly = sales volume.
Also, status.
Also, and to a lesser degree, performance. High-end fly reels are often incrementally better performing, but that often minor performance increase costs a bloody fortune!
And I did indeed say that $39 reel will get he job done. I did not say it wouldn't get you laughed off the river. Maybe if you hit it with a can of metallic-silver spray paint...

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from buckhunter wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

I can't see putting a $39 reel on a $700 rod. It's like putting cheap tires on a Ferarri. It just ain't right!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from spuddog wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

I can't see buying a $700 rod. I try never to pay more than I need to. I get the best quality for what I need and at the cheapest I can. Psychology should enlighten and set free not cloud our judgement and good sense.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from johnmerwin wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

buckhunter...
If you can afford the Ferrari, you can also...

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from OrangeNeckInNY wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

If it catches fish and works well, who cares if it costs $39??? And if it breaks, buy another $39 reel and you'll still be way ahead of the game, rather than spending hundreds of dollars on a single reel. Doesn't make any sense to me to buy the most expensive stuff that works the same way as the cheap stuff. My friend used to joke that he catches more fish with his $10.00 complete fishing rig than someone with the latest and greatest fishing rig catching nothing.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from trout26805 wrote 3 years 5 weeks ago

Ths basic idea of a fly reel is to hold the flyline. That being said why would anyone over pay for a reel. The only exception I can see is heavy fishing like Tarpon and the like in that case you will reel in the fish. Most times its used to hold the line and in 50 years of Trout and Bass fishing I never reeled in those fish with my fly reel.
Bottom line access the need for an expensive reel and chances are a $30-50 reel will do it all.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from buckhunter wrote 3 years 5 weeks ago

My biggest probelm with a $39 reel is that I have a box load of them that I have purchased over the years and will never use again because I now own several quality reels. I wish that 30 years ago I would have just sucked it up one time and bought a good reel that would last a lifetime.

I would have saved a lot of money.

Yes, cheap reels can do the job but they can just as easily fall apart in the middle of the river or worse yet while fighting a fish.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Moose Lodge wrote 3 years 5 weeks ago

I own several reels including a delicate vintage Hardy, but I still do nearly all of my fishing with a Pflueger Medalist 1494 I purchased in the mid-1960s (when the Medalist was at its peak of quality). It worked for me then and it still works for me now. It is sturdy, and after all these years of hearing its comforting sound any other reel's sound seems foreign to me. I usually outfish most of the people I'm with or meet on the stream, but when I don't it is because they know the stream better or are more knowledgable about which fly to use and how to fish it; not because of our reels.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from mvksweeney wrote 3 years 5 weeks ago

Splurge, the extra money will be well worth it in the long run. By buying a cheaper reel for your custom, and extremely expensive and nice rod, you would essentially be doing the same thing as someone who purchases a Ferrari car body, and instead of putting an engine in the car that will allow the cars aerodynamics and performance be maximized, they place a regular 4 cylinder engine in the car so that it runs. Get the full performance from your expensive rod by matching it with an equally expensive and high preforming, long lasting reel.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from JohnMD1022 wrote 3 years 3 weeks ago

We use what we like. Arnold Gingrich, I believe, referred to fly reels as the angler's jewels. And in the case of fine reels, he was correct.

There is nothing wrong with a 45 year old Pfleuger Medalist. I gave a 1494 to a 13 year old boy who was starting out, in 1992. I had purchased it in 1966 while a student at the Univ of Utah.The kid has used it hard for 17 years and it is still as good as the day it came out of the plant.

I have owned reels from across the price spectrum. An Archie Walker Trout reel cost me a week's pay (take home) when I ordered it, and i waited 6 months to get it.
It stays at home these days because it's too valuable to fish... :).

I have owned Hardy Hardy's, and reels they built for others, including one of the original, unmarked Orvis CFOs. Lightweights, a baby St George, a JLH (my favorite Hardy model) and a Perfect have all been mine. Currently, I have a JLH and one of the green Winston Perfects. My wife has an LRH.

J.W. Young's have come and gone; one was labeled Battenkill.

I even had a couple of early resin Berkleys.

Now as to the cost factor:

Quality always costs more. Better design (well, not always), better metallurgy, better castings, better machining, closer tolerances, exacting heat treatment and better finish are never cheap.

It all adds up to durability, light weight and aesthetics.

All of the above is in reference to trout reels. Saltwater reels are a separate category. The demands placed upon a reel by large fish and harsh conditions dictate the need for a a high quality product. Still, the Pfleuger 1498 is used by a lot of people. I have one myself.

If you want an inexpensive reel, go to ebay and search out a NOS (new old stock)Medalist. I've seen them in the original box for under $50.

I love my fine reels, and am currently covetous of a Marryat Baby #2 to match up with the 7' Scott 3 wt. glass rod that never gets used a lot simply because I don't have a good reel to fit it.

Just the humble opinion of a long-time fly fisher.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from headforthetropics wrote 3 years 3 weeks ago

Base your purchases on the following two questions:

1. Can you (honestly and realistically) afford that $500 reel?

2. Will that $500 reel make you happy?

If you have answered 'yes' to BOTH of those questions, then buy the reel. Why? Because life is short: it's OK to surround yourself with all the toys that make you happy. Just be sure not to look down on those with $39 reels.

headforthetropics@gmail.com

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from steelhead08 wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

Where has this article been all my life?

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from woodsmanj35 wrote 1 year 52 weeks ago

In my opinion a medium priced rod and medium priced reel is better that a cheep reel and expensive rod or vise versa.

-1 Good Comment? | | Report

Post a Comment

bmxbiz-fs