While I understand the reasoning behind aprs, one buck rules, late (short) gun seasons, etc....I think we are walking down a slippery slope here.

Many people don't bowhunt for various reasons (age, level of strength, time) and most states won't allow Xbows in the general archery season (without a medical reason.

Gun hunters are already being squeezed out of places to hunt due to sprawl, now the dnrs are trying to limit their time in the woods but yet they want them to kill enough does to keep the herd in check.

Why are gun hunters expected to purchase the majority of tags (and thus create the revenue stream), balance the herd by killing does (as bowhunters can't kill enough deer to get it done), yet are expected to sit in inclement weather and not be able to enjoy the season in November and all that brings?

Bottom line, how long should gunhunters be expected to pay the bills, balance the herd and watch trophy bowhunters reap the rewards killing trophy bucks gunhunters helped create during the November rut?

Well?

Since 1979 except for time in far parts of the world I have hunted Macon CO Missouri. Before they got the 4 point antler restrictions and unlimited antlerless tags for $7.00 each we would see 20-30 deer opening weekend. Usually it would breakdown to something like 15 doe, 3 or 4 small bucks and 1 or 2 mature bucks. With a trip to the "Special D" meatlocker in Macon one could see lots of young bucks and not many bucks over 1.5 years old. It took about 3 years for the change to really become apparent. Now we see about 20-30 deer but it's 50-50 bucks to doe. Last fall on opening day three guys saw 6 shooter bucks. There is a photo of 2 nice bucks on page 7 of my photofile. To view just click my username then click on photos at bottom right of page. We also took several doe for extra meat.
In my home state of Kansas I have lobbied for point restrictions for several years to no avail. jjas is right. The late gun season in Kansas with it's really poor weather has me giving my best shot to the early ML and archery seasons.
A few years ago I bumped into a Kansas ML hunter dragging out a small 5 pt buck. He passed on 5 doe and shot the little buck. This thing about meat hunters shooting small bucks just dosn't wash with me. And how many of those little guys do you think are ever mounted. Folks just want to be able to say "I got a buck". IMO if you want meat shoot a doe. They eat better anyhow.
Oh, and now with a trip to Special D meats you actually can see dozens of wall hangars anybody would be proud of.
If you are looking for a very good chance at a big one Feild and Stream got it right when the picked Kirksville as a top destination. It's only 11 miles up the road from the farm we hunt. There is plenty of public land too.

Here in Ark. we've had a three pt. rule for over 5ys. now and I for one have'nt noticed any "bigger "deer". If your under sixteen yrs old you can still shoot "any" buck that walks by(first deer). I understand this helps get/keep youngesters in the game but those deer don't have a chance to grow. I can understand what they are trying to do but like jjas said, why sahould guys that are "paying" more,get "less" from the process. They should try to that into consideration when setting dates/and regs. thats my opionion though.

While having bigger bucks to hunt would be a great thing, I would miss the traditional hunting during the rut, since calling and rattling whitetail is one of my favorite hunting pursuits.

I hunt in MN and would love to see APR's for 16 and over. I don't think that means gun hunters are subsidizing archery trophy hunts. (I hunt all three seasons, archery, muzzleloader and rifle so I'm guessing I do my part for the revenue stream.) I think it will make hunting better for all the hunters during all the seasons. Better in that they are hunting a healthier deer herd with a balanced ratio. Certainly much of the anecdotal evidence you hear on this site from people in PA and other states indicates it is true
It is clear from the many conversations I have had with people who have hunted here their whole lives that there is greater emphasis placed on shooting a buck over a doe no matter what the size. For no apparent reason. A lot of people call me "doe killer" because I shoot every doe that I can legally kill until my freezer is full.
While the regs are easy to categorize as QDMA I think they are more intended to restore a healthy buck/doe ratio with the added benefit of allowing young bucks to mature and grow larger antlers. As for people self regulating, that might happen, given a lot of education to the young hunters coming up through hunter safety. Otherwise my sense is that with most of the folks I know, "a change is bad" mentality permeates almost everything they do. Without any outside compulsion, they will continue the status quo and shoot the spikers just to say they shot a buck.

why is shooting a huge buck so important. a 6 point buck i shot when my dad was making a drive to me was as much a "trophy" as the 19 point buck i shot in canada. qdm puts too much emphasis on size of the rack, instead of the quality of the hunt. we should be concentrating on getting new hunters, not on how people can shoot bigger deer.

a responce to the guy at top of the page..for starters 95 percent of the gun hunters dont put the time in like a bow hunter ,and i mean by setting in a tree stand day after day,,if they did they would have more bigger bucks,,when they got a gun in there hand they take the easy route and set where they can see for ever instead of in a bunch of thick woods where they can only see 20 yards,i see it here every gun season when ,all you see is blaze orange walking in every direction scaring every thing in sight and dont care what way the wind is blowing,that is a proven fact here, here you see deer all the time till the first day of gun season opens and every gun hunter in the woods shows up and dont care how much noise they make walking and breaking branches ,or what way the wind is blowing,,a true bow hunter that is dedicated to bowhunting dont do that they try to hide there sent,and try to sneak in the woods and not move till they leave,and when they leave there stand they sneak out, they dont stand and holler at a buddy a hundred yards away to see what he seen,if ya dont belive me show up in lyman county south dakota the first day of gun season and see what they are doing here ,most of them are driving up and down the roads in the dark back and forth before it ever gets light out scaring every thing away in the dark

I', 73+ ys young and hunted since I was l0 yrs old on our farm in NC. I had my first deerhunt in anothe part of the state as we had no Deer where I lived. I fell head over heels in love with Deer hunting. I've hunted many States including 5 of the Rocky Mtn States and have yet to see a DOE in a Truck. All want a Trophy Buck. Her at home we have about l50 Acres we handle proper by seeding, fertilizer, weed keller and we harvest the sub-prim ( gene lacking) small body thin horn bucks. We began taking the poor gene bucks about 5 yrs ago and now we have nice 4-6 yr old bucks with nice racks. LAst yr My Son and I killed 2 8's and a 9, all three older deer. I also hunted Montana and saw the results of KILL ANY BUCK AS YOU PAID 5K for a hunt. Now the Ranch I hunted is lacking Deer period, especially nice Bucks. I did harvest a Mulie, but was a Gene poor Buck that needed taking out. In general all game there was about 505 of what I saw 5 yrs ag on same ranch. Non-property hunters think any land they hunt is theirs and will invade said prperty when you ae away. Posting is useless and these Pachers ride the roads at night and kill the EYES they see. Game Wardens are few and far between. A few of us land owners have taken it upon ourselves to monitor this pratice and a shot or two over their heads does help for a few dys, then same old stuff. N>C> wher I live has extended its Deer season begining first week of Nov. to Jan. lst.I'm thinking it will make matters worse, but if I got a rifle for Christmas i would love to give it a try out before the next yrs season.License fees out West are out of the average guys raange and the locals think all land is theirs and they pay about 10% of what I pay for tags. They (the states) do not realize the $$ we NR spend other than for tags. I do feel that the Rocky Mtn States should have a weeks season during the Rut for Elk, as l85 is not good odds for the cost involved. I hate Fenced Hunts, but unless some change made out West, soon that is all you can hunt. Plus most locals in the Rockies HATE us NR hunters and will strive to send you to a aea with no game period. Thankful I have 2 connections, one in C0 and one in MT that allows me to hunt for a reasonable fee and they issue only a given # of tresspass permits. Yes, Does are good eating and I eat what I kill. Once my freezer is full I yet go hunting, but mostly to enjoy the outdoors and try to kill Foxes and Yotes. As the old saying goes, the worst day afield is better than the best day at work. I hunt from a ground Blind and with a Buddy heater and stay warm and enjoy the outdoors. It's like going to a restriced park to see the different game. When you guys reach my age, the # of points is not my goal, my goal is to be able to get out and try my newer guns if the Trophy does come my way. Back to the Rockies, once you hear or see a 6 x 6 bugle, you are ruined for life. By all means go while young enough to walk the Mtns and see Gods wonders. Shoot-um-straight and often. A gun that shoots whee you aim is all you need providing its ample gun to take the larger game with one well placed shot. And yes, at l28 lbs and 5'8" a 06 with l80 gr Scirocco bullets will kill anything I hunt in NA.I suggest your first biggame hunt to the West be a Antelope hunt. Is a great first big game hunt for most of us. Ok enough mouthing, take care. Have a good season and pratice till your gun is an extension of your frearm.Lastly, Bow hunters do have the first opportunity at the trophy game each fall, especially the Rut on Elk. If you plan to hunt Mulies, Elk try Montana as they have a 5 week season or till you fill your tag, plus small game, .birds and fishing if you buy the Combo license@$658.00 Lastly the Lawn Mower Muffler does work@ less than a cost of $25.00. Even on larger calibers other than the 22 mags.

Not that I don't enjoy seeing or being able to take a big buck but rules like these I think can be detrimental to hunting as a whole. If you watching hunting TV and read the magazines you would assume everyone should have a food plot, can pay huge out of state fees, and routinely kills record book deer. The reality is most of us don't do these things. We just hunt because we love it. Making rules to grow bigger bucks just seems like anti-hunting ammo. Isn't hunting supposed to be about fellowship with friend and family, taking part in nature, and population control?
Hell the whole earn a buck program had to come about because we are bombarded with this "kill a buck or lose you manhood" mentality. It just my opinion but the whole QDMA system is not doing anything to recruit new people to the deer hunting. If anything it has cause people to be extremely guarded about their land and is probably directly responsible for the most horrible and access limiting thing in hunting the "hunting lease".

Sorry! My previous post was in the wrong blog.

I agree with buck hunter 17. Leave the deer season alone. Why fix something that isn't broken?

and i said 95 percent not every body

Dave,

I can appreciate the candor and like you I purchase multiple tags every season too(at least one for bow, gun and muzzleloader).

Best of luck this season.

Jim

It is interesting to read the posts from you whitetail hunters back east... You live in a target rich environment with many more opportunities to take game than hunters in my state do!

Here in Washington State, we have no fewer than 135 Game Management Units. The boundaries of the units must be clearly understood as the regulations for each unit are different. Only 8 of those Game Management Units are "any deer" units. The rest are "Any Buck; "2 point minimum" or "3 point minimum". That would be the western "one side" method of counting points. Any place that the reg's are "any deer" -- there is a really good chance that you won't see "any deer". Even if you get a doe tag for a buck only unit, through the special lottery system, it will be in a unit where taking even a doe is really difficult.

In our state, you cannot hunt different methods and different seasons. If you choose archery, you only get to hunt that season and that method; same with muzzle loading season and modern firearm.

On the western side of the state, where I hunt, the terrain is remarkably rugged, the brush nearly impenetrable and the black tail deer are wary and live deep in the darkest reaches of the forest.

It isn't any wonder that hunter success rates in Washington hover around 25%. And that would be only one deer allowed, per season, per hunter.

In my 7 years of hunting, there has only been one year when I was not one of the 75 out of a 100 that walked out of the woods empty handed. It was a glorious day and the 2&1/2 year old, 3 point buck was one of the hardest earned trophies (not just hunting) of my life.

It seems good that I have had to learn to hunt under these conditions -- if I'd learned how to hunt where the only complaint is that people take spike bucks when they should have and could have taken does, I'd have been finished after the first season out here.

oh my god just sacrifice a little for a lot. if we move the season more people all over the state will have an opportunity to harvest a deer. we all no that shooting doe's is the only way to manage the population, and they can be hard to come by during the rut because of the pressure the bucks put on them. so if it is moved, that would provide more bucks an opportunity to survive (increasing the quality) the year and increase the chance of the so called meat hunters a better shot at filling the freezer with tasty doe meet instead of a stinky 2.5 year old buck that all minnesotans already have a box in there garage filled with racks that nothing will ever hapen too its a discrase. IF YOUR NOT GOING TO MOUNT IT SHOOT A DAMN DOE THEY TASTE MUTCH BETTER.