David,

Out of curiosity, what were you shooting?

Looks like the infamous E.R. Shaw MK VII

To All: What I am shooting is the fabulous Shaw MK VII .30/06, which has a full-scale article coming up on it in the magazine. The particular version I have is $975; prices start at $650 and go to $1200. It shoots like a sumbitch.

David
What cartridge and load are you using including primer type and manufacturer? I believe I know why your book of sorrows is not having a happy ending.

O’this is too easy!

That's a possibility, I've seen people blow apart the newer large triangle screens!

Dave, was that spiral fluting on your barrel. Isn't the rifling supposed to be on the INSIDE, LOL.

buckstopper

Don't tell David the rifling supposed to be on the INSIDE!!

I might hurt hid feelings!!!

Nice video.

I don't own a Chrony and am not sure I want to. One of the reasons I bought my first bolt-action rifle in .30-06 about twenty-five ago was that a couple old timers told me that competitive cartridges like .270, .280, the 7mm and .300 magnums, etc. were all factory loaded 200-300 fps slow, whereas the .30-06, which was a low-pressure round, usually achieved factory ballistics out of the box. Gun writers, who assume that every child's first toy was a Lee Loader, don't care about factory ballistics, so I never found out if the old guys were right.

Were the old guys right or not?

Note to self: DO NOT ENTER A SHOOTING MATCH AGAINST MR. DAVID E. PETZAL. Actually and seriously, I have seen many persons shooting from a solid bench, who were less steady.
As for the chrono, I don't need one, and have turned down many opportunities to "run a few rounds through this thing to see if your load clocks with the books". What I am looking for is accuracy, at a velocity that is safe, and will allow me to reload the case many times. Thus, my ammo is considered by my shooting partners anemic, mostly. Older and wiser, I start a load at the recommended end of the manual listing, and work up at the rate the tech did, until accuracy is achieved, record that load in my own book of tears and continue upward until either accuracy suffers, or pressure signs show.
Then, I drop back 10 or 15%, load up a fair test, usually 10rnds. shoot three shot groups, on several days to see if the grouping is consistent enough for the purpose for which the load and rifle is intended. This method has worked well for me since 1963, and I see no reason to change, but I learned the hard way, with a chrono. The book said I could achieve 3850fps in a 22/250 with 40gr. 380 and a Win.120 primer. I loaded 20rnds., went to the range where my buddy had his chrono set up, and proceeded to show off my high stepper. The first round was hard to extract, but I saw my reading was only 3745. Didn't shoot any more, went home, pulled the bullets, and loaded 42gr. When I tried to open the bolt after the first shot the next day, it wouldn't budge, my buddy lent me a rubber mallet and I tapped the bolt open. My Dad said many times, while I was growing up,"son,foresight is not always very good, but hindsight is always 20/20". So It was with that prized rifle, you guessed it, I fired it again with that load that probably was 65,000 to 70,000psi., and the chrono said 3766fps. after I picked the brass out of my hand and proceeded to tell the whole world how I had been grossly misinformed and cheated. It cost me $35 hard earned cash to get a gunsmith to remove the barrel and open the bolt and resurface the bolt face, lap the lugs, and tell me how stupid I was. That taught me a valuable lesson. Caution is the best avenue for any handloader. And if you really screw up like that, throw the gun away, don't subject yourself to that kind of chewing out.

Just wondering here Dave... it sounds like a lot of the times you don't get what you want from the loads that you make but do you get what you want from factory loads?

Sorry about the extra "r" in my last post. The coffee has not kicked in yet.

Dave:

So how do you calculate your muzzle velocity when your chrono is 15 feet from the muzzle?

I use a ballistic calculator and just keep moving the MV until the "5 yard" reading is equal to the chrono reading. Usually 15-25 fps difference or so. Is ther ea better way?

To Florida Hunter 1226: For the past several years, every manufacturer whose ammo I've clocked has delivered exactly the velocity promised, and not infrequently, it's more. With handloads, I get what I expect probably 70 percent of the time. My on-camera whining was just to gain sympathy.

To WA Mountain Hunter: I don't bother. The bullet drops so little velocity at 15 feet that I simply count is as muzzle velocity.

To PBHead: Regretfully, I've never used reduced loads. Take the pain and fear out of shooting a rifle and what are you left with?

To Dick McPlenty: I've never fired any Kimber that was not terrific, including the 84M. Great, great gun for the money.

To FocusFront: What you've written is the exact opposite of what I've seen. The .270, et al, have always been loaded right up to specs. The .30/06, however, used to be loaded down, probably because of all the old, questionable '06s out there. You'd clock a 180-grain load that said 2,700 fps on the box and get 2,550, or something like that. No longer true. O6s are now loaded right up to snuff like anything else. There are too many chronographs out there for it to be otherwise.

To ye who have made mock of the Shaw's helical flutes: I, too, had my doubts until I shot the gun. Now, appearances be damned.

I don't own a chronograph either, but would find it interesting to see what all my loads from various rifles actually do for muzzle velocity. The only load I ever had chronographed was for my 7mm Weatherby Magnum in about 1993. Using 68 grs. of H-4831 with the 175-grain Nosler Partition from a 26" Douglas barrel, the readings were all between about 2970 and 3008 fps. I could probably increase that load a grain or two and eke out another 75 feet of velocity, but what the hell.

I was waiting on someone to ask! Maybe, under the economic circumstances; it was pulled for "poor taste"?
I'd rather talks guns anyway.

Dave, were you using powder faster than 4350 with a 180gr bullet?

Jim in Mo-
DP had printed a short story about "how the little Cadillac car that couldn't go up the hill" I guess making the point that GM kind of had it coming for hard economic times...not his words mine but you get the drift.

Thanks for the response dave. That off hand shooting over the chrony was worth the video.I've seen plenty of guys evaporate chronies from the bench let alone off hand.Reminds me of what a local painter said about experience."After 30 years of doing something you're bound to become fairly competent,even if it is finger painting".

My loads shoot what the book say!

Must be doing something right!!!

With the 24in barrel.

After a morning of riding our foxtrotters the kid and I loaded up 8 rifles and 2 handguns for a trip out to our desert shooting range. After checking a few rounds through the chronograph of course the wind came up and it started to rain. In the desert you need to leave when it rains as the two track roads quickly turn to slippery gumbo. The kid wanted to fire one more .416 as he had previously selected a gigantic ant hill as a target. A 400 gr Hornady DG at 2385 fps or so sure makes those little critters angry when it blasts into their house. I couldn't convince the kid to dig out the bullet for closer examination. He must be getting wimpy with age being afraid of a few thousand black ants who don't seem to want additional excavation in search of a bullet.

Prior to listening and watching David shoot lead me to believe he was far better at Microsoft Words equipped with spell check and stuff than his shooting ability. For his chronograph to last 25 years and being 4 generations obsolete such as the one I have, I find he is a better shot than he lets on especially being a “south Paw”!!

Dave,
I thank you for this video. I remember something on the message board about chronographs, and i had no idea what they where. I thank you for explaining what it is and what it does. I would like to ask for more informational videos like this one, if it is not too much to ask for.

Nate

Coop, Meant to add. I can see the value in using a LRM primer in an '06 and cold weather with compressed powder. I've just never tried them.

Jim in Mo

If the load posed a pressure problem, I wouldn’t be shooting them especially handing a box or two once in awhile to my friends.

I’ve found using magnum primers in “SLOWER” and I SAID “SSLLOOOWWWEERRR”!!!!! Burning rates powders starting with IMR4831; I get more stable velocities and pressure. The byproduct, stable performance in both Desert and Arctic conditions. The pressures and velocities across my chronograph showed no noticeable changes in ether environment, just pure awesome performance. I wouldn’t use Magnum primer in any 25/270/280/30/35/338-06 case slower than IMR4831. Winchester 760 I have found using CCI’s200’s in 25-06 I’ve experienced hang fires! Perhaps it may have been the batch of primers. For Win 760 I use Federal 210’s and Winchester WLR except for my IMR4831 loads in 25-06 where once again I use Federal 215’s and Winchester WLRM

My Fathers rules to remember!!!!!

Using a Military case is like adding 1 ½ grains of powder

Using a Magnum Primer is like adding 1 ½ grains of powder

Reduce your load to mid loading data 3-4 grains less of max and then carefully work back up

Required disclaimer: This opinion does not constitute legal advice. Please consult an attorney licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Wear sunscreen, protective eyewear, and hearing protection. Buckle your seatbelt. Call your mother. --The Armchair Outfitter

I have a new word

It’s shiot, a new word for a misplaced shot!

if the first shot was thru the antler which is not a killing shiot!

O’MY!

Del in KS
Man be careful what you ask for, you just might get it. I can’t believe this Crusty Ol’Air Force NCO knew it and you didn’t!

I have come to conclusion David is a better shot than he lets in on! Sure like to get him out in New Mexico for a Yodel Dog hunt! Especially if I can get access to White Sands Missile Range like I did before I retired.

Sorry I should have known Clay got there first :(

You should have kept shooting Dave. At the rate of increase you were having with each cartridge, 5 or 6 shots more and you'd have been in the numbers!!! ;-)

Oops, bad editing. I blew the Chrony faceplate sticker off of it, and simply stuck it back on to the front of the Chrony.

Del in KS

LMAO

Dave if your chronograph told you the Dow Jones you would shoot yourself. Romance and rifles... I'm thinking shooting offhand is true love and a sandbag is a one night stand. Nice video.