Please Sign In

Please enter a valid username and password
  • Log in with Facebook
» Not a member? Take a moment to register
» Forgot Username or Password

Why Register?
Signing up could earn you gear (click here to learn how)! It also keeps offensive content off our site.

Snowsled Deer Slaughter Case Prompts New Legislation

Recent Comments

Categories

Recent Posts

Archives

Syndicate

Google Reader or Homepage
Add to My Yahoo!
Add to My AOL

Whitetail 365
in your Inbox

Enter your email address to get our new post everyday.

July 23, 2009

Snowsled Deer Slaughter Case Prompts New Legislation

By Dave Hurteau

From Wisconsin’s WBAY ABC 2 News:

A Waupaca County judge suspended the felony case against Nicholas Hermes, one of three men accused of running down deer with snowmobiles. . . .

Animal mistreatment charges were dropped against brothers Robby and Rory Kuenzi after two different judges ruled the men cannot be charged with both illegal hunting and animal mistreatment.

The state Department of Justice is appealing those decisions.

State lawmakers are also stepping in, angry that there's an apparent loophole in the laws.

A number of legislators are drafting bills to make it clear that intentionally killing wild animals with motor vehicles is an act of cruelty . . . .

Kaufert himself has drafted a bill making it clear wild animals do fall under the animal cruelty statutes. . . .

"The bottom line is this: I don't think there's anyone around who would say a snowmobile is a legitimate way to go deer hunting," Kaufert said.

More Whitetail Headlines

Indiana Considers Changes In Deer Regs

Vermont Eyes Suburban Bow Hunts

Youth Deer Hunt Stirs CA Controversy

Michigan To Cut Deer Check Stations

Comments (15)

Top Rated
All Comments
from micropterus wrote 4 years 38 weeks ago

I seen no need for running down deer on snowmobiles. They probably thought it was funny or something. I bet they aren't even hunters. Freaking ridiculous.

-1 for these bozos.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Bella wrote 4 years 38 weeks ago

I wouldn't want anyone to think I would condone such a behavior, but I have a cousin up in Maine (name withheld to protect the guilty) who I once heard boast about hunting coyotes with his snowmachine on the frozen river in midwinter. He said the coyotes thought they could outrun the snowmobile...
What's the Maine equivalent of redneck, well them are my people...Still I think it is far better thing to shoot 'em than run 'em down, I'd think you could bung up ones snowmachine pretty easily like that.
z
For the record my personal snowmobile hasn't run in 2 years and as there is a hole in the bucket, priority on gettin it fixed is low. I'd rather cross country ski, (Biathlon is cool) and try running down anything on skis and you will regret the experience.
I am so glad to have a reminder of glorious winter, it is soo damn muggy, I could melt like a wax candle. July is not my favorite month.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 38 weeks ago

I wonder what the Waupaca County judge would say and do if I ran his dog and cat down with my ATV!

I’m not surprised at all in the way these Judges handled this case!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from NY Survivor wrote 4 years 38 weeks ago

I would only worry about how a law like this would be worded. I once intentionally ran over an opossum that was injured. It was in the middle of the road just spinning around in a circle. I passed it once and when I came back it was still there doing the same thing, so I ran over it with my front wheel to put it out of it's misery. Would that be considered mistreating an animal?
Also what would happen if you were driving and had an animal, such as a squirrel, run out in front of you and you hit it. Would you be in trouble if you don't hit the brakes to try and keep from hitting it.
I would definitely understand if you intentionally changed directions to try and hit a healthy animal.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from seadog wrote 4 years 38 weeks ago

Maybe these idiots were having trouble understanding the meaning of "fair chase."

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from huntcamp wrote 4 years 38 weeks ago

Unfortunately this new law can be a dangerous one, like NY Survivor said. Not to mention it would probably be a law that is interpreted differently by different people. What else would the law change in the future. It is always a couple of idiots that ruin it for everyone.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from jbird wrote 4 years 38 weeks ago

Sounds like the judge and Nicholas Hermes need run down w/a snowmobile.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from needcoffee wrote 4 years 38 weeks ago

Obviously the guys that did this are plain idiots.

...but I think the court's point is that you can't be charged with BOTH illegal hunting and animal cruelty. This is a point i agree with. Hunting implies an intent to "harvest" an animal and although clean kills should be desired by all hunters, it doesn't always happen that way. But the intent should not be to cause an animal unnecessary stress or harm.......the intent should be to harvest.

Animal cruelty to me is inflicting harm just for the sake of it....ie amusement and actually wanting the animal to suffer.

Although injury or death can happen to an animal in either situation the INTENT is very different, and is actually mutually exclusive. So, I agree with the court that you cannot be charged with any type of "hunting" crime at the same time as a "animal cruelty" crime.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from huntcamp wrote 4 years 38 weeks ago

I just read in the Wisconsin State Journal today about this upcoming law. In the bill, it states that all animals hit by any type of vehicle has to be reported. Otherwise, it will not be considered an accident. So, if someone accidentally hits a rabbit and the wrong person sees it, you can be in major trouble, like jail time. That is if they go to the letter of what is written in the impending law.

This is a quote form the article in The Wisconsin State Journal.

Jefferson County District Attorney Susan Happ, whose office is handling the Fort Atkinson incident, said the reporting requirement would make it harder for people to claim such killings were accidents if they failed to notify law enforcement. The bill also covers motorboats and applies to any motor vehicle not used on a street.

"Accidents happen, but the authorities need to know about it," said state Rep. Andy Jorgensen, D-Fort Atkinson, the bill’s author. "It is disingenuous for someone to say it was an accident when they did not report the incident to law enforcement or the DNR."

.Under Jorgensen’s bill, people convicted of such killings would be subject to the penalties for animal cruelty and, therefore, could be sentenced to up to a year and a half in prison and two years of extended supervision, and face up to $10,000 in fines. Failure to report collisions would entail a $200 fine.

Do not get me wrong, intentional killing with any vehicles is terrible, but i think we have to be kind of nervous of what could happen if this law would go through and it will. Just 1 phone call with evidence of you being there and hitting a rabbit or whatever can be troublesome. Most of the time it probably would not matter, but there is always that once. Who is going to wait for the police for a rabbit or anything that does not cause damage. Of course if this law passes and everybody calls then that could be interesting.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from charlie elk wrote 4 years 38 weeks ago

Unintended consequences of bills like this scare me. In the future with a judge sympathetic to anti hunting animal rights causes could rule if you use an ATV in order to get to your hunting location you are guilty of animal cruelty. In this scenario if you kill an animal your ATV or motor boat could be determined to have been instrumental in the act of the kill. $10000.00 fine and jail for you buddy.
This was a terrible act but don't let emotions lead to future unintended consequences.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from dave the bowhunter wrote 4 years 38 weeks ago

that sounds like a phoney law to me,to have to report a animal hit by a car all the time,,here in south dakota of you did that the game and fish couldnt even keep up with all the phone calls,by people hitting thousands of pheasants all the time,and coon,,and whos to say a out of state car or truck didnt hit it,and they kept going,sounds like a waste of time to me

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from dave the bowhunter wrote 4 years 38 weeks ago

they need to make a law like south dakota has ,not to report a animal being hit,but make to it against the law to chase or harass a wild game animal,on a snomobile or a avt,or a vehicle,and guns have to be unloaded and fully cased on a snowmobile or atv

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from dogeatdog wrote 4 years 38 weeks ago

COWARDS!!! Try it during the warm months and maybe you'll do us all a favor and die,NICHOLAS!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from libertyfirst wrote 4 years 38 weeks ago

We have to be careful crafting laws that have the potential to come back and bite us in the butt. Running down deer with a snowmobile is simply wrong on a bunch of levels and we can't condone this activity and the people who committed this crime has to be punished, but to draft new laws that address this situation have to be done slowly and with the right input from the sportsman of the area, otherwise we may very well regret the results.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from FloridaHunter1226 wrote 4 years 37 weeks ago

I agree 100% with Clay... I bet the case would of gone differently if someone ran his dog/cat over with an ATV or snowmobile. I thought that in order to be a judge, you have to be smart and have a decent amount of common sense and knowledge... I guess they dont require that anymore.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Novalis wrote 4 years 24 weeks ago

Here are the appropriate addresses according to the Wisconsin Court System website http://wcca.wicourts.gov:

Rory A. Kuenzi
687 Evans Street
Waupaca, WI 54981

Robby D. Kuenzi
E5548 North Shore Road
Weyauwega, WI 54983

Nicholas D. Hermes
215 W. Alfred Street
Weyauwega, WI 54983
Here are the matching photos:

Rory A. Kuenzi
http://www.deernews.com/wp-content/uploads/ro...

Robby D. Kuenzi
http://media.jsonline.com/images/199*248/robk.jpg

Nicholas D. Hermes
http://www.wfrv.com/media/news/a/d/2/ad2ee670...

Rory’s mail has been forwarded to Dodge:
P. O. Box 661, c/o Dodge Correctional Institute, Waupun, WI 53963

Surf to
http://wcca.wicourts.gov
and enter "Kuenzi Rory" to follow the hearing dates. The next event is a pre-conference hearing on
Nov. 30 at 9 a.m.
Branch 1,
Waupaca County Court House, Waupaca, Wisconsin.

The more folks who show up, the better the impression we will make on the judge. Waupaca and Weyauwega are decent communities. The residents of these communities should not bear the weight of the malicious ignorance demonstrated by this social parasite Kuenzi.

Here's another smart guy:
Wisconsin Man Kills Deer With Boat Motor
http://muskokaoutdoors.ca/blog/2009/03/17/wis...
Philip W Borofka
2870 N Frey Ave
Marshfield, WI

+1 Good Comment? | | Report

Post a Comment

from libertyfirst wrote 4 years 38 weeks ago

We have to be careful crafting laws that have the potential to come back and bite us in the butt. Running down deer with a snowmobile is simply wrong on a bunch of levels and we can't condone this activity and the people who committed this crime has to be punished, but to draft new laws that address this situation have to be done slowly and with the right input from the sportsman of the area, otherwise we may very well regret the results.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from huntcamp wrote 4 years 38 weeks ago

I just read in the Wisconsin State Journal today about this upcoming law. In the bill, it states that all animals hit by any type of vehicle has to be reported. Otherwise, it will not be considered an accident. So, if someone accidentally hits a rabbit and the wrong person sees it, you can be in major trouble, like jail time. That is if they go to the letter of what is written in the impending law.

This is a quote form the article in The Wisconsin State Journal.

Jefferson County District Attorney Susan Happ, whose office is handling the Fort Atkinson incident, said the reporting requirement would make it harder for people to claim such killings were accidents if they failed to notify law enforcement. The bill also covers motorboats and applies to any motor vehicle not used on a street.

"Accidents happen, but the authorities need to know about it," said state Rep. Andy Jorgensen, D-Fort Atkinson, the bill’s author. "It is disingenuous for someone to say it was an accident when they did not report the incident to law enforcement or the DNR."

.Under Jorgensen’s bill, people convicted of such killings would be subject to the penalties for animal cruelty and, therefore, could be sentenced to up to a year and a half in prison and two years of extended supervision, and face up to $10,000 in fines. Failure to report collisions would entail a $200 fine.

Do not get me wrong, intentional killing with any vehicles is terrible, but i think we have to be kind of nervous of what could happen if this law would go through and it will. Just 1 phone call with evidence of you being there and hitting a rabbit or whatever can be troublesome. Most of the time it probably would not matter, but there is always that once. Who is going to wait for the police for a rabbit or anything that does not cause damage. Of course if this law passes and everybody calls then that could be interesting.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from charlie elk wrote 4 years 38 weeks ago

Unintended consequences of bills like this scare me. In the future with a judge sympathetic to anti hunting animal rights causes could rule if you use an ATV in order to get to your hunting location you are guilty of animal cruelty. In this scenario if you kill an animal your ATV or motor boat could be determined to have been instrumental in the act of the kill. $10000.00 fine and jail for you buddy.
This was a terrible act but don't let emotions lead to future unintended consequences.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from micropterus wrote 4 years 38 weeks ago

I seen no need for running down deer on snowmobiles. They probably thought it was funny or something. I bet they aren't even hunters. Freaking ridiculous.

-1 for these bozos.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Bella wrote 4 years 38 weeks ago

I wouldn't want anyone to think I would condone such a behavior, but I have a cousin up in Maine (name withheld to protect the guilty) who I once heard boast about hunting coyotes with his snowmachine on the frozen river in midwinter. He said the coyotes thought they could outrun the snowmobile...
What's the Maine equivalent of redneck, well them are my people...Still I think it is far better thing to shoot 'em than run 'em down, I'd think you could bung up ones snowmachine pretty easily like that.
z
For the record my personal snowmobile hasn't run in 2 years and as there is a hole in the bucket, priority on gettin it fixed is low. I'd rather cross country ski, (Biathlon is cool) and try running down anything on skis and you will regret the experience.
I am so glad to have a reminder of glorious winter, it is soo damn muggy, I could melt like a wax candle. July is not my favorite month.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from NY Survivor wrote 4 years 38 weeks ago

I would only worry about how a law like this would be worded. I once intentionally ran over an opossum that was injured. It was in the middle of the road just spinning around in a circle. I passed it once and when I came back it was still there doing the same thing, so I ran over it with my front wheel to put it out of it's misery. Would that be considered mistreating an animal?
Also what would happen if you were driving and had an animal, such as a squirrel, run out in front of you and you hit it. Would you be in trouble if you don't hit the brakes to try and keep from hitting it.
I would definitely understand if you intentionally changed directions to try and hit a healthy animal.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from huntcamp wrote 4 years 38 weeks ago

Unfortunately this new law can be a dangerous one, like NY Survivor said. Not to mention it would probably be a law that is interpreted differently by different people. What else would the law change in the future. It is always a couple of idiots that ruin it for everyone.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from needcoffee wrote 4 years 38 weeks ago

Obviously the guys that did this are plain idiots.

...but I think the court's point is that you can't be charged with BOTH illegal hunting and animal cruelty. This is a point i agree with. Hunting implies an intent to "harvest" an animal and although clean kills should be desired by all hunters, it doesn't always happen that way. But the intent should not be to cause an animal unnecessary stress or harm.......the intent should be to harvest.

Animal cruelty to me is inflicting harm just for the sake of it....ie amusement and actually wanting the animal to suffer.

Although injury or death can happen to an animal in either situation the INTENT is very different, and is actually mutually exclusive. So, I agree with the court that you cannot be charged with any type of "hunting" crime at the same time as a "animal cruelty" crime.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from dave the bowhunter wrote 4 years 38 weeks ago

that sounds like a phoney law to me,to have to report a animal hit by a car all the time,,here in south dakota of you did that the game and fish couldnt even keep up with all the phone calls,by people hitting thousands of pheasants all the time,and coon,,and whos to say a out of state car or truck didnt hit it,and they kept going,sounds like a waste of time to me

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 38 weeks ago

I wonder what the Waupaca County judge would say and do if I ran his dog and cat down with my ATV!

I’m not surprised at all in the way these Judges handled this case!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from seadog wrote 4 years 38 weeks ago

Maybe these idiots were having trouble understanding the meaning of "fair chase."

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from dave the bowhunter wrote 4 years 38 weeks ago

they need to make a law like south dakota has ,not to report a animal being hit,but make to it against the law to chase or harass a wild game animal,on a snomobile or a avt,or a vehicle,and guns have to be unloaded and fully cased on a snowmobile or atv

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from dogeatdog wrote 4 years 38 weeks ago

COWARDS!!! Try it during the warm months and maybe you'll do us all a favor and die,NICHOLAS!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from FloridaHunter1226 wrote 4 years 37 weeks ago

I agree 100% with Clay... I bet the case would of gone differently if someone ran his dog/cat over with an ATV or snowmobile. I thought that in order to be a judge, you have to be smart and have a decent amount of common sense and knowledge... I guess they dont require that anymore.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Novalis wrote 4 years 24 weeks ago

Here are the appropriate addresses according to the Wisconsin Court System website http://wcca.wicourts.gov:

Rory A. Kuenzi
687 Evans Street
Waupaca, WI 54981

Robby D. Kuenzi
E5548 North Shore Road
Weyauwega, WI 54983

Nicholas D. Hermes
215 W. Alfred Street
Weyauwega, WI 54983
Here are the matching photos:

Rory A. Kuenzi
http://www.deernews.com/wp-content/uploads/ro...

Robby D. Kuenzi
http://media.jsonline.com/images/199*248/robk.jpg

Nicholas D. Hermes
http://www.wfrv.com/media/news/a/d/2/ad2ee670...

Rory’s mail has been forwarded to Dodge:
P. O. Box 661, c/o Dodge Correctional Institute, Waupun, WI 53963

Surf to
http://wcca.wicourts.gov
and enter "Kuenzi Rory" to follow the hearing dates. The next event is a pre-conference hearing on
Nov. 30 at 9 a.m.
Branch 1,
Waupaca County Court House, Waupaca, Wisconsin.

The more folks who show up, the better the impression we will make on the judge. Waupaca and Weyauwega are decent communities. The residents of these communities should not bear the weight of the malicious ignorance demonstrated by this social parasite Kuenzi.

Here's another smart guy:
Wisconsin Man Kills Deer With Boat Motor
http://muskokaoutdoors.ca/blog/2009/03/17/wis...
Philip W Borofka
2870 N Frey Ave
Marshfield, WI

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from jbird wrote 4 years 38 weeks ago

Sounds like the judge and Nicholas Hermes need run down w/a snowmobile.

0 Good Comment? | | Report

Post a Comment