


July 02, 2009
Wisconsin Roadkill Custody Battle
From The Journal Times:
John J. Longo ate the deer he took from the side of the road in February 2008.
He asked a friend — a Caledonia police officer and taxidermist — to mount its head.
Now, the Court of Appeals has ordered him to surrender the trophy to the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources, because he never got a permit.
Longo’s friend told him he needed to get a permit for the deer; Longo didn’t. . . .
[Now] Judge Allan “Pat” Torhorst . . . [has] found him guilty, fined him $1 and ordered him to surrender the deer head to the DNR “upon request.”
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Comments (22)
If the deer was worth mounting it should have been worth getting the permit. No sympathy here.
How dumb! It's a roadkill! Are you supposed to let the meat rot while you drive over and get a permit? At least he used the meat and didn't let it sit on the side of the road and rot like the state would have done. They should reimburse him half the taxidermy fee for removals services.
Anywhere I've ever been, any "roadkill" taken had to have a donation permit associated with it, I agree with jay.
Rules are Rules, if you don't like them, try the appropriate channels to get them changed....or be smart enough to not get caught....
Where I'm from, the officer comes and checks out the roadkill, makes sure it's dead, then lets you take it if you want it. That's it. What you do with the animal from that point on is all okay.
I agree with Kim about wasting the meat, but there's a good reason for roadkill permits. If roadkill is exempt, poachers have an easy way out. Example: out of season, deer's head looks run over & poacher says it's roadkill. How does the wildlife officer tell if the deer was shot before it was run over? He can't without a witness or a necropsy. This one isn't easy for the rulemakers 'cause I still think it's a shame to waste the meat.
I will throw my hat in with Jay also. Most counties are pretty easy going. They will let you pick up the deer as long as you call it in. You can pick up the tag later. And again most taxidermist's won't mount the deer without a legal tag. This guy should probably just chalk it up as a lesson learned and be glad he was only fined a $1. Wisconsim is notorious for $200.00+ minimum fines for improper tagging.
Sucks, but I think that the state just wants the mount. Must have been a big one. Stupid things like this dont go to court and if they do the fine is more than $1.
all you should have to do is tell the state you hit the deer and then they put it on the record and let you take the animal.
As the prosecutor who conducted the original trial, I can tell you that I tried everything I could to be as fair as possible and not have this be a story. I agreed to allow Longo to keep the meat AND I would dismiss the ticket outright if he would surrender the deer head. He refused. Allowing people to keep deer not tagged opens up problems with poaching-and, as a prosecutor, you can't allow someone to just thumb their nose at a valid state law. All he had to do was make a call DNR an he knew it. The appeal was initiated by the DNR (not over possession of the deer head, but a judge creating an order for a law enforcement agency).
That guy was just plane dumb. Here in KS a cop is always only a few minutes away. We call them on the cell phone. They come by and give a tag and the deer is yours. Couple years ago I saw a guy get a huge 8 pointer that way.
Think about it. If the guy poachrd the deer, why would he take it to a taxidermist who he knew was a police officer? No brainer there!
I agree whole heartedly with MC34!
Anything that cuts down on poaching,and yes even the appearance of it, should be dealt with in a swift manner.
Kudos to you Mr. MC34...
In Colorado you can possess roadkill EXCEPT trophy parts. The main reason for the exception for roadkill came after Samson was killed in Estes Park.
An example of what could happen in Colorado: Hunter Joe goes hunting in Colorado and shoots a legal deer, but forgets to put his carcass tag on the animal. A wildlife officer goes to Hunter Joe's house to follow up on the ticket he was issued for failure to tag, and Hunter Joe invites the wildlife officer into his house.
Inside Hunter Joe's house is a beautiful, perfectly typical 26" wide 4x4 mule deer mounted European style. The wildlife officer, in casual conversation, asks Hunter Joe where that deer came from. Hunter Joe tells the wildlife officer it was a roadkill deer that he found on Highway 40 last fall.
Wildlife Officer than asks Hunter Joe if he has the donation certificate from the deer that should have been issued to him when he picked the deer up. The donation certificate issued by the Colorado Division of Wildlife makes Joe's possession of the animal and all parts thereof legal. Hunter Joe tells the wildlife officer that he didn't get a permit for the deer because it was late at night and he was on his way home when he picked it up.
Reasonable suspicion is now raised and the investigation continues...
Long of the short, Hunter Joe could be facing a ticket that could cost anywhere from $700 to approximately $10,000.
It could all be prevented with a simple phone call to the State Patrol, who will in-turn get a wildlife officer to the scene, and we will gladly give anybody who wants the roadkill a permit for it.
MAKE THE PHONE CALL AND DON"T COMPLAIN ABOUT IT!!!!!
rules: follow them, they are there for a purpose. If we ignore "forgetting' to tag game then Hunter Joe will "forget" to tag his deer on opening day and be right back in the woods the next day.
Bottom line: a deer, or any game, harvested, picked up or whatever, in violation of the law is poached.
MC34 pretty much summed it up. A deer head must be tagged in one form or another.
the rules on this in SD are a little overkill IMO. any buck that is considered a "trophy" cannot be kept by anyone because they assume it was hit intentionally because of it's size. the same rule goes for "picked up" deer that you could find shed hunting, etc., because it is the state's opinion that you cannot prove you didn't poach it....
get the pa game commision on this case, they would just get mad and let a couple thousand cyotes go to kill all the deer
I think it is pretty dumb for the state to require you to get a free permit to keep a road kill deer. But a law is a law and if the guy didn't like it then he should either not kept the deer or given it back when asked. Although I think that in this case the DNR is just trying to make a point that people should follow the rules...even the dumb ones.
Is it that hard to have a little common sense? I agree he should have been smart enough to get a tag, but it is a deer that is roadkill. When did it become so hard for a person to look at a case and use their head? If he was a poacher he wouldn't have messed around with the meat he would have sawed the horns and left the body. I think that the state just wants the horns because they are a trophy. If it was a bambi they wouldn't have done anything. what a joke.
Guy should of just listened to his friend and gotten a tag... but I mean this deffnitely is not too bad. It was roadkill and would have gone to waste anyways but you gotta follow the rules. I wonder how he got caught though... or why they would want to confiscate his trophy? What use would they have for it... maybe they just wanted a nice, free deer mount for their office.
Volume One posted a short blog about the incident too, check it out on their site here:
http://volumeone.org/blogs/The_Daily_Shakedown/post/826/Wisconsin_wants_...
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Where I'm from, the officer comes and checks out the roadkill, makes sure it's dead, then lets you take it if you want it. That's it. What you do with the animal from that point on is all okay.
How dumb! It's a roadkill! Are you supposed to let the meat rot while you drive over and get a permit? At least he used the meat and didn't let it sit on the side of the road and rot like the state would have done. They should reimburse him half the taxidermy fee for removals services.
Rules are Rules, if you don't like them, try the appropriate channels to get them changed....or be smart enough to not get caught....
I agree with Kim about wasting the meat, but there's a good reason for roadkill permits. If roadkill is exempt, poachers have an easy way out. Example: out of season, deer's head looks run over & poacher says it's roadkill. How does the wildlife officer tell if the deer was shot before it was run over? He can't without a witness or a necropsy. This one isn't easy for the rulemakers 'cause I still think it's a shame to waste the meat.
Sucks, but I think that the state just wants the mount. Must have been a big one. Stupid things like this dont go to court and if they do the fine is more than $1.
Think about it. If the guy poachrd the deer, why would he take it to a taxidermist who he knew was a police officer? No brainer there!
As the prosecutor who conducted the original trial, I can tell you that I tried everything I could to be as fair as possible and not have this be a story. I agreed to allow Longo to keep the meat AND I would dismiss the ticket outright if he would surrender the deer head. He refused. Allowing people to keep deer not tagged opens up problems with poaching-and, as a prosecutor, you can't allow someone to just thumb their nose at a valid state law. All he had to do was make a call DNR an he knew it. The appeal was initiated by the DNR (not over possession of the deer head, but a judge creating an order for a law enforcement agency).
I agree whole heartedly with MC34!
Anything that cuts down on poaching,and yes even the appearance of it, should be dealt with in a swift manner.
Kudos to you Mr. MC34...
the rules on this in SD are a little overkill IMO. any buck that is considered a "trophy" cannot be kept by anyone because they assume it was hit intentionally because of it's size. the same rule goes for "picked up" deer that you could find shed hunting, etc., because it is the state's opinion that you cannot prove you didn't poach it....
I think it is pretty dumb for the state to require you to get a free permit to keep a road kill deer. But a law is a law and if the guy didn't like it then he should either not kept the deer or given it back when asked. Although I think that in this case the DNR is just trying to make a point that people should follow the rules...even the dumb ones.
Volume One posted a short blog about the incident too, check it out on their site here:
http://volumeone.org/blogs/The_Daily_Shakedown/post/826/Wisconsin_wants_...
Anywhere I've ever been, any "roadkill" taken had to have a donation permit associated with it, I agree with jay.
I will throw my hat in with Jay also. Most counties are pretty easy going. They will let you pick up the deer as long as you call it in. You can pick up the tag later. And again most taxidermist's won't mount the deer without a legal tag. This guy should probably just chalk it up as a lesson learned and be glad he was only fined a $1. Wisconsim is notorious for $200.00+ minimum fines for improper tagging.
all you should have to do is tell the state you hit the deer and then they put it on the record and let you take the animal.
In Colorado you can possess roadkill EXCEPT trophy parts. The main reason for the exception for roadkill came after Samson was killed in Estes Park.
An example of what could happen in Colorado: Hunter Joe goes hunting in Colorado and shoots a legal deer, but forgets to put his carcass tag on the animal. A wildlife officer goes to Hunter Joe's house to follow up on the ticket he was issued for failure to tag, and Hunter Joe invites the wildlife officer into his house.
Inside Hunter Joe's house is a beautiful, perfectly typical 26" wide 4x4 mule deer mounted European style. The wildlife officer, in casual conversation, asks Hunter Joe where that deer came from. Hunter Joe tells the wildlife officer it was a roadkill deer that he found on Highway 40 last fall.
Wildlife Officer than asks Hunter Joe if he has the donation certificate from the deer that should have been issued to him when he picked the deer up. The donation certificate issued by the Colorado Division of Wildlife makes Joe's possession of the animal and all parts thereof legal. Hunter Joe tells the wildlife officer that he didn't get a permit for the deer because it was late at night and he was on his way home when he picked it up.
Reasonable suspicion is now raised and the investigation continues...
Long of the short, Hunter Joe could be facing a ticket that could cost anywhere from $700 to approximately $10,000.
It could all be prevented with a simple phone call to the State Patrol, who will in-turn get a wildlife officer to the scene, and we will gladly give anybody who wants the roadkill a permit for it.
MAKE THE PHONE CALL AND DON"T COMPLAIN ABOUT IT!!!!!
rules: follow them, they are there for a purpose. If we ignore "forgetting' to tag game then Hunter Joe will "forget" to tag his deer on opening day and be right back in the woods the next day.
Bottom line: a deer, or any game, harvested, picked up or whatever, in violation of the law is poached.
MC34 pretty much summed it up. A deer head must be tagged in one form or another.
get the pa game commision on this case, they would just get mad and let a couple thousand cyotes go to kill all the deer
Is it that hard to have a little common sense? I agree he should have been smart enough to get a tag, but it is a deer that is roadkill. When did it become so hard for a person to look at a case and use their head? If he was a poacher he wouldn't have messed around with the meat he would have sawed the horns and left the body. I think that the state just wants the horns because they are a trophy. If it was a bambi they wouldn't have done anything. what a joke.
Guy should of just listened to his friend and gotten a tag... but I mean this deffnitely is not too bad. It was roadkill and would have gone to waste anyways but you gotta follow the rules. I wonder how he got caught though... or why they would want to confiscate his trophy? What use would they have for it... maybe they just wanted a nice, free deer mount for their office.
That guy was just plane dumb. Here in KS a cop is always only a few minutes away. We call them on the cell phone. They come by and give a tag and the deer is yours. Couple years ago I saw a guy get a huge 8 pointer that way.
If the deer was worth mounting it should have been worth getting the permit. No sympathy here.
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