IT's not hunting. It's that simple end of disscusion.

Nate

I typically hunt for meat, don't have a collection of antlers on the wall or anything. If I could extend my range with better shooting I would. I understand fair chase and all but if your intent is to put meat in the freezer being able to extend your range really helps. If you want to low crawl for a mile that's fine but it's not for me.

long range hunting is ok----BUT----- KNOW YOUR GUN AND AMNO---- AND PRATICE EVER CHANCE YOU GET. the person that uses one box of amno for 3 or 4 yrs shouldn't do it.. why wound game that you'll probably never find. If you want to long range hunt and don't do a lot of shooting --leave the long range stuff shooting at coyotes.

I think if it's done right, big enough weapon, practice, knowledge of bullet drop and wind effect etc it can be an art form. BUT I also have my reservations about the bad apples that may attempt this without proper equipment, knowledge and practice.

What I think is, that if the shooter can hit his target around 98% of the time, then have at it. It becomes unethical when a hunter starts shooting at animals farther then his effective range. My personal limit is 200yds...which doesn't seem much. But I just don't feel comfortable shooting anything further. I'll admit, I do flinch when I shoot, so long shots are out of the question. I give props to people who can hit their target close to 100% of the time at 500yds.

Where is the challenge in such a long shot? There is none, outside of the making the shot aspect. It's just long range target shooting. At animals. Someone that has never hunted but has practice at making 1000 yard shots could easily become a "hunter", more like a long range shooter of animals. Give an experienced shooting instructor 2 weeks with any idiot from urban New Jersey, and he could do this easily. He would have a trophy bull for every tag he drew, it's just that easy when you're that far away.

It's called fair chase. Fair chase is about giving the animal something resembling a chance at survival. It's about making it a challenge. Fair chase and 800-1000 yard (and even shorter) shots do not fit together whatsoever.

This isn't the best example, but it's the best I can think of -

How would you like it if you were playing paintball and everything was fun and great until suddenly you were getting hit out of the blue and losing every time. There is no sign of anyone nearby. You just get shot and you're out. Turns out there is a guy that has showed up with a marker that's able to make hits from 500 yards away. This guy is just in some tree picking people off without them ever having a clue that he is there, not to mention having no chance of ever detecting him. Where is the sport in that? There is none.

If you are starving to death and an 800 yard shot is all you have, go ahead. But you aren't starving to death. You are hunting for sport, as well as meat, but it isn't urgent that you get that meat. So do yourself, the hunting community, and the game a favor, and throw in some challenge to your hunting. Try bowhunting.

I'm all for rifle hunting, I do it, but I'm not impressed by guys that get all their game with 300-400 yard shots every time. You haven't proven yourself as a real hunter until you can consistently get close and kill game. Hold yourself to the standards of the original North American hunters. Native Americans with bows. The closer you can get to their skills, the better. I'm not saying you have to be a bowhunter to be legit. I'm saying that if you can't get within 300 yards, you're not.

i think it is sad that hunting is becoming so gizmo oriented.lazer range finders, sent lock suits, and on and on . its laughable, give me your money and i will make you a better hunter with this fancy do dad . they are all for the most part in my eyes a LAZY mans crutch . true wood craft can not be bought it must be learned . you want to be a better hunter it is simple slow down ,and have patients. instead of running through the woods ignoring every thing around you, in hopes that the new toy you just got is going to bring your quarry to you on a string. the man who can shoot a small buck at twenty yards, and remain unnoticed is a much better hunter . than one that can hit a larger buck at 800 yds . shooting at that distance makes you a good shot not a good hunter and one i would have little respect for .

Just because a bullet may travel 3 or more miles doesn't mean we should shoot that far. The majority of hunters including myself are not qualified to take a million yard shot. My absolute farthest range is 300 and rarely will I ever take that shot unless on a range. Even at that range a lot can happen before the bullet gets to its target. Deer or whatever can take a half step and its guts no glory. Just too much chance just to wound and not kill at least kill quickly. At a million yards, it probably isn't that easy to find a drop of blood if it doesn't bleed heavily. Hard enough at a couple hundred yards. Some deer go down right away and some deer do not. At those ranges it becomes more about the person than the game. When hunting in my opinion it should be about the game animal not your shooting ego. Leave that stuff on th range. Paper targets do not feel pain and thsy will not suffer if a shot is not perfect. Be a hunter get as close as you can, do not be in a rush, enjoy the stalk. Or might as well just stay in your car and drive until you see a game animal and get out and shoot and drive and peick it up. Just think how far 500 yards and up really is, think of the wind, thermals, elevation, and everything else that would have to go into that kind of shot. It takes professional snipers about 45 minutes to absolutely feel comfortable at 1000 yards, only know that because watched a doumentery on actual army snipers. They also work in pairs so the shooter only has to concentrate on the shot nothing else. Also when shootingthat far, most of us, I know I don't carry the right shooting rest around the woods. Get up close to the game. Whether bow or gun. Just because you might be able to and I emphasize might, doesn't mean you should. The best shots in the world have trouble with those ranges and i highly doubt most of us fit that category. I apologize for the people that do.

Huntcamp, if people put the time in and practice UNDER FIELD CONDITIONS do you think they can make these shots ethically if they practice and aquire the proper equipment? THis morning actually i shot a 5 shot 5 inch group at 800 yards shooting up a canyon off a bipod and my hunting pack as a rear support, I dont do any shooting off benches. I have never taken a game animal farther than 625 yards but i practice out past 1000 yards regularily, are they acceptable under IDEAL conditions and witht the right equipment and right person behind he gun according to you?

You are willing to shoot ethically at a deer 800 yard with a 5 inch group? Keep practicing. Great shooting though. i am sorry what are you trying to prove with these super long shots at animals? You sound like an awesome shot, but I think you need better than 5 inch for animals. 5 inches is big on animals. Who cares about misses, it is the injured. Most of us have taken questionable shots in our day, me included. Mine was freehand 300 yards at whitetail as it was running. Hit it through the heart, but that does not excuse the poor decision to shoot. I was 15 years old at the time. I have shot freehand at 300 yards and hit 12 shots in a row on a paper plate size metal gong, doesn't mean I should shoot at deer like that. Also hit a golf ball freehand at 100. Shooting for ego should be left at the range. Used to always set up a picture of a deer on a piece of plywood that was attached to a cable and shoot at it as it was moving down the cable. And the answer in my opinion is no 1000 yard shots should never be made, but go ahead nothing stopping you. It is just not my way of hunting, just would much rather be closer to the game for many reasons, actually feel like I am hunting is the main reason. Most of my shots now are under 50 yards bow and or gun (30 yards for bow, but practice up to 80). i hunt funnels not fields for the most part.

Thanks for your response Huntcamp, I respect your reasoning and you make some good points. You also aren't afraid of admitting taking am iffy shot, I respect you for that. Thanks for your input. But I have to say I think 5 inches is better or equal to what a lot of guys get at 300 yards and I think it is good enough to take a shot at a deer at that range. Not saying I would take a shot like that though. I think people should get as close as they can before they shoot, but i also feel shots at longer ranges can be taken ethically. I do not approve of the people that go hunting looking for an 800 yard shot to brag about it. I only think you should take a long shot if it is the only choice you have(yes i recognize the option of just not shooting as well). I practice regularily at long range so if i make a bad shot at say 300 yards and runs to 600, there is nothing to loose then, i can make that shot and end the chase right there.

I agree with s-kfry. If you're meathunting, It's not unethical if you are a capable shooter at that range. It's no more or less ethical than slaughtering a cow or pig for table-fare. If you're going to brag that you were able to kill a bick buck at that range, shows you're a good shot, not a good hunter. The two do not go hand-in-hand.

Hey everyone, living on the flat prairie I have seen time and time again people trying their skills at some long range animal shots. Based on what I have seen in my 20 some years of hunting the average shot is below 200 yards. Anything up to around 500 yards your degree of accuracy drops about 15% per 100 yards. That is 45% drop in accuracy at around 500 yards. Anything beyond that is a drop of about 20% in accuracy. I am not a newby to this believe me and I have seen some very impressive shots, but those were based on what I have seen 50% luck and 50% skill. Those numbers above are for the average hunter based on about 60 or 70 some hunters that I have been with throughout the years. Ethical hunting is important and should be acted on every time you step into that field or forest, you yourself should know what you are capable of doing out there, and we are foolish to push those boundaries. Based on the numbers above I would not want someone taking a shot at me at over 700 yards let alone 800 to a thousand. People who make 1000 yard shots have a place in society but the fields and forests are not the place. To each their own, jsut dont "Try it" fo rthe sake of seeing if you can do it, the animal you are hunting deserves better than that. Thanks Everyone, Get Hunt'n!!

15 x 5 = 75

I've always shot deer(the only big game I regularly hunt)at very close range. I've never shot one at over 100 yards. I usually hunt deer with a old 30-30. Does that give me the upper hand in the ethics department over the guy who can shoot accurately at extended range? If someone is capable, practices regularly and uses a powerful rifle why isn't his way of hunting just as acceptable as mine is? One of my dear friends, and one of the finest hunters and shots I personally know, shoots all the time at 350-500 yards and I'll tell you that the meat pole out to the side of his house has some excellent bucks hanging there. He is a ethical, caring and practical hunter. I don't believe that his method or mine is so far apart that we should ever criticize each other.

WA Mtnhunter I bet your right that half the people couldnt make that shot. But it really has no relavance to long range hunting. In a hunitg situation, you are not limited on if you can use a bipod or rangefinder, so whay are you bringing this up? Only an idiot would try and offhand shot at an animal at 500 yards. You utilize a bidod to make yourself stable, you dont just throw your rifle up and shoot. Also you say no rangefinder, well you said the truck is at 500 yards, why do i need a rangefinder if you told me how far it is? In the field if you dont know how far away an animal is you have no business as to shooting at it. Your guessing at the range which means your guessing on your dope and game animals deserve better than that. Long range hunting can be done ethically I feel. But you have to approach it in the right way. You must have the right equipment (which includes both a rangefinder and bipod), you must have th skill's to utilize your equipment, you must know the limits of yourself and your equipment and not exceed them, you must have a stable shooting platform (preferable utilizing that bipod of yours), and you must have proper shooting conditions(meaning good light, reasonable wind(which you can read and know how to copensat for))If you have these things I think you can make those longer shots, on the range and in the field ethically.

OK Thanks for your reasoning cooner. Its obvious from your photo that your not equipped for long range, thats fine, looks like a ruger No. 1 with a big ol' flatnose bullet. Great setup for whitetails. I have no problem with your method of hunting, it looks like you are very skilled at what you do and are very successful. I do shoot long range and use it hunting. But I have taken more elk under 200 yards than over. I try to get close but some places longer shots are what is needed to get it done, and so far all shots past 200 yards have been one shot kills. I also hunt with a bow, I took a turkey this year at 12 yards with one shot. I don't like people who shoot game at long range to brag about it. For me, its just one more tool in my bag. Say what you want about it, but I hunt my way, you hunt yours. Thanks for your feedback.

How do you all define long range? I would define it as any time you have to compensate for bullet drop and/or wind drift. Which I think starts at about 300 yards with todays cartriges.

I would say there is no real sportsmanship involved in this type of hunting, the game that you are shooting most likely can't see you, smell you, or have any indication that it has a gun pointed at it. That ruins hunting in my opinion, hunting is meant to be fun, not be like war, we are not shooting terrorists here, are we?

Also having a fast cartrige like a 7mm mag., .270WSM, or .300 Win. Mag., Doesn't mean your set up for long range.... Magnums are one of the biggest problems with people when It comes to long range I feel. Because people have a big cartrige, they think they can take longer shots, when they haven't takent the time to properly prepare for them. Honestly I don't think you gain much with a .300 win. mag over a .30-06, except more recoil and a bigger ego...

When I was long range shooting in ND, I kept my shooting in the 350ish range that I felt comfortable with as a reasonable hunting distance for my needs with the 7mm Rem mag-mostly shooting my handloads.
Big O does bring up a very good point about the .300 mag for sniper work. Althought when I was in active service as the Flight "secondary" sniper I trained with the .308win/700Rem model pretty much standard design with an after market cheek piece attachment. I believe 168gr target grade bullets? They were handloaded for us by the armory staff.

Just to add to whats above, the Highest published MV for the .300 and a 180gr bullet was 3160fps, this is what I used for the comparison.

Ok Huntcamp, that was my point, there is no point to shoot at 800 yards. So a .300 over an '06 is not that big of an advantage, Unless you shoot past that. it is some i admit though. But you misread, at 800 yards the .300 only has 293 Ft/lbs more energy over the '06, not 293fps, big difference. I have never shot an animal at 800 yards, and honestly never plan to, but I know thats my equipments limit. Your right, long range shooting is a two man job, but at 500 yards you can usually spot your own hits. As for holding over your target, you don't. Thats a horrible method of compensation, those are the idiots who don't know what the hell they're doing. You dial your scope, for both windage and elevation, and put your crosshairs where you want to hit. Snipers don't hold over, they dial their.THIS IS WHERE ALL THE PRACTICE COMES IN GUYS!! get out there, check your dope and learn how to read the wind and compensate for it!! If you do =that you can make longer shots, not saying you have to or should shoot at 800 yards but hits at 400-600 yards will be attainable with consistancy!!! And unless factory ammo is shooting half min and has an ES under 20fps, dont use it, thats just my opinion on ammo though, shoot whatever you want...

I personally think it is unethical. Its not 'hunting' at that point. Its shooting an elk at 1000 yds. Hunting involves stalking, sneaking, being quiet for hours, etc. Plus, The animal has no chance. It cant see,smell or hear you. I just think the animal should have some kind of chance. The only time I think you should take a shot from that far is if you have the skill and if its a world record animal AND if your starving and cant get closer.

Sorry I am a little late on this post, I just came across it. Honestly it does not come down to whether it is hunting or not. It is simply that it is unethical. I do not care how good of a shooter you are, there is no one in the world that can shoot a rifle, freehanded at a distance over 200 yds. With a rest or sticks anything over 400 yds is a joke. It becomes a guessing game on wind, angle,air temp, air pressure. Also even if you sight the gun in shoot 400 yds, at 500 that bullet is dropping terribly. For example a standard .300 win mag is around 24 inches low at 400 yards if sighted dead in at 200 yds. However at 500 yds that bullet is somewhere around 50 inches or two feet low. So what defines 2 feet on a elk or deer. Its a guess so a miss or wounded animal is much more likely than a kill shot regardless so the shooters abilities.

long range takes a lot of talent and practice

My long range shooting stops at 400 yards with a rock solid rest. At my age with tri-focals and not so steady nerves 400 yards is my limit. I have several rifles that are more than capable but the shooter behind them is not. I remember an old Clint Eastwood saying "You have to know your limitations". The thing that I think about is can I do it every time, time after time, after time, after time. If the answer is no than the range is too far. I have seen the long shots on TV, but I wonder how many misses aren't shown, I'm sure there are some.

I even refrained from shooting at pararie dogs in Montana with my 22-250 which I know is capable of 500+. I just couldn't be sure and I didn't want to cripple one of those little devils either. You are right about dragging up and down far ridges. Those days are over for me. I only hunt now where I can get to the kill with my 4-wheeler.