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The .338 for Deer, and Other Bad Craziness

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February 27, 2008

The .338 for Deer, and Other Bad Craziness

By David E. Petzal and Phil Bourjaily

A number of you on the previous post asked what was I doing with a .338 in the Maine whitetail woods when I have been yowling the praises of the 6.5 Swede and the 7mm/08. Two reasons: First, I was looking for an excuse to use the .338, which had never been away from home. Second, as I said, tracking in Maine is very difficult when there's no snow on the ground. The last whitetail I killed up there moved less than 75 yards from where it was hit, but it took myself and another, much more skilled, tracker a couple of hours to find it, crawling on our hands and knees. What the .338 gives you over smaller cartridges is more internal damage and a big enough exit hole on the far side that you get a decent blood trail instead of a drop every 12.2 yards.

As for killing power, I direct your attention to the comments of Mr. Dick McPlenty on the previous blog, whose command of the facts and logic are nothing less than sublime. He is correct that there is little, if any, difference in killing power (provided the bullet goes where it should) between cartridges, and that strength of modern bullets has pretty much blurred whatever difference they may have. (I knew of an African PH who used a 7x57 Mauser as his backup rifle. He claimed he got the same penetration as he did with a .375 H&H, and that he could get off four aimed shots in the time it took to get off two with the .375.)

One of the worst cases of losing a game animal I ever saw happened in New Mexico in 1977. A hunter I ran across had flung 19 .338 rounds at an elk that probably would have made B and C, and hit it at least several times. He started shooting at around 400 yards when the bull was out in the open, but the animal made it into the timber and was never found.

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

I don't see any mention of the 300 Win Mg a ot not. Has the 338 replaced it. If i could handle the recoil of the 300 I would have one in a jif to take West. But that gun turns me around. I do believe the 300 to be a better all around one gun owner. But hunters attitudes and desires change as the weather. No teling what will be the next must have one of. Me the 06 is all I need for my hunting. As for Wolves, I will in a minute shot one if seen and just continue to walk.May not be 100% ethica, but neithernis the wolf. I believe we need to take a stand on them and eliminate as many as possible. If YNP has a kill ratio as stated and teh Elk herd is down 70, someone better take ntice and start shoting some. I will be glad to help out. Hey, what ever became of the deal to hire sharp-shooters to kill X#Elk in the Rocky Mtn National park, rather than let the Hunters in there and they pay to hunt. If we hire sharp shooters at l/2 Million $ you know who's gonna pay.I wold love to hunt near Estes Park in C0 as there are many town Elk there. The town frowns on any suggestion of a hunt, as the Elk are a grea tourist atraction, been there and there is many Elk at dawn and dusk. they love the golf courses and the shrubs at the homes in town.

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from Mike Reeder wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

Agree with every one who loves the Remington Mt. Rifle. When it first came out I was immediately smitten and couldn't wait to get my hands on one. I couldn't really afford it at the time but couldn't stand to do with out it. Once I got mine, I could never imagine letting it go. Last count I had something like 21 rifles and shotguns, but that old .270 Mt. Rifle is still my boon companion. I never did one thing to tune it, but it will shoot an honest minute of angle from the bench and seems to digest almost anything you feed it. In all the time I've had it it's never changed zero on me, and I've hunted with it in rain, snow, and blistering heat from Wyoming to the Mexican border. It's a pleasure to carry and flies to your shoulder like a good quail gun. Just a great, great factory rifle.

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

To some degree the hands of the western wolf states are tied by the feds. To see the changes coming go to the Wyoming Fish and Game web site. Looks like there will be legal killing in the forseeable future. We used to count 50-70 calves in a herd of 100 elk cows but since the reintroduction of the wonderful wolf we see 10-30 calves with the same number of mothers. The Fish and Game people tell you what they are programed to say to keep their jobs and feed their families. Insofar as camping in griz country we take extra precautions expecially when we leave camp (food 100 yards from camp up a pole 10 feet off the ground 4 feet out from the tree, same for horse feed and snicker bars, etc), leave both ends of the tent open so old griz will wonder on through, and hobble and bell the horses left in camp so they can move if they have to. But like I said things are hopefully going to change soon since the wolf was delisted and maybe there even will be a griz season again in the somewhat distant future. Of course they will not legally allow enough of either species to be eradicated to really benefit the game animals, just enough to make us hunters feel better.

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

And who said P---y did not stink? Believe the Bears like as well as us. I cannot even think anyone could tame a Griz or become friends with them. That Idiot lived much longer than normal by playing hid-seak with the big Griz's. Belive I will stick to Elk/Mlies/Lopes and hope no Griz shows up for a feast. Some say that the Griz when he hears a shot, knows there's a free meal and he goes to the kill immediately.When I hunt the Rockies, we field dress immediately, then get the Hell out of Dodge to skinning house.If hunt the same general area the next couple days, have someone keep their eyes trained on the trails to the gut piles. I wanted a Griz sure would be a great place to place a stand about 30 ft up.But as a rule we don;t hunt the same areas but about every 4 days. Good hunting guys. Shoot-um-straight

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from Del in KS wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

W.A.Mtnhunter,She probably was, just seemed like such a waste. Now that you mention it. That bear was a real p---y eater.LMAO

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

I think both were kinda crazy. When you mess with fire you gonna get burned. Wild animals are just that WILD. You cannot train one to be a PET forever. If teh Anti's want to protect them, by all means, lets take them to the right place and turn them loose with no weapon. These Anti's need a job or a hobby and leave the hunters and mother Nature to worry about the wildlife. I don;t know what I would do if saw a Griz while hunting. I might shoot if had a good shot and right AMMO, but would prefer to have a BAck-up guy with enough firepower to take the Griz out. We have allowed humans to build in wildlife home range and they gonna give even more problems as they get use to people next door. Out in the Rockies, I think they should not allow people to build in wildlife feeding aeas. I read some place, that some states require at least 25 acres to build a home???? We've done a great job of displacing the wildlife. But someway the W-tail keeps growing in #'s. I try to cull our herds here at home, but they continue to grow or move in my feed plots. Good hunting guys. Shoot-um-straight and often.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

DelWhat makes you think that she was not as big an idiot as he was?

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

In Griz country, hikers and campers are advised to wear bells to warn grizzly bears of their approach. When you find bear scat, the best way to tell if it was a black bear or a grizzly bear is to look for the little bells.

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Clay, I agree, hunter should have let the bear alone for a few minutes, then killed it. Like my friends out west. They say the Wildlife guys don;t have any idea of # of Wolves and Griz's about, but way to many. In area I hunt, the animals kill off about 70% of new born. They have tried to get the game dept to allow a hunt for them but no luck. So these Ranchers protect their property and game the best they can. Shoot them both and leave be. Let the Coyotes and Foxes and etc.a feast. I might shoot a Wolf, but as i staed, I would want a back up with a cannon if shot a Griz. I understand from F&S that in upper Yellowstone that the two animals have reduced the Elk herd by 70% and no #'s available on the Lopes. I don;t think I would like to camp out in a tent in that area I hunt. Let Mother Nature handle the situation, its done ok till man decided to help out, or screw up. Maybe i will be lucky and see a Wolf this fall, and if one of my friends who owns the property is with me, can shoot a Griz.Here at Home, we do help Mother Nature with the Foxes and Coyotes, as they have done away with small game and birds. I use to see 2-3 Coveys of birds in a day.Now see none and very seldom see a rabbit, Plus Darm Hawks kill all the squirrels. That I plan to help eliminate here at home. Maybe some of us hunters need to go to or near Yellowstone and help reduce the problems.It's time WY, Montana and Utah wake up and solve this problem beforeanother man/girl ae eaten. But, that guy was a nut, too bad he did not understand wildlife enough to know you cannot make a house pet out of such animals. A Dog and cat is trouble enough, but they stay outside as well, helps kill undesireables and let me know when something is near the house so I can get my 357 quickly.I may carry some 220 gr ammo this trip, just in case its needed. Have a good week-in.O, better still, let the Anti's camp out in upper Yellowstone or Southern Montana, with no weapon but a tin can to rattle at the game.

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from Del in KS wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Too bad ol' Tim Treadwell (or was it Treadway) didn't have a hunter nearby when that brownie killed and ate he and the girlfriend. Oh well, what better way to be one with nature than by becoming a bear turd. Mother nature has a way of taking care of idiots. Too bad the girl was there.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Rocky Mtn HunterYou remind me of a story I was told by a Wildlife Biologist in Alaska. He was watching a Brown Bear hunter stalking a really nice size bear and noticed that there was a person running between him and the bear. It was one of those Green Peace guys and yeas the bear charged and the hunter dropped the bear just a few feet from him. Personally I agreed with the Biologist that the Hunter shot too soon!Now about California closing Cougar Hunting, California Joggers, YUM! YUM!

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Jim in Mo: I went to the webb site you posted and I agree with you. That is a bunch of bull. They cannot make me believe that Wolves will not kill Lopes and go after larger game. No doubt, the # of Wolves in YNP has increased and the Elk decreased due to elk killings by Wolves. I plan to hunt Montana this fall and if I see a wolf and can kill him I will. It's about time us hunters protect the game we enjoy hunting, and Wolves we don;t need. The Coyotes and Foxes will take care of the old and sick animals, we don;t need the Wolves. The same applies to the Griz Bear, too many. I doubt I would shoot a Griz unless had a back=up shooter, as never bear hunted and don;t know where to shhot other than between the eyes to shoot one. I hunt with folks in MT and they say many Bears and some Wolves been seen in areas we hunt. THey carry a 375 in their trucks all time plus a Encore in 300 win mag. I never ask if they killed any, as not my business. But have been told to shoot either I saw if I wanted to, or call them. Just hopefully see a nice Elk and good Mtn Mulie at shotable range and I will be happy, yep, the 30-06 /25-06/and the new MArlin 270 will go. I kinda figure this will be my last Rocky Mtn hunt as at 73 and poor health, it gets more difficult each time I go to get up early, hunt hard all day and little sleep. AS when I hunt, I hunt every second I;m in the woods. No nap time when hunting unless got a companion. I carry quality Nikon equiptment and glass a lot, amazing what you can see at l-2 miles away with good Bincs., Take care, shoot un-straight & often

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Firearms to me are like cloths, I don;t wear the same pants every day.Same with hunting. I use a different firearm for the game I hunt and the ammo that shoots best from that gun. Don;t skimp on ammo, buy the best available to hunt. Cheaper ammo is ok for pratice, but not on a $5K hunt. Can bet your last dollar that I will not buy Rem Core-lokts at Wal-marts for a Rocky Mtn hunt.Has been told to me by Remington, that they and I;m sure other mfgers as well, make different firearms and ammo for Walm-mart,as Wal-maart dictates the price they will pay. The ADL you see at Wal-marts now, is only available at Wal-marts, not your local dealer. Look at one and you will see that you don;t want one at any price.Some folks collect different items, guns I collect, never had too many and never will. But when hunting time comes,I do have special firearms for that hunt and ammo to match. Uze enough firepower, rather it be more than necessary than less. Have you ever tracked a W-tail all day???. When I spend hard earned $$$ for A Rocky Mtn Hunt, I want enough gun and ammo to drop that animal on the spot or close by. Yep, I use a 30-06 and a 25-06. As the two will do the job I want them to do if I do my part. As for a 338, it may be the better firearm, don;t know, but my 06 will kill a animal in its tracts at 345 yds using l80 gr Scrico's and the 25-06 will kill w-tails/mulie at 325 using Wincheser Ballastic in ll7 grs.If you pratice enough, you will know the hold over needed at different ranges, that's where a Rangefinder come into play. Those mtns and valleys and even the rolling plains out west will fool you, so you best range the game first.My first hunt for Lopes in 1999, I though the range was about l75 yds, so I held midway, fired and the bullet hit the dirt 5 ft in front of the animal, distance turned out to be 325 yds.Needless to say, a Rangefinder was bought as soon as I got home. And, a 30-06 with l80 gr Scricco;s will kill to 400 yds if you hold right. My deer last year at 345 yds, the bullet went fron left last rib to come out the right front shoulder, went completely thru the 220 lb deer. My first Elk was killed at l65 yards with a l65 gr Extended range bullet that Rem once made. I;m not a ammo sales person, but the Rem Bonded Scricco;s in l80 grs are great, they fly flat and far and do enough damage when they go thru that the game will fall if you place the shot correct. I hope to find out again come fall in KY or MT. The 25-06 works well here at home, but I got one of the new Marlin's in 270 on order, just another gun I want to try. A 300 Win _mag I would own if I was able to handle the recoil, but at l28 lbs ( down from l80 due to sickness) the 30-06 with wt in butt stock @near 10 lbs, I can handle like a 223 or 243. Plus, I TRUST the firearm, Ammo, and my ability with it. And, that's what it's all about. Learn your firearm and the ammo you use, if you don;t have faith in it, better buy another gun or pratice more. Shoot-um-straight and often. The old Gunslinger down south

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago
from Jim in Mo. wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Something went wrong

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Western big game hunters,Is this really good news? I've got my doubts.http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080303/ap_on_sc/pronghorn_wolves;_ylt=Alisggb6yT0jCmUAMaUJUQSs0NUE

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from sarg wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Way to go RockyMtnHunter , Let me know in May how it goes, we'll look at some motels around Pikeville,or Prestonsburg.. Depend which zone you drae.

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Sarg: After I saw the new Remington 770 and 715 which replaced the 710 I was sick. I called Remington and gave them my 2 cens worth ( what good , other than to me). They informed me that the ADL is yet available , but only to Walnart stores. So the ADL you saw is a hunk of junk compared to the older ADL's. In my opinion, this new MArlin XL7 will eat Rem. alive on cheaper priced firearms. If Rem. starts mfgering the BDL and CDL as they did the 770 and ADL for Walmart;s then our other US mfgers will make great enrows in sales. The New Savages are much improved in looks. I always thought they had quality for the $$ now they got the quality and the beauty. They got one model that is Walnut and looks like the Rem 700 BDL at about 30% less than the BDL. I do have a KL7 Marlin on order in 270, but dealers tell me they got so many back-orders it may take a yr to fill the demand. Also, Remington has come out with a new trigger, and will retro-fit the present 700's we got, but cost is about 100 bucks, and they in short supply as well.My CDL is at 4 lbs, and it's fine for me hunting, but I would like 2 l/2lbs for bench pratice. O well, will put 3 shots in a 2" spread at 200 yds and thats good enough so far.I got a Custom Built Mauser in 30-06 with 12oz pull, much too light for hunting, ok on bench, but I;m afraid to go hunting with it for that reason, plus its my show and tell gun and prefer to not scratch it up.Some excuse, but kinda figure my estate will be worth a tad more some day, as appears I;m gonna spend all my cash on hunting and firearms. Now,wonder what I will see I gotta have after the XL7 arrives. Another advantage for a new firearm with me is, I always kill game on the first hunt I go on with a new gun. On this 700 CDL in 06, it has been used to shoot at animals 5 times, and 5 kills , all one shot.The Old Southern Gun Slinger:::: Hey, Sarg. got my Applications in the mail, now a waiting game for about 2 months.I;m gonna E-mail you in a nite or so, need more info from you, OK. Take care.Shoot-um-straight and often.

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from sarg wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Mark1, you are absolutly correct about hollow point bullets, take the 168gr hpbt in .308, should never be used on larger game. The expansion in not right for a proper kill. (Here we go again). as Clay can verify, they are great at target out to 600 or 1000 yds. People should really consider the game when selecting bullet type.

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from Blue Ox wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Morning, GREG!There's time enough for sleep in the grave.

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from GREG wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Oh I dont sleep much.

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from GREG wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Hell there has to be another drunk bastard out there, come on!

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from GREG wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Hell you guys know more about calibers ,powder loads, yadda, yadda, yadda> I have learned so much from yall you are going to get me into massive trouble on the home front! I now want different calibers for comparison just to play with instead of utilitarian guns for the purpose of puttin meat in the freezer!Mr. Petzal I will hold you personally responsible for the repercussions. I may even give the Lady of the house the blog to let her tell you, If we can still afford it after my first .338! so beware!!LOL

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from sarg wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Rockymtnhunter, I once had a 336 in .35Rem. loved the gun, Had very pretty wood and shot great, but I only wanted one gun to hunt deer so I sold it and bought my Rem.700. I should have kept the 336 and still bought the Rem. which I could have,but just wasn't thinking. I would load 158gr. ,357 bullets in the 336, shot good with these also. I like the Rem much better. I was at (Yes, Walmart ) Walmart looking at guns again this afternoon in Ashland, Still dont like the new 700 ADL, Well I'm thinking about bed, going to get up tomorrow and go to the Armory, the Boys are in now but leave for WI. Monday for a couple weeks before going to #$@^%&*(*^$ For a year. sure going to miss the guys being a small town....

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Hey Shaky Sir you got me thinking on this. I was thinking along the line that a Leopard didn’t lose its spots. Instead what I realize what you’re saying is that Wildcats get Citizenships too!Ok, I’ll buy that! By the way here is some info on SAAMI.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporting_Arms_and_Ammunition_Manufacturers%27_InstituteSAAMI was founded in 1926 at the behest of the US government, with a charter to create standards, coordinate technical data, and promote firearms safety.[1] For example, they publish a list of Unsafe Arms and Ammunition Combinations which details situations where a smaller cartridge may fit in a firearms designed for a larger cartridge, but would be unsafe to use.[2] For example a .44 Magnum cartridge will chamber in a .45 Colt firearm but operates at a higher pressure and would be unsafe. SAAMI is an accredited standards developer for the American National Standards Institute (ANSI).

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

When I started reloading back in the early 70's, Hornady was a superb paper puncher. The "boys" that were serious about killing game used "Sierra" almost exclusively. Of course you had the guys that thought if it wasn't "Silver Tip", you were just wasting time!My caliber of choice is the .270 Win. I've tried lots of different bullets from 90 grain HP's to 160 Nosler Partitions! After much trial and error, I shoot the Sierra 130 gr BTSP and approximate factory loadings! A well placed shot may not drop a deer in it's tracks, but if you go to where they were standing when you fired, normally you can see them from there! I don't mind a 40 yard tracking job!Bubba

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from Mark-1 wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

I’m very careful when I use “hollow points”. Some are designed for varmints. Others are designed for big game hunting then there are those for targets. It sounds as if the fellow having problems with serrias for hunting was using Match King target bullets for hunting. Attention to detail! Attention to detail!I’ve had extremely good hunting with Serria Game King bullets over the years in 140-grain 7mm’s and 225-grain 35-caliber.

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from sarg wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

WamtnHunter, no doubt a large exit or entrance will bring down a nd bleed out an animal for a kill, some how I never figured on an animal to bleed out except when bow hunting. I am probable old fashioned in my beliefs but I grew up with the old writes who always tried to do the damage inside the carcus. I,ve always was taught the bullet should enter, expand to twice its size, retain it's mas and then we always did out the slug and compare to last shot. I know that the way a bullet performs depend on where it hit,s Thats why placement is important to the performanceof the slug. This year I loaded some 150gr. ,.308 round nose bullets for the .308 Win. I took a nice doe with one hitting high on the back. Deer did not run, but I was not really pleased with the large exit wound.. I wish I had hit lower so I could actually see what the bullet was capable of. Clay told me to try 130gr. this year and I believe at the range and all, this would do great. I've never hunted Elk or bear, had I done so I might change my feeling on exit wounds and larger bullets.I wouldn't hesitate to use a .338 , or 7mm08 on deer or lrger animals like where you live and hunt, still believe in bullet placement. You have a good day..

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from Shaky wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Clay, old buddy, the 25/06, 22/250, 35 Whelen, 7/08, .243, .244,.358, and a half dozen more standard calibers were wildcats at one time, but are no longer. The criteria we use for designating a wildcat is that SAAMI has not recognized a standard measurment and pressure limit. Presented to SAAMI in 1998 by A-Square, SAAMI issued standard measurements and a pressure level of 53000lb, thereby legitimizing the .338/06-A-Square. My old .338/06 was built on a 98 Mouser action and was a wildcat, a bit short to seat the bullets where I wanted them. This one is built on a 700 Rem., chambered A-Square,STANDARD, not a wildcat.

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Clay,Why you dumpin' on Shaky? As far as I'm concerned the 338/06 is no longer a wildcat. Weatherby picked it up and SAAMI approved so whats the deal?

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

In 45+ yrs., I have never had a Nosler Partition fail, period!!!However, I have every Siera HP Boatail fail on big game. They never opened up and went straight through with on exception. I neck shot a mulie at aprox. 300 yds with 139 grain and it lodged under the skin after penatrating the Spine. If I hadn't hit bone it would have never dropped the deer. The bullet was so perfectly formed it could be reloaded again if I chose. That was in the 1965-75 era. I have always used any thing but Sierra since. I under stand they make a good bullet for hunting now. I always used them for benchrest 100 to 1000yds but never after again for hunting. Weatherby always used partition bullets and I figured the knew what they were doing. 340, 270 and 257 all were outstanding rifles that they made and new they cost me about $368 new with a 26 in barrel. I bought the 340 for bear, but my friend were getting one shot kills with a 30-06(165gr. Barnes all copper) I think thats the way to go because you get a better BC in a 130gr. 270WSW than a 150gr.John whiteI'm now interested in trying the

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

AS most of you know my thoughts on calibers, 30-06's; I do believe you can use to large a bullet as well as to small. Like Sarg said, use a bullet that opens up and flares out and destroys the vitals. I;m guilty of using to large a bullet due to the fact I hunt the Rockies and hunt both Elk and Mule Deer at same time. I forget sometimes when i arrive home and when w-tail season opens I continue to use the l80's. This psat fall i shot a Buck at 270 yds using the l80 gr Scricco's, the bullet entered about 2" above teh top of the rigfht foreleg and exited the same on teh left side. The bullet also made hamberger out of his Vitals. That deer, dumped a 5 ft high fence, ran over 80 yds, never saw a drop of blood, but when my Son got to the deer,blood was coming out of both holes like a water hose, plus from his nose and mouth. Now, did I use to much bullet or not? Both legs were broken as well, how it ran at all beats me. With that same gun and ammo in Mt 2 weeks earlier,I shot a 4 x 4 at 345 yds, bullet entered his rear left rib about 5 " below his back bone and went all way thru the deer and out his right front shoulder.Yep, he fell in his tracts. So in 2 different cases same gun and ammo with two complete different success stories. I do believe the last one ran on pure fright ashe was standing brodside to me and had to make the fence jump and run. No tell me what gr bullet I should have used in each case or did i use the correct one? I am a firm believer in trust in your ability and the fiearm. This 700 CDL just feels correct to me, after I added 2 lb wt to butt and got the gun at 10 lbs. with a 4lb trigger. And, I pratice a lot before I head West. Just hope I can draw again as age catching up.Hey, any you guys hunted Elk in KY. I'm applying thanks to Sarg, hopefully will draw and be near home and save a few $$ to buy the new Marlin on order in 270????? Can you believe that? after my sermons on 06's? but I want to try the 270 on Lopes in WY.I know how the man felt who sold his 30-30, I did the same thing, but a few years ago, ran into a guy needing $ and bought a like new 336 in 30-30. This one I will keep as it's my woods gun, open sights. Hopefully can get my wife to use it this fall and put her shotgun aside. Shoot-um-straight and often.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Hey Shaky338-06 is not a Wildcat?O’Brother here we go again!From Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaThe .338-06 is a wildcat cartridge based on the .30-06. It allows heavier .338 caliber bullets to be used from the .30-06 non-belted case. This is a better choice for heavy bodied game such as moose, elk, and black bear than the .30-06. 338 caliber bullets became more widely available after the introduction in the late 1950s of the .338 Winchester Magnum cartridge, frequently chambered in the Winchester Model 70 rifle. The .338-06 maintains much of the benefits of the .338 Magnum cartridge but has substantially less recoil, makes more efficient use of powder, and allows use of widely available .30-06 commercial and military cases. The trade off though, is less available range due to reduced muzzle velocity. It is similar in concept to .333 OKH as well as the .35 Whelen, which also use the .30-06 brass case as a basic for the cartridge.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

David PetzalFirst of all, you have my most humble apology!The .340 Weatherby is in fact a .338 on steroids and not only you can add moose to that list and 1” inch thick plate Steel may I add! So you took your .338 to Africa in 1987 and took a dozen antelope of various types plus several crocodiles? I would have liked to see your reactions on your first African Trophy and I bet it was a dandy too! Speaking of one inch plate steel, my Brother has a 340 Weatherby and shot several holes thru it. So I decided, well if he can do it with a 340 Weatherby, my 338 Win Mag might do it too, WRONG! Talk about having a 250 grain Nosler Partition whistle over your head WOW! That 200+ fps does make a difference!

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Mark-1,I was going to make the very same post but thought better cause as a kid I'd throw rocks at birds when I ran out of BB's. Also if I'm not mistaken about you or another mark, WHERE'S MY PIZZA!

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

SargeYou are correct in the usual definition of a sucking chest wound.However, if you ventillate the chest cavity above the diaphram ON BOTH SIDES, there is a better chance that both lungs will collapse. Elk have thick hides with a good layer of fat during hunting season and a small diameter hole in one side can be covered up and sealed by the shifting hide rendering the lungs operable. You put a .35 caliber hole on both sides and the air will go out of that dude!To each his own. That has been my experience. I have only shot one elk that I didn't recover in short order. I hit him high on the shoulder and didn't hit the spine obviously. We blood trailed him for over a mile, mostly on hands and knees. I did not take a follow up shot because I was confident he would fall over any second. Wrong! Another mistake that I never repeated.

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from sarg wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Hey, anyone of you guys seen the muzzleloading barrel for the Mossburg 500 shotguns? Midway USA has them. Anyone tried one yet??

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from sarg wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

WAMTNHUNTER, of course you are more adept to see sucking chest wounds, Exit holes, etc in combat, everyone is shooting FMJ bullets Not really made for proper expansion. I still say older writers would not want a bullet that exited the animal. a bullet does not have to expand to exit an animal, just be too heavy or too fast for the size critter you are shooting. Simple isn't it?

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from sarg wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Wamtnhunter, Not all sucking chest wounds do not have an exit, but what yousee is actually the entrance wound usually from shrapel( didn't spell that right did I?) A sucking chest wound is where something has entered the lungs.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

SargI have to disagree with you on the bullet exit situation. As an ol' Sarg you know how long something survives with a sucking chest wound.A bullet that will penetrate the animal leaving a good wound channel through vitals will result in vittles every time. A solid hit with exit above the diaphram will collapse lungs. A bullet with a small diameter entry and exit wound won't provide enough "ventillation" to collapse lungs and provide a good blood trail. If one uses a small diameter rapidly expanding bullet, the shot placement better be where vital organ destruction is complete. Else get out your tracking gear.....

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from Mark-1 wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Denny must be stern fellow and hunts with a stone-tip’d spear and an atlatl, wearing animal skins.That’s a bit too far the other way on the argument, Guy.

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from sarg wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Don't like for bullets to exit..

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from sarg wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Chev,Mark, Don't get me crying over the ones I let get away,, Can't go back and pick them up.. I sold one of the nicest Mauser in 7x57 get away. Sold it for $85.00. I still cry when I think of it..

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from Mark-1 wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

[Sob! Choke!] I too had one of the first Remington Mountain Rifles in 7 x 57.Like a dummy I traded it in on a 220 Swift [sob]. The Mountain was what previous bloggers claim. Mine would put 140 and 160 grain handloads into an inch. It would clover leaf 115-grain hollow points for woodchucks at 3015 fps [choke].Sob! It’s Karma. Bad Karma!

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from Chev Jim wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

I know how Ishawooa must miss that Remington Mountain Rifle! I think this is one of the best rifles ever built. It's light, quick handling, and highly accurate. Yes, it's a push-feed action, but it has never failed to push and feed! Mine is in .30/06 and it will do .5- to .75-inch groups at 100 yards for three shots. I bought it at a Rod and Gun Club in Germany and it came from the factory with a less than three-pound trigger pull! Luckily, it wasn't affected by any recalls for faulty trigger or safety mechanisms. I topped mine with one of the LAST Weaver 2X-7X variable scopes, one of the El Paso ones, which is set in Redfield rings on two-piece bases. By the way, I found a great way to repair any scratches you got on a polymer finish: I use a little auto wax on terry cloth to polish out the scratch. The finish is a little shiny from the polishing, so I get a cotton ball, dampen it, and lightly dip it into some pumice dust. I gently polish the finish where the auto wax was applied, and then I have restored the finish to its original, satin finish! If you don't live near a volcano, you can probably get the pumice dust from your wife! I couldn't trade this Remington for anything. When you get older, you will tend to appreciate the lighter rifles a lot more, and you'll see that old Jack was right about most factory rifles being too heavy. It's not such a big deal if you're on horseback or you have a gun bearer, but still hunting with a heavy rifle gets tiring pretty quick!

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from sarg wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Dave, sorry, I forgot to comment on the good info, teaching women how to hold their Rifle, placeing the elbow closer to the body. This would also apply to men. In the Army, we would place the elbow on our ammo pouches on our web belt for a steady hold. really help control wobble... Good job, keep it up....Gary Smith(sarg)

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from sarg wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Hey Dave Petzal, Post some more pic's of the S/W I-Bolt you wrote about in this Month's F/S magazine... You didn't show a good shot of the rifle... very Interesting.. Keep up the good work.Gary Smith (sarg)

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from denny wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Wow , I'm amazed at your choice of convenience over skill. I can't track so I'll use a different bullet so I can mess up this animal internally and make it bleed more so I can find it easier. Hey heres and idea, why not just buy a .50 caliber machine gun. That way even if it does survive the initial shock of getting shot and the injuries it sustains and runs into the shrubbery you can just shoot down all the trees and bushes so it can't hide no more. Its bad enough that people have altered the natural odds by using firearms but teaching people ways to make it even easier for people is just sick. I guess its "give me convenience or give me death" for a lot you people, grow some balls and hunt using your own strength and smarts.

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from Shaky wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Although not common, the .338-06 is not a wildcat. It was presented to SAAMI by A-Square, and sudsequently, accepted as a standard caliber in 1998. It is currently loaded commercially by Weatherby and Nosler and possibly others. Weatherby made rifles chambered for the round for a time, but have discontinued, although there are rumers they intend a limited run.I just acquired my second rifle in .338-06, and can speak from experience of the rounds effectivness. It ROCKS!!. I will use on a far northern hunt this fall and (if I survive), will be able to tell you more about what it's performance was on the larger game of north America.On the .338 Win.: I baught my first one in 1966, a pre'64 win. Alaskan. That was the only rifle that ever hurt me to shoot. It took me over a year to recover from the flinches, and when I sold it to a friend I insisted he shoot it several times before he baught it. He loves that rifle and shoots it often, and is amazingly accurate with it. It just plain didn't fit me, so it hurt. I'm happy for both of them, but, I wouldn't take it back as a gift. On the other hand, I baught a Rem.700 custom shop .338 Win. last summer, planning a northern hunt, and put it in a Hogue stock equiped with their mushy recoil pad, and sighted it in over a Lead Sled, then proceded to shoot in varying hunting positions. Load, hot (69gr.IMR4350,Hor.225gr. bullet).I ran 34rnds. through it the first day, and felt no more abused than I would with my '06, and, by the way, that rifle shoots,prone I put 4@.375 with the 5th streching the group to 1.25 in.On the designer bullets, all of them: I will start shooting them when we are presented with designer animals to shoot. I have not found a need to spend 1-2 bucks on every shot I fire. If thats your choice, that's fine with me, but I don't intend to do it. Yes maybe I'm cheap, but I'm happy this way.

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Another cartridge that suffered from market failure and a lack of adequate bullets which about equaled the .338 is the 8 mm Remington. Its offspring, the 7 mm STW and the 416 Rem, offer sterling performance in their own right. In fact the 8 mm still has a small following of very satisfied shooters. I saw a near mint M-700 not to long ago which I dearly wanted to buy. There was no way the owner would sell it because he shot fantastic groups at the local range. Unbelievably he was not a hunter. No doubt this is why the appearance of the old rifle was exceptional. In typical Big Green fashion it is too bad the big 8 never caught on. Someone once told me that they work extraordinarily well on crocodiles but I cannot vouch for that statement.

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from Bernie Kuntz wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

I am surprised at the negative comments about Nosler Partitions. My experience with the bullet, going back 45 years, does not coincide. I have shot animals ranging from pronghorns and deer to grizzlies, Alaskan brown bears, bison, black bears, black wildebeast, elk, Shiras and Alaska/Yukon moose and never have had a failure. This includes cartridges ranging from .25/06 to .375 H & H. I also am a Hornady fan--the "old-fashioned" spire-point is a terrific bullet. Never have had one fail me. I use a few other brand of bullets but 95 percent of my handloads are Nosler Partitions and Hornady Spire-Points, now I think they are called Inter-locks. Manufacturers can make all the new-fangled super bullets they wish, I remain an old "throw-back" and will stick to what has worked for me for the last 45 years.

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from phil graver wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

The only time i ever used a .338 was when i hit the Mich elk lottery. My .257 Roberts seemed a bit small, so i borrowed Joe's .338. i practiced and it worked great. The 4x5 dropped in his tracks from two shots about 6 inches apart. At the first, thru the heart,right where the DNR said to shoot,it flinched. At the second,higher in the shoulder, it sagged to the ground where it had stood. i like .338s!

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from BA wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Del in KsI'm glad you haven't had the same experiences with partitions that we did. When these failures happened to us was in the 70's. After paying premium prices to hunt out of state deer, antelope, and elk, we were pretty disgusted with their performance.Three years ago all I could find at the time for my 6mm Rem was Fed 100 gr partitions, so I thought well maybe they've improved by now, so I bought them. I then shot a forked horn through the heart, it turned and started going up the hill. So I shot it in the rump right alongside the tail. That second shot stopped it, but it was still poor performance. It made a fist sized hole next to the tail and the rear core only penetrated 6 more inches. In the following 2 years I shot 100 gr Hornady Interlocks and killed 4 bucks, one shot each, breaking at least one shoulder bone and destroyed the lungs on each one with complete penetration. None of the last four went more than 10 yards and had trouble getting that far. The Interlocks did not separate from the core. All, including the one shot with the partitions were less than 100 yards. I'm glad the partitions work for you, but you couldn't pay me to use another one. I could go on and tell you more stories like this but it's not necessary. Thanks for the feedback.

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from Dick Mcplenty wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

I've never seen a partition fail EVER and I've seen hundreds of deer elk and antelope shot with the partition. There's no voodoo science to them at all.The front half of the partition is no differant than any other bullet and is softer then the bottom half and in many cases softer then other cup and core designs,which does nothing but insure even better exspansion.Nosler claims full exspansion down to 1900fps impact velocities.But I've recovered partitions from dead elk that had impact velocities down in the 1600fps range,and the exspanded recovered bullets were nearly double original diameter...Trying to contribute bullet failure to animals that you didn't recover,is meaningless. There's too many variables present to even begin blaming the bullet.I've seen whitetail doe's run 300 and 400 yards with softball size exit wounds.If I hadn't recovered these deer,should I have blamed it on bullet failure?

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from Mark-1 wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Doc,Ya put a 338 hole through an animal, it goes down.Europeans and African hunters for the most part believe in "solid" bullets that go through an animal for that reason. Of course, these hunters are excellent trackers or they have pro trackers with them.I hate to write this, we American hunting types, in comparison, are too range and ATV bound for our own good. We want "shots" in lieu of learning good hunting skills.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

The problem, as I see it, is that bullets made and loaded in the .338 caliber are not intended for animals that weigh less than 300 pounds. Their jackets are thicker, they open more slowly and they don't do a hell of a lot of damage on less than abnormal sized white tails. I have killed white tailed deer with more than a dozen cartridges and 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips out of an 06 up to 125 yards and possibly farther if I could just find somewhere to shoot one from those distances make deer drop... now... and are deader than the ghost of bruised shoulders past.

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from sarg wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

SteveC,I think what some on this blog are gettig at is as you say enough light to track, This of course does not always present itself, so they shoot something to prevent tracking due to light and terrain conditions.. Useing enough bullet weight but not really overkill(There,s that word again)...

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Dave:Where do you hold on a croc? Can one expect to make a "Texas heart shot" on this animal with a .338 and a properly constructed bullet? What is the next step if the wounded but enraged critter makes it to the water? I suppose I have not watched enough Outdoor Network crocodile hunts although I vaguely remember a few. Obviously I have never encountered one in Wyoming but have seen aligators in Mississippi. Would a 7 x 57 with a modern bullet accomplish the same outcome? As I remember Crocodile Dundee packed a .303 SMLE and a huge knife. Please enlighten.

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from David wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Just like I said in the other Blog "It all Depends"

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from Dave Petzal wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

To Clay Cooper: No, I meant that particular rifle. I got my first .338 in 1976. In NA, I've killed whitetails, mule deer, elk, black bear, caribou, and prairie dogs with it. If you want to consider the .340 Weatherby a .338 on steroids you can add moose to that list. Took a .338 to Africa in 1987 and took a dozen antelope of various types plus several crocodiles.

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Chev Jim:I wish you had not brought up the Rem Mt rifle. Just last night I was thinking about the one that I purchased probably the first year they hit the market. It was a .280 and had all of the qualities that you described and was exceedingly accurate. A few years went by and I managed to buy a couple other .280's that were "purtier". I let the Mt Rifle go on the trade. What I did not consider was the extra weight of the two new rifles, they were no more accurate than the Remington, but the serial numbers were only two digits apart. Big deal. Today I would probably trade both of them for the little Remington.I sure miss that rifle...again the gun trader's lament.

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from Zermoid wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

I shoot 6.5 Swede and 30-30 in PA, have only had to look for 3 deer, and they were within 75 yds of where they were hit. Aim true and they drop like a rock, of the 3 I had to find one was hit a little to far back, went thru liver and gut. One was hit thru the back of both lungs just ahead of the liver and passed thru. And the last was hit with a snap shot (yes I should have aimed better but it was in thick brush and running, now or never thing) thru the guts and lodging in the far side back leg, ruined a lot of the ham with that shot!If you sever the spine or take out the heart and lungs they don't go nowhere!

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from Chev Jim wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

All kidding aside, I think it's perfectly all right if someone wants to hunt deer with a .338 magnum, or a .416 for that matter. It's really a matter of what rifle in your rack do you trust more than any other, that you feel most comfortable with, that you believe could get you out of a pinch with an enraged moose or grizzly. I remember moving up to a .300 Weatherby when I didn't feel that the .270 Winchester killed quickly enough. It wasn't the caliber, though--it was the bullets. Back in the late 1960s, I was shooting Hornady 130-grainers with fairly heavy jackets. I shot a 10-pointer about 20 yards away, with the first shot going just below his eye--I couldn't see his body behind the tall grass! He got up and I shot him four more times. He ran only 30 yards before collapsing, pumped up with adrenaline as he was, but I had expected those bullets to put him like they were death rays! I also didn't really like my rifle, which was a post-64 Model 70. I was young, and nobody at the gun club told me that the Model 70 line was undergoing radical revision. It was about a two-MOA rifle for the most part, was ugly, and the bolt was very stiff to work. With proper handloads, you could squeeze one-inch groups out of it. My "go-to" rifle now is a Model 700 Remington Mountain Rifle in .30/06, which I love because of its light weight, its looks, and its accuracy--it will shoot half-inch groups with most ammo at 100 yards. I have a Model 70 in .416 that I hate, because of the stock inletting around the barrel. I plan to get this fixed. I think guns are like cars--you love some because they're so reliable, and you hate others that have become "repair shop queens." So, yes, I think it's OK to take any adequate caliber to the game fields, although I prefer to match the rifle to the game, and save myself any unnecessary punishment. We know our Dave P. does it because he simply wants to do it--not because he thinks anything less than a .338 is inadequate for deer--and because the ghost of Elmer Keith probably filled his bedroom with cigar smoke!

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from 007 wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Clay, I thought about the .338 Federal/.338-08 but the '06 has been around much longer and should have all of the bugs worked out by now. I also think it would be the better round for black bear under less than perfect conditions or larger antlered game, hopefully one day. I already have a .308 anyway and was looking for something to fill a niche somewhere around it and my .300 Win. Mag. so I thought the '06 was the best choice. Too, I just like unusual calibers and don't know anybody else that has one.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

One more thing, if you cannot knock down a Caribou (BOO) with a 270 with a Hornady 130 grain soft point with one shot? You got a real problem shooter!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

007So you’re building a 338-06, KOOL! By the way, Barnes makes a 160 grain bullet in 338 diameter now. 19 rounds on an Elk? Talk about BUCK FEVER and/or sights are really off!!! Not going to go there? 338 Federal vs 338-06? I’ll pick the 338-06 over the 338 Federal any day and its test proven by golly!!! The only advantage of a 338 Federal is only if you want a sub range rifle and your recoil sensitive! You’ll have to really pump it up to get near a 06 case with more powder to match the 338 bore! That why we call the 308 a 30-06 short kind of like comparing 22 short to a 22 long rifle!

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Dave,I would love to see your breakdown of all the different hunting bullets. For example what has been your experience with the Nosler Partition?

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from Brian wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

I own the .243/.257/.270/30.06/7remmag/.444 marlin; damned if I can tell much difference at resonable ranges, on the hand I would cry if somoene made me live with only one caliber of rifle. I'm glad we the freedom to worry about differences between all the different rifle calibers.

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from Del in Ks wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

BAI've shot critters from Caribou to coyotes with Partitions ranging from 6 mm to 358 cal. and never lost one yet. Last years big 8 pt MO whitetail went 20 yards and piled up after a 100 gr 2506 partition went thru both lungs. That was about the farthest anything has made it to date. However, because of better BC I expect to shoot Barnes bullets next fall.

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from Del in Ks wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

BAI've shot critters from Caribou to coyotes with Partitions ranging from 6 mm to 358 cal. and never lost one yet. Last years big 8 pt MO whitetail went 20 yards and piled up after a 100 gr 2506 partition went thru both lungs. That was about the farthest anything has made it to date. However, because of better BC I expect to shoot Barnes bullets next fall.

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from Del in Ks wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Dave,In all your travels have you ever seen a .14 caliber centerfire? Ray Smith an old WWII navy diver and retired mechanical engineer was also a prairie dog fanatic. Ray built rifles in his basement in Overland Park Ks until his death a few years ago. He built my 6mmX284 win. While at his shop Ray showed me a 14 centerfire he made up. Ray said he wanted to see that P-dog turn to vapor thru his scope and he needed a gun with high velocity and low recoil. If memory serves he used a Rem Mdl 7 action and Shilen match grade barrel. He bought bullet making equipment from Corbin and gave me one of the jacketed HP bullets he made. It looked about the size of a no 2 pencil lead without the wood. Clymer made the chamber reamer. I think Ray necked down a 222 Rem. but not sure. Alas, the old timer passed before I got to find out how his new toy worked in the field. Must of been a smokin' fast bullet.

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from BA wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

For the life of me I cannot understand how people can be loyal to the Nosler Partition when it has proven time and again that it is not 100% reliable on game. If you want certain reliability, load the Swift A-frame, Swift Scirocco, Nosler Accubond, or the Barnes Triple Shock, or the Speer Grand Slam all are proven 99% reliable. Nosler Partitions are not. Period. They are the result of too much gunwriter hype. Believe me, my family has had to track too many animals and some of them were never found. Why would anyone want to take a chance. In fact I'll take a Hornady Interlock over any Nosler Partition for reliability. I consider partitions to be voodoo science. There demise is long overdue. I'd even take a Sierra Gameking over a partition, at least I'd know that jacket separation was pretty much inevitable. With the partition nothing is certain. It either goes straight through like someone mentioned or it blows the front core on contact and the rear core now destablilized, can go any direction. Very poor reliability in my estimation. I guess the 338 would kill an animal with just about any bullet out there because of it's raw power and authority, but this is certainly not true of lesser calibers. With so many good bullets on the market, why anyone would stoop to the partition is beyond me. It must be an addiction.

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Concerning the 19 rounds shot at one bull, I once heard the same story about a local guy who I sort of knew. I had watched him shoot at a remote range in the desert one day. He had a new Ruger M-77 in .338 which he had won at the Elks Foundation dinner. It was one of those early models with the rather thin and light synthetic stock with virtually no recoil pad to speak of. My observation was that it was kicking the hell out of him with factory loads and his groups were pie plate of angle. Anyway after hearing the 13, 17, or 19 shot story depending on who was doing the telling I encountered him on the street one day. He replied that no in fact he had only fired eight times. The first bullet hit the bull's body somewhere at about 150 yards and it hauled butt. He continued to blaze away sometimes hitting somewhere and sometimes missing. After reloading a couple times to continue this process the poor bull finally gave it up. The guy went back to his '06 after that swearing that the .338 was not worth a whit for anything. Of course he had owned the '06 for about 20 years and could drive tacks with it. I think we all see the moral here.

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from Mark-1 wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

I grew from the sub-30 cal deer rifles to the medium bores in some kind of natural progression like some other blogger-mouths. The medium bores became the major factor in my hunting after the smallest animal I was hunting was 300-lbs. Although I could kill elk and caribou [BTW I never thought caribou are easy to anchor] with 30 and 7mm bullets I liked the way 338 and 35 cal bullets overwhelm the animals. These big bullets are the only way to go when hunting the hairy mean stuff.I guess the 200 and 210 grain bullets in 338 and 35 caliber are OK if you want to hunt deer, but I found nothing better than a good 225 grain bullet for 90% hunting. For the mean stuff I go with 250-grain bullets.I tried the Noslers and have seen them used, and frankly I find they lack any real advantage over the mundane Speer, Serria or Hornady’s. I’ve yet to try the Barnes or Sirocco’s.I’ve not found the recoil in 338 Mag or 35 Whelen to be a terror although none of these medium bores are plinking guns.I insist a person “backing me up” on the mean stuff have *real* shooting experience under dramatic hunting situations to hold on the brown and put the bullet in it. Any “back-up” is to pull my butt out because I [we] was/were sloppy or unlucky. Hesitating, navel-gazing thoughts don’t mix with in-your-face situations. Recreation ends. You just grow old, real old…and wondering just what the hell are you doing [t]here.With this in mind, given a choice in dramatic situations I want my 458 over my 35 Whelen. Big Bears, The Bug Grazers and Cats don’t accept apologies.

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Clay:I have never experienced the two hole exit of the Sierra 250 gr but have, in fact, found them in two pieces, or more, in bull elk shot at modest ranges. One such bull had an odd lump and a patch of white hair on his left shoulder. Upon digging into it I found a bit of arrow shaft and a broadhead against his shoulder bone. Amazingly it had healed quite well. Most of my utilization was in the late eighties or early nineties with this bullet so perhaps some of the ones I had were better bonded than the previous versions that you spoke of. Since then it has been Partitions or some 250 gr SBTs made by a local guy. The local guy produces beautiful bullets which appear to offer excellent performance. The problem is that bullet making is his hobby and he often works out of the country in the oil industry. This makes having a steady supply of good cheap bullets very questionable. They are similiar to the Partitions but with a higher BC. He continues to tell me that he intends to make some 300 gr .338 bullets but so far I have not seen the effort. Having never shot this heavy bullet I think it to be an interesting day at the range "just for kicks"...

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from Black Rifle Addict wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Concerning the .338/06 vs the new .338 Federal, is there much ballistic difference between the two? It seems that the .30/06 is the favored parent case of this wildcat cartridge, so why did federal base the factory load on the .308 case? Was their concern based on existing .338/06 rifles out there using factory loads fired in them, or a "shorter action is better" mentality?

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from Del in KS wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Dick McPlenty, have you ever met Puss Galore or Lotta Fagina?

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from Del in KS wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Nineteen rounds at one elk. Was that rifle belt fed or was he just fast at reloading!!!

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from Dick Mcplenty wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

On the subject of partitions in smaller calibers on smaller big game. Use light for caliber bullet weights. You end up getting a little more violent impact velocities under normal ranges,which makes the partition shed all of its front portion.Does some dramatic internal damage,but you're still going to have the normal exit wounds that partitions provide in most cases.

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from 007 wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Is this discussion limited only to the .338 Win. Mag? I am having a .338-06 built to be used as a foul weather white-tail rifle and a black bear rifle. Do I need that much horsepower for whitetails? No, my usual go-to is either a .257 Rbts. or a .308 Win. but I wanted something heavier for bad weather that would hit with authority assuming I do my part. It will be rifled to shoot 200 gr. Hdy. Interlocks and according to Gary Sitton, should be "a terror" for what I have planned for it. Too, as I get older, I find myself drawn more to heavy for caliber bullets so the 200 gr. .338-06 makes good sense to me. One of the best eastern whitetail hunters I ever knew swore by a .338 Win. Mag. because in his opinion it damaged less meat since the bullet expansion was not as great. He started with a .35 Remington, went to a .243, to a .30-06, finally to the .338.

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from Dr. Killdeer wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

19 .338 rounds!!! Who carries that much ammo hunting?!?!?

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Mr. Petzal, are you saying that you haven’t shot anything with a 338 yet? You disappoint me SirI was under the impression that all those Manufacturers would be sending you out on great hunting trips?? How can you talk up a product without first hand using it in actual situations?Perhaps if you get enough trigger time especially on jack rabbits in New Mexico, you’d be taking those big bucks giving you the hoof! 338 on jacks? NASTY! NASTY! NASTY!By the way, last season I was feeling abet sadistic and thinking of taking my 338 Win Mag out too

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

IshawooaAbout the Sierra 250 gr. Gamekings, practically every shot we made with them we had jacket separation. I shot a Caribou with a Sierra 250 gr. Gameking one hole in and two going out. I called Sierra back in 1990 and first was told no way but after the Bullet Tech found out who I was admitted it and said they where working on an adhesive/bonding agent that upon firing the heat would adhere the core to the jacket. However, the Sierra 250 gr. Gameking is one hell of a long range bullet I must agree!

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from sarg wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Dave, I,ve often heard that when a dangerous animal starts a charge , even when hit it will continue the motion, perhaps the Elk had already started to the woods when hit and even though you got a good hit, it continued .. Often deer when hit are disoriented for a few seconds when hit and may even run in circles until it decides just which way to go. I have been lucky while deer hunting, never to have to track an animal or shoot more than one shot with my Rem. 700 in.308. All shots have been at close range,50-75 yds. here in the hilly country of Kentucky.About shooting the .338 at deer, shoot it. Thats your business and if you are wanting to try one out, more power to you. That's the bueaty of having more than one Rifle. I lost a nice deer one time by taking an unfamiliar rifle to the woods, Didn't shoot at a nice deer once with a 6.5Jap because I really wasn't sure at 300 yds.. Waiting for deer to get closer and it just vanished. Had I took my .308 I would have taken the shot, knowing the charastics of the Rem. The bad part was, a friend warned me about taking an unfamiliar rifle that day.( Live and learn) Good subject, Keep up the good work...

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from retired waycar rider wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Dave, I've lived within 20 miles of the Hornady factory ever since they opened their door, never seen any need to use anything else for loading and shooting any critter. Here in the high plains you have a wide choice of where to shoot your game, along the rivers, short shots, or in the pine ridge, long shots. we can shoot whitetails or mule deer in the same pastures in most parts of the state where I hunt so good old Hordany's do the job.--love the new SST's. Remember you owe the game you're shooting at the courtesy of a quick clean demise, so lots of time spent at the range is the thing to do.

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Thanks Dave for mentioning the .338, again. This topic has been very informative with real life shooting/loading experiences mentioned!

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Dick:Only 40 grains difference between the 210 and the 250. I bet that sets off the .270 shooters who sweat whether to shoot a 130, 140, or 150. I just load the 130 Barnes (only cartridge I use Barnes in) and shoot it at everything since accuracy is phenominal as is penetration.BA:I will comment on your statement regarding the "little" Partitions. Although I have had splendid success with this bullet in the .300 and .338 I have noted that results were less than spectacular in the .243, .270, or .280. Don't think I ever used them in the '06. I have shot a couple bulls with them in 7 Rem Mag, since in Wyoming you have to follow Les Bowman's lead at one time or another, with one dropping immediately but the other required a followup shot since it was rather long range and the bullet struck him high and too far back to be perfect placement). I witnessed one hunter shoot an antelope numerous times with 6 mm Rem Partitions and the buck still went well over 100 yards. The numerous exits looked much like all of the entrance wounds. I have a sixties vintage Sako Deluxe .243 that has killed over 40 deer and antelope (some shot by others who I had loaned the rifle to, some first time deer or antelope hunters). Most of these kills were one shot dead in their tracks with 100 gr. Sierras, Ballistic Tips (which I don't like much due to the devastating explosive construction and nature except for the .338 version), or 105 gr. Speers. On the other hand I twice have seen a friend shoot 170 class mulies at 40 to 75 yards with a .300 Weatherby Fibermark shooting Partitions and both animals ran off until we found them 200 to 500 yards out in the desert. Same findings as far as wounds go. I think the fast little Partitions simply zip on through the critter without slowing enough to open up properly due to their specific construction.

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from BA wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

.338 Sierra SBT Gameking for lungshots on Deer, dynamite. Inch and a half exit hole. Just make sure you don't hit solid meat, or Woops, looks like jelly. Nosler Partitions failed us 75% of the time on 30-06 and smaller calibers, why take a chance on .338 size critters. Speer Grand Slams never failed us in any caliber. Swift A-frames never failed us. Accubond never failed us. Hornady Interlock never failed us. Partition? junk! I agree with "beware of the one gun man". Favorite calibers, 338 Win Mag, 270 WSM, 223 Rem. They're all good. Just pick the right bullets.

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from Chad Love wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Dick, I just have to ask: Is that your real name or a handle? Because if it is your real name your parents had either a savage sense of humor or a colossal naivete...

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from Dick Mcplenty wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Mostly its called mental masturbation. I've ran the 210's and 250's in the past because in my rifle they've shot to within less then an inch of each other with the same sight in. Then after shooting a number of animals with both and not seeing any advantage on smaller big game with the 210's,I simply stuck with 250's since I want performance on elk,which the 210 is no slouch.I use a rangefinder and a multi dot reticle.I don't shoot beyond 500 yards and honestly seldom need to shoot beyond 250 yards.With my set up the 250gr bullets work on antelope just as well as elk.The whole attraction to 250 gr bullets in .338,along with 175gr bullets in 7mm and 200gr bullets in .308,is penetration,even if you use standard cup and core bullets.Elmer was on to something with 250gr and 300gr bullets at modest 2600 to 2700fps velocities. They hold together even if they aren't premium and they usually exit. With premium bullets perfomance differances are really blurred. In comparing the 210gr partition to the 250gr partition,we're talking as much differance in lead or weight as a .22lr(40grs)and we're expecting to see earth shattering differances.Ain't going to happen.If it weren't for cheaper nosler 2nds(which aren't really cheap anymore,since they got greedy) I'd be shooting sierra or hornady bullets.I'm cheap.I still don't see the greatness in firing dollar bills at animals,each time I pull the trigger.

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Dick:Well done and reasonably stated. Personally in addition to the 250 gr. Partitions I have had unbelievably good success with simple ole Sierra 250 gr. Gamekings. Thinking back over the last few bulls I am not certain that one was superior to the other except the Sierra does come apart more readily as expected. I have made numerous one shot kills out to 325 or so with both of these bullets. I admit to having purchased a box of 225 gr. Partitions for experimentation in flattening out the trajectory. Two years have passed and those tests have not yet been done due to other projects at the range and in the field. Maybe one day. I noted that you did not mention that particular weight and wondered if you feel as I do. The loss in weight is not worth the potential for modest trajectory improvement. Oh well I can always sell or trade them and keep on shooting those 250's.

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from Dick Mcplenty wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Well dave after reading this blog again,I've got to wonder just how much experience you really have with the .338win mag.And you call me sublime.I've carried a .338 win mag for 19 seasons.Its greatest virtue,is its chambered in a left handed model 700.I've used it on deer, elk and antelope,it usually kills a bull elk,cow or calf elk and at least a mule deer buck and at least three doe whitetail a year.Not to mention being being used by other hunters at least a couple times a year on like animals.I've used just about every bullet combo available. I've settled on 250 gr partitions for everything.Which as far as I'm concerned is the only bullet needed in a .338 win mag. Not 210 gr bullets because they recoil less and you can still lay claim to using a mighty .338.Dave you stated that you chose the .338 on those maine whitetails for "Interal Damage" and "Big enough exit wound for good blood trails" not a drop every 12.2 yards.Well dave I've used the 200gr bullets from speer,hornady,nosler and a couple others on deer. The nosler ballistic tip in .338 uses a heavy jacket and is designed around the same 60% weight retention that partitions and accubonds are. The end result is no more damage and in a lot of cases even less damage to a deer then any other .277,.284,.308 bullet driven at like speeds.Partitions are really disappointing in .338 on deer if you're hung up on getting a large exit wound.The 210gr partition tears things up internally,but usually sheds all the front portion and peals back the petals flush with the sides of the bottom portion of the bullet,leaving you with a standard exit wound of a .50 cent piece.Which is the same exit wound size that can be had with any of the smaller calibers.In fact its been my finding that on deer any of your heavy for caliber ballistic tips in .308 down to .277,tear things up better or at least as good and leave as good or better exit wounds on deer,as anything you can fire from a .338 win mag.I've seen 165gr corelokts out of an aught six leave incredible results on deer and they're cheap.If you don't want to track deer use shoulder shots or use non premium bullets(ones actually designed for deer) through the ribs.Just as a side note dave,you owe it to yourself to discuss the .338 win mag with one of your fellow writters John Barsness. I've talked to him at length and his findings with the .338 are very similar to my experiences.

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

MN Banjo, LowRecoil, ChadLI have several (3) different rifles that I use for different situations.1. .270 Win - deer and anything else2. .30-30 Win - feral hogs and anything else3A. .22 Hornet - turkeys and anything else3B. .22 LR - varmints around the house and anything elseIf one of the above won't get the job done where I hunt, guess I'll just have to change hunting areas!The three of you slammed this one.Give me one gun that I can shoot comfortably, shoot well, and enjoy shooting!Everything else is just gravy!Bubba

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from Chad Love wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

No, no, no. You got it all wrong. It's "Beware the man with many rifles in one caliber."You have to have a back-up. And then a back-up to the back-up. And then a loaner for friends. And then you have to have a couple for each of your unborn children. And then a couple spares buried out in the back yard just in case.

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from LowRecoil wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

MidnightBanjo makes an excellent point. It bewilders me that someone will spend stacks of cash on the rifle of their dreams, and then buy one (ONE!) box of the cheapest ammunition available. Odds are, half of that box will still be unfired when deer season rolls around.Of course, the natural progression is that when a deer presents itself for a shot, our thrifty hunter whiffs and then (all together now) blames the rifle. "Dadgum them danged ol' Rugers anyhow! I gotta get me a Remington!" Of course, any shots that I may have missed truly WERE caused by faulty weapons.It occurs to me that a good living could be made by following shooters who have firmly established bad habits or are allergic to practice, and offering to buy their rifles at a deep discount when they miss a shot.

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from MidnightBanjo wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Disturbing is what I find this kind of thinking to be. I'm with Bubba - just let me have one good rifle that I can shoot. To think that you need a different rifle for every situation is baffling. How many do you guys carry with you in the field? I am in no way saying that you should use the same rifle for elephants as you do for squirrels - but come on, do you really need 4 or 5 different rifles/calibers to hunt deer/elk/hogs? With the range of bullet weights out there for just about every caliber, I just don't see the need in having specific rifle, caliber, and load for every possible situation! If you need this, maybe you aren't as good a shot as you think you are. While learning to shoot I was told "Learn to shoot what you've got! It's plenty of gun!" They were talking about an old single shot .22. I must have shot that thing a couple hundred thousand times in my life. Took untold numbers of rabbits, squirrels, unfriendly and unowned dogs, coyotes, turtles and snakes (yes - snakes) with it. After learning to shoot it, not having it tuned/bedded/scoped/trigger job/and anything else you could think of, I could hit anything I could see with plain old ammo from the local store. I've seen my Grandfather drop a running coyote at nearly 1/4 mile with his 30-30 using open sights. Point being, spend the time on the range, know your firearm, place your shot well and have fun. Learn to shoot, learn shot placement, and when in doubt let it walk away. Just my own rant. Seems to me that I remember something like "Beware the man with one rifle"

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from Dale M wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Who the heck put together the current hunting rifle test (Test Your Whitetail IQ?) Correct answers such as "try a Texas brain shot" on an unwounded, unalerted deer?You've never shot your rifle at 350 yards and you're not sure how much the bullet drops out there but the "correct" answer is "hold on the hair and pray"?Contrary to the author of that test I've also known shooters who were very good target shots but poor game shots. It was undoubtedly something psychological, but nevertheless such things happen.Where has the author of that test been???

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

P.S. Let's all give Chev Jim a standing ovation for his Dickens send off... ghost of bruised shoulders indeed!

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

I'd have to agree with Dave and say McPlenty is full of facts and logic and from where I stand Low Recoil is also a newcomer with Plenty O'Wit. I also am amazed at the growth of this site. Not only in numbers but in the quality of personnel. We are becoming a think tank of the first magnitude.Different bullets are intended for different purposes and matching them to your particular hunting style is now the ennui du jour. Ballistic tips open rapidly and cause massive damage... but not out of a .338 on a gopher. A-Frames will go through everything including the tree behind your big buck. We are a culture overwhelmed by technology even when we try to return to our hunter gatherer roots. O'Connor lamented the slower opening deeper penetrating loads and I'm with him. Give me a little less edible meat and an animal that crumbles in its tracks every time. I don't take many shots over 50 yards because you can't see any farther than that in the woods here, tracking is near impossible and someone else will tag your buck 200 yards away. I'm going to write it just like last time in all caps... BULLET PLACEMENT IS EVERYTHING. I looked for a gut shot 150lb probably 90 field dressed doe for three hours once that my in law shot with a .375 H&H Magnum. Bigger is not always better, ask any of my old girlfriends!

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

You (blog folks!) keep talking about the .338 Win Mag.I loaded a butt load of .270 Win with the 160 gr Nosler Partition for a trip to Colorado. Probably popped 5 caps out of 50 rounds the entire trip and those were at the range!Time, work, and store being what it was, I decided to just shoot those come white tail season in E. Texas. They kill muley's and elk, why not whitetail?The little buck stepped out at about 50 yards. When the gun went off, he turned and ran straight at me, just like he'd never been touched! When he turned broadside on seeing me, I punched him again!There were four exterior holes, each and every one .277 in diameter! Those heavy bullets did not open up!Bubba

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

The "deadest" I ever kilt one, was in 1979. I had loaded some Sierra 90 gr FBHP in my .270 Win on a whim. Opening weekend of deer season, I couldn't find the box of 130 gr SPBT I had loaded for the trip. In desperation, I shot 3 of the 90's and was surprised at the accuracy, lowered the crosshair a bit and went hunting!He stepped out at approximately 125 yards. I had the 3X9 Leupold cranked up to 9 and he stopped broadside. I rested the rifle on the window sill of the blind and squeezed a round off.That was the FIRST time I actually saw what happened to the deer before recoil destroyed the sight picture! WOW!As long as my old .270 keeps punching 'em dead, that's what I'll shoot!Bubba

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

LowRecoil:Your perceptions are without a doubt applicable to almost everyone. Here is my .30-30 tale.In about '69 or '70 I wanted a new rifle but didn't have the money so I "settled" for a 1957 vintage like new M-94 in .30-30. As the years passed and the gun safe filled the M-94 got shoved to the back. One day I mentioned to a fellow that I had this old gun and he offered enough money for it that I could buy another Leupold Vari-X III. Well last year my kid (yep the trap shootin, magnum loving, long range expert) decided that he would forgo the magnums and .270/.280s and wanted to shoot his deer with an open sighted .30-30. Of course mine is gone and I refuse to pay the price that folks want for good ones today. So yes whatever you have that brings you confidence is the "best choice" except when you want to try something different.

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from Steve C wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

It would be interesting how people arrived at their first big game rifle.I think hunters select their first rifle (and cartridge) based on "emotional" criteria as opposed to some kind of scientific analysis.I had money in my pocket when I went looking for a Marlin 336 in .375 Winchester in 1979. Not finding one, I "settled" for a Mod 70 Winchester in 25-06 (mfg 1977). Polar opposites.

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from dick mcplenty wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

I'm glad you agree with my findings on calibers dave.Elk and antelope tend to bring out the worst in hunters when being shot at.You'll find that hunting elk on public lands usually falls under two areas. Elk up close and elk on the run at longer range. I do believe that the .30cal and larger bullets have an edge in that wound channels are larger and provide more blood trail. The .338 does leave a great wound channel and subsequently a good blood trail in most cases.But all of this is moot,if you place your shot correctly in the first place.Elmer Keith is always sited as using heavy caliber/bullet combos in an effort to overcome bullet failures due to poor design and technology.However,elmer had access to partitions just like everybody else since 1949.He pimped the .338 and larger calibers because it was his reputation to do so,not because they were the only logical solution to big game hunting.

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from LowRecoil wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

I believe I have read enough on this thread and the previous one to make a courageous pronouncement: I have determined once and for all the absolute best caliber to take hunting. It's the caliber that your favorite rifle of the moment is chambered in.Scientific analysis holds very little sway in most of our choices for a sporting arm. We cling to a particular firearm for one of a variety of reasons: perhaps you pulled off a remarkable shot with it once; perhaps it's a rifle that Grandpa gave you when you were nine; maybe it's just so danged purty. Regardless, we rarely choose our weapons by consulting the ballistics tables and comparing empirical data on bullet penetration and expansion.I'm no different. I have two rifles that I use almost to the exclusion of all the others. I kid you not: these two are the right and left arms of the ungulate Angel of Death. To me, that is. To someone else, they may seem more effectively used as boat paddles.Be honest: how many of you will spend at least a day or two afield this year carrying an old .30-30, ballistics and "killing power" be damned? Yep, me too.

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Steve:I have two .280s, eighties vintage Sakos and agree with what you say in both entries for the most part. The problem I often encounter is that the elk does not meet the criteria you specify. Thus I find myself reaching for a rifle/cartridge that I feel is more appropriate for long range encounters but can still stop a charging grizzley (some days it seems we have more griz than elk in Wyoming). This is where my .338 fits. And yes I do have a lot of rifles which I have purchased or had built from 1970 to 2006. I state this so you guys will not think that this ishawooa guy is totally full of shxx. All my guns have been shot...a lot...at many things and a fair number of animals.

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from Steve C wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

By the way, I only shoot a 280 Remington and would feel 100% confident in taking any elk alive given the proper shot. For me that equates to a) broadside or similar at b) 200yds or less c) with the proper bullet for those conditions and d) plenty of daylight left for tracking. If a B&C elk was at 250 yds quartering away, I take no shot. My rules.Different rules for a .338.

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from Steve C wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Every cartridge made falls into a category of anything from overkill and not enough depending on; 1) the species and 2) the situation.A 7mm (along with several others) is capable of successfully killing every land animal on earth given the proper bullet and placement, and allowing enough time for this to take effect."Margin of error" seems to be the key words here. Every hunter would like to believe they shoot in the field the same as they do on the range. This is sometimes not the case and that's where margin of error can help. But it's also where some hunters take a shot where they have no business doing so.

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from Matt in MN wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Mr. Dick McPlenty? lol

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

I hate being the first guy to comment but here goes anyway. Insofar as the McPlenty theory on all modern bullets of various calibers are more equal than in the past...maybe but certainly not equal. No doubt the 7x57 will penetrate with the efficiency of the .375, my .357 will penetrate about the same or better than my .44 mag or hot .45 Colt. From actual field experience I know which I would prefer and it ain't the little guy. Same goes for my .22-.250 (yep I know a guy who shot a nice bull once with this round for a one shot kill additionally read up on what P. O. had to say about the matter) versus .338 on elk, etc. Using the modern bullet rationale maybe the PH should consider a BAR in .243 and really blast the critter a bunch of times or maybe even a nice DPMS. I understand your desire to utilize the .338 on Maine deer. I have done the same thing on whitetails, mulies, and pronghorns just because I wanted to see what would happen (plus a little load testing plus Elmer shot a goat in Wyoming back in the seventies with his .338 and at the time I thought it was not kosher but later gave it a try anyway).There are all sorts of stories on the tremendous successes of various cartridges and bullets but also a vast array of yarns concerning miserable failures of the same rounds. Usually the circumstances and the shooter's abilities are the variance.I have a couple friends here in Wyoming who have elk hunted togather for over twenty years. One uses a Model 700 in .243 with factory loads and the other has a No. 1 in .375 H & H with his handloads. They argue all the way to the mountains about which is the best elk cartridge. They argue all the way home a few days later...each with his bull in the back of the pickup. Use what works for you.

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from John B wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

In the end, it all boils down to shot placement and proper bullet selection and performance. I once took a broadside shot at a small black bear with my .375 but instead of breaking down his shoulders I took a lung shot. There was no bullet recovery as I saw it kick up dirt on his far side and I can only assume that there was little expansion. Although he was dead on his feet and didn't know it he almost ran over me before falling dead.Does the fact that he didn't go belly up at the sound of the muzzle blast make the .375 inadequate for black bear? Of course not; for that caliber, with a 300 grain bullet it was just bad bullet placement on my part.

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from Beekeeper wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

I can't remember who said it but here goes... A .375 H&H in the guts is a hit in the guts... period! There is no substitute for a well aimed and placed bullet.I too have encountered that odd animal over the years that for what ever reason did not wilt and ground itself after a well placed shot.Dave, you said it your self a month or so ago while discussing why you don't like to pull the trigger on a game as animal as much as you once did. The Game animals we hunt work hard to live in their world and are very tenacious of life.I hunt in the south in areas where a long shot is 75 yards. If an animal (deer or hog) makes it to cover or to water, it becomes a very long day indeed. I would like modify Ruark's famous recommendation, "Use enough gun for the place and animal you hunt"!

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from Harold wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Sure, if you want to use a .338, why not? However, as you pointed out, it's hardly needed and alot of guys really can't handle the recoil and blast. I use a 7X57 and a 257 Robert for most of my hunting and they have done just fine for everything Wyoming has to offer. For deer-sized animals, I have found out that bullets that open up quickly do better at anchoring animals quickly than those that "penetrate.

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from Robert Dawson wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Since death doesn't come by graduated degree, then why not use a 338 Win Mag instead of a 7mm-08? There really is no such thing as overkill when hunting. A hunter can mostly use whatever cartridge he wants as long as it's legal. Happy hunting, Dave Petzal!

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

I don't see any mention of the 300 Win Mg a ot not. Has the 338 replaced it. If i could handle the recoil of the 300 I would have one in a jif to take West. But that gun turns me around. I do believe the 300 to be a better all around one gun owner. But hunters attitudes and desires change as the weather. No teling what will be the next must have one of. Me the 06 is all I need for my hunting. As for Wolves, I will in a minute shot one if seen and just continue to walk.May not be 100% ethica, but neithernis the wolf. I believe we need to take a stand on them and eliminate as many as possible. If YNP has a kill ratio as stated and teh Elk herd is down 70, someone better take ntice and start shoting some. I will be glad to help out. Hey, what ever became of the deal to hire sharp-shooters to kill X#Elk in the Rocky Mtn National park, rather than let the Hunters in there and they pay to hunt. If we hire sharp shooters at l/2 Million $ you know who's gonna pay.I wold love to hunt near Estes Park in C0 as there are many town Elk there. The town frowns on any suggestion of a hunt, as the Elk are a grea tourist atraction, been there and there is many Elk at dawn and dusk. they love the golf courses and the shrubs at the homes in town.

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from Mike Reeder wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

Agree with every one who loves the Remington Mt. Rifle. When it first came out I was immediately smitten and couldn't wait to get my hands on one. I couldn't really afford it at the time but couldn't stand to do with out it. Once I got mine, I could never imagine letting it go. Last count I had something like 21 rifles and shotguns, but that old .270 Mt. Rifle is still my boon companion. I never did one thing to tune it, but it will shoot an honest minute of angle from the bench and seems to digest almost anything you feed it. In all the time I've had it it's never changed zero on me, and I've hunted with it in rain, snow, and blistering heat from Wyoming to the Mexican border. It's a pleasure to carry and flies to your shoulder like a good quail gun. Just a great, great factory rifle.

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

To some degree the hands of the western wolf states are tied by the feds. To see the changes coming go to the Wyoming Fish and Game web site. Looks like there will be legal killing in the forseeable future. We used to count 50-70 calves in a herd of 100 elk cows but since the reintroduction of the wonderful wolf we see 10-30 calves with the same number of mothers. The Fish and Game people tell you what they are programed to say to keep their jobs and feed their families. Insofar as camping in griz country we take extra precautions expecially when we leave camp (food 100 yards from camp up a pole 10 feet off the ground 4 feet out from the tree, same for horse feed and snicker bars, etc), leave both ends of the tent open so old griz will wonder on through, and hobble and bell the horses left in camp so they can move if they have to. But like I said things are hopefully going to change soon since the wolf was delisted and maybe there even will be a griz season again in the somewhat distant future. Of course they will not legally allow enough of either species to be eradicated to really benefit the game animals, just enough to make us hunters feel better.

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

And who said P---y did not stink? Believe the Bears like as well as us. I cannot even think anyone could tame a Griz or become friends with them. That Idiot lived much longer than normal by playing hid-seak with the big Griz's. Belive I will stick to Elk/Mlies/Lopes and hope no Griz shows up for a feast. Some say that the Griz when he hears a shot, knows there's a free meal and he goes to the kill immediately.When I hunt the Rockies, we field dress immediately, then get the Hell out of Dodge to skinning house.If hunt the same general area the next couple days, have someone keep their eyes trained on the trails to the gut piles. I wanted a Griz sure would be a great place to place a stand about 30 ft up.But as a rule we don;t hunt the same areas but about every 4 days. Good hunting guys. Shoot-um-straight

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from Del in KS wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

W.A.Mtnhunter,She probably was, just seemed like such a waste. Now that you mention it. That bear was a real p---y eater.LMAO

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

I think both were kinda crazy. When you mess with fire you gonna get burned. Wild animals are just that WILD. You cannot train one to be a PET forever. If teh Anti's want to protect them, by all means, lets take them to the right place and turn them loose with no weapon. These Anti's need a job or a hobby and leave the hunters and mother Nature to worry about the wildlife. I don;t know what I would do if saw a Griz while hunting. I might shoot if had a good shot and right AMMO, but would prefer to have a BAck-up guy with enough firepower to take the Griz out. We have allowed humans to build in wildlife home range and they gonna give even more problems as they get use to people next door. Out in the Rockies, I think they should not allow people to build in wildlife feeding aeas. I read some place, that some states require at least 25 acres to build a home???? We've done a great job of displacing the wildlife. But someway the W-tail keeps growing in #'s. I try to cull our herds here at home, but they continue to grow or move in my feed plots. Good hunting guys. Shoot-um-straight and often.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

DelWhat makes you think that she was not as big an idiot as he was?

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

In Griz country, hikers and campers are advised to wear bells to warn grizzly bears of their approach. When you find bear scat, the best way to tell if it was a black bear or a grizzly bear is to look for the little bells.

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Clay, I agree, hunter should have let the bear alone for a few minutes, then killed it. Like my friends out west. They say the Wildlife guys don;t have any idea of # of Wolves and Griz's about, but way to many. In area I hunt, the animals kill off about 70% of new born. They have tried to get the game dept to allow a hunt for them but no luck. So these Ranchers protect their property and game the best they can. Shoot them both and leave be. Let the Coyotes and Foxes and etc.a feast. I might shoot a Wolf, but as i staed, I would want a back up with a cannon if shot a Griz. I understand from F&S that in upper Yellowstone that the two animals have reduced the Elk herd by 70% and no #'s available on the Lopes. I don;t think I would like to camp out in a tent in that area I hunt. Let Mother Nature handle the situation, its done ok till man decided to help out, or screw up. Maybe i will be lucky and see a Wolf this fall, and if one of my friends who owns the property is with me, can shoot a Griz.Here at Home, we do help Mother Nature with the Foxes and Coyotes, as they have done away with small game and birds. I use to see 2-3 Coveys of birds in a day.Now see none and very seldom see a rabbit, Plus Darm Hawks kill all the squirrels. That I plan to help eliminate here at home. Maybe some of us hunters need to go to or near Yellowstone and help reduce the problems.It's time WY, Montana and Utah wake up and solve this problem beforeanother man/girl ae eaten. But, that guy was a nut, too bad he did not understand wildlife enough to know you cannot make a house pet out of such animals. A Dog and cat is trouble enough, but they stay outside as well, helps kill undesireables and let me know when something is near the house so I can get my 357 quickly.I may carry some 220 gr ammo this trip, just in case its needed. Have a good week-in.O, better still, let the Anti's camp out in upper Yellowstone or Southern Montana, with no weapon but a tin can to rattle at the game.

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from Del in KS wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Too bad ol' Tim Treadwell (or was it Treadway) didn't have a hunter nearby when that brownie killed and ate he and the girlfriend. Oh well, what better way to be one with nature than by becoming a bear turd. Mother nature has a way of taking care of idiots. Too bad the girl was there.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Rocky Mtn HunterYou remind me of a story I was told by a Wildlife Biologist in Alaska. He was watching a Brown Bear hunter stalking a really nice size bear and noticed that there was a person running between him and the bear. It was one of those Green Peace guys and yeas the bear charged and the hunter dropped the bear just a few feet from him. Personally I agreed with the Biologist that the Hunter shot too soon!Now about California closing Cougar Hunting, California Joggers, YUM! YUM!

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Jim in Mo: I went to the webb site you posted and I agree with you. That is a bunch of bull. They cannot make me believe that Wolves will not kill Lopes and go after larger game. No doubt, the # of Wolves in YNP has increased and the Elk decreased due to elk killings by Wolves. I plan to hunt Montana this fall and if I see a wolf and can kill him I will. It's about time us hunters protect the game we enjoy hunting, and Wolves we don;t need. The Coyotes and Foxes will take care of the old and sick animals, we don;t need the Wolves. The same applies to the Griz Bear, too many. I doubt I would shoot a Griz unless had a back=up shooter, as never bear hunted and don;t know where to shhot other than between the eyes to shoot one. I hunt with folks in MT and they say many Bears and some Wolves been seen in areas we hunt. THey carry a 375 in their trucks all time plus a Encore in 300 win mag. I never ask if they killed any, as not my business. But have been told to shoot either I saw if I wanted to, or call them. Just hopefully see a nice Elk and good Mtn Mulie at shotable range and I will be happy, yep, the 30-06 /25-06/and the new MArlin 270 will go. I kinda figure this will be my last Rocky Mtn hunt as at 73 and poor health, it gets more difficult each time I go to get up early, hunt hard all day and little sleep. AS when I hunt, I hunt every second I;m in the woods. No nap time when hunting unless got a companion. I carry quality Nikon equiptment and glass a lot, amazing what you can see at l-2 miles away with good Bincs., Take care, shoot un-straight & often

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Firearms to me are like cloths, I don;t wear the same pants every day.Same with hunting. I use a different firearm for the game I hunt and the ammo that shoots best from that gun. Don;t skimp on ammo, buy the best available to hunt. Cheaper ammo is ok for pratice, but not on a $5K hunt. Can bet your last dollar that I will not buy Rem Core-lokts at Wal-marts for a Rocky Mtn hunt.Has been told to me by Remington, that they and I;m sure other mfgers as well, make different firearms and ammo for Walm-mart,as Wal-maart dictates the price they will pay. The ADL you see at Wal-marts now, is only available at Wal-marts, not your local dealer. Look at one and you will see that you don;t want one at any price.Some folks collect different items, guns I collect, never had too many and never will. But when hunting time comes,I do have special firearms for that hunt and ammo to match. Uze enough firepower, rather it be more than necessary than less. Have you ever tracked a W-tail all day???. When I spend hard earned $$$ for A Rocky Mtn Hunt, I want enough gun and ammo to drop that animal on the spot or close by. Yep, I use a 30-06 and a 25-06. As the two will do the job I want them to do if I do my part. As for a 338, it may be the better firearm, don;t know, but my 06 will kill a animal in its tracts at 345 yds using l80 gr Scrico's and the 25-06 will kill w-tails/mulie at 325 using Wincheser Ballastic in ll7 grs.If you pratice enough, you will know the hold over needed at different ranges, that's where a Rangefinder come into play. Those mtns and valleys and even the rolling plains out west will fool you, so you best range the game first.My first hunt for Lopes in 1999, I though the range was about l75 yds, so I held midway, fired and the bullet hit the dirt 5 ft in front of the animal, distance turned out to be 325 yds.Needless to say, a Rangefinder was bought as soon as I got home. And, a 30-06 with l80 gr Scricco;s will kill to 400 yds if you hold right. My deer last year at 345 yds, the bullet went fron left last rib to come out the right front shoulder, went completely thru the 220 lb deer. My first Elk was killed at l65 yards with a l65 gr Extended range bullet that Rem once made. I;m not a ammo sales person, but the Rem Bonded Scricco;s in l80 grs are great, they fly flat and far and do enough damage when they go thru that the game will fall if you place the shot correct. I hope to find out again come fall in KY or MT. The 25-06 works well here at home, but I got one of the new Marlin's in 270 on order, just another gun I want to try. A 300 Win _mag I would own if I was able to handle the recoil, but at l28 lbs ( down from l80 due to sickness) the 30-06 with wt in butt stock @near 10 lbs, I can handle like a 223 or 243. Plus, I TRUST the firearm, Ammo, and my ability with it. And, that's what it's all about. Learn your firearm and the ammo you use, if you don;t have faith in it, better buy another gun or pratice more. Shoot-um-straight and often. The old Gunslinger down south

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago
from Jim in Mo. wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Something went wrong

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Western big game hunters,Is this really good news? I've got my doubts.http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080303/ap_on_sc/pronghorn_wolves;_ylt=Alisggb6yT0jCmUAMaUJUQSs0NUE

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from sarg wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Way to go RockyMtnHunter , Let me know in May how it goes, we'll look at some motels around Pikeville,or Prestonsburg.. Depend which zone you drae.

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Sarg: After I saw the new Remington 770 and 715 which replaced the 710 I was sick. I called Remington and gave them my 2 cens worth ( what good , other than to me). They informed me that the ADL is yet available , but only to Walnart stores. So the ADL you saw is a hunk of junk compared to the older ADL's. In my opinion, this new MArlin XL7 will eat Rem. alive on cheaper priced firearms. If Rem. starts mfgering the BDL and CDL as they did the 770 and ADL for Walmart;s then our other US mfgers will make great enrows in sales. The New Savages are much improved in looks. I always thought they had quality for the $$ now they got the quality and the beauty. They got one model that is Walnut and looks like the Rem 700 BDL at about 30% less than the BDL. I do have a KL7 Marlin on order in 270, but dealers tell me they got so many back-orders it may take a yr to fill the demand. Also, Remington has come out with a new trigger, and will retro-fit the present 700's we got, but cost is about 100 bucks, and they in short supply as well.My CDL is at 4 lbs, and it's fine for me hunting, but I would like 2 l/2lbs for bench pratice. O well, will put 3 shots in a 2" spread at 200 yds and thats good enough so far.I got a Custom Built Mauser in 30-06 with 12oz pull, much too light for hunting, ok on bench, but I;m afraid to go hunting with it for that reason, plus its my show and tell gun and prefer to not scratch it up.Some excuse, but kinda figure my estate will be worth a tad more some day, as appears I;m gonna spend all my cash on hunting and firearms. Now,wonder what I will see I gotta have after the XL7 arrives. Another advantage for a new firearm with me is, I always kill game on the first hunt I go on with a new gun. On this 700 CDL in 06, it has been used to shoot at animals 5 times, and 5 kills , all one shot.The Old Southern Gun Slinger:::: Hey, Sarg. got my Applications in the mail, now a waiting game for about 2 months.I;m gonna E-mail you in a nite or so, need more info from you, OK. Take care.Shoot-um-straight and often.

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from sarg wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Mark1, you are absolutly correct about hollow point bullets, take the 168gr hpbt in .308, should never be used on larger game. The expansion in not right for a proper kill. (Here we go again). as Clay can verify, they are great at target out to 600 or 1000 yds. People should really consider the game when selecting bullet type.

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from Blue Ox wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Morning, GREG!There's time enough for sleep in the grave.

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from GREG wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Oh I dont sleep much.

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from GREG wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Hell there has to be another drunk bastard out there, come on!

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from GREG wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Hell you guys know more about calibers ,powder loads, yadda, yadda, yadda> I have learned so much from yall you are going to get me into massive trouble on the home front! I now want different calibers for comparison just to play with instead of utilitarian guns for the purpose of puttin meat in the freezer!Mr. Petzal I will hold you personally responsible for the repercussions. I may even give the Lady of the house the blog to let her tell you, If we can still afford it after my first .338! so beware!!LOL

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from sarg wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Rockymtnhunter, I once had a 336 in .35Rem. loved the gun, Had very pretty wood and shot great, but I only wanted one gun to hunt deer so I sold it and bought my Rem.700. I should have kept the 336 and still bought the Rem. which I could have,but just wasn't thinking. I would load 158gr. ,357 bullets in the 336, shot good with these also. I like the Rem much better. I was at (Yes, Walmart ) Walmart looking at guns again this afternoon in Ashland, Still dont like the new 700 ADL, Well I'm thinking about bed, going to get up tomorrow and go to the Armory, the Boys are in now but leave for WI. Monday for a couple weeks before going to #$@^%&*(*^$ For a year. sure going to miss the guys being a small town....

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Hey Shaky Sir you got me thinking on this. I was thinking along the line that a Leopard didn’t lose its spots. Instead what I realize what you’re saying is that Wildcats get Citizenships too!Ok, I’ll buy that! By the way here is some info on SAAMI.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporting_Arms_and_Ammunition_Manufacturers%27_InstituteSAAMI was founded in 1926 at the behest of the US government, with a charter to create standards, coordinate technical data, and promote firearms safety.[1] For example, they publish a list of Unsafe Arms and Ammunition Combinations which details situations where a smaller cartridge may fit in a firearms designed for a larger cartridge, but would be unsafe to use.[2] For example a .44 Magnum cartridge will chamber in a .45 Colt firearm but operates at a higher pressure and would be unsafe. SAAMI is an accredited standards developer for the American National Standards Institute (ANSI).

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

When I started reloading back in the early 70's, Hornady was a superb paper puncher. The "boys" that were serious about killing game used "Sierra" almost exclusively. Of course you had the guys that thought if it wasn't "Silver Tip", you were just wasting time!My caliber of choice is the .270 Win. I've tried lots of different bullets from 90 grain HP's to 160 Nosler Partitions! After much trial and error, I shoot the Sierra 130 gr BTSP and approximate factory loadings! A well placed shot may not drop a deer in it's tracks, but if you go to where they were standing when you fired, normally you can see them from there! I don't mind a 40 yard tracking job!Bubba

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from Mark-1 wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

I’m very careful when I use “hollow points”. Some are designed for varmints. Others are designed for big game hunting then there are those for targets. It sounds as if the fellow having problems with serrias for hunting was using Match King target bullets for hunting. Attention to detail! Attention to detail!I’ve had extremely good hunting with Serria Game King bullets over the years in 140-grain 7mm’s and 225-grain 35-caliber.

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from sarg wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

WamtnHunter, no doubt a large exit or entrance will bring down a nd bleed out an animal for a kill, some how I never figured on an animal to bleed out except when bow hunting. I am probable old fashioned in my beliefs but I grew up with the old writes who always tried to do the damage inside the carcus. I,ve always was taught the bullet should enter, expand to twice its size, retain it's mas and then we always did out the slug and compare to last shot. I know that the way a bullet performs depend on where it hit,s Thats why placement is important to the performanceof the slug. This year I loaded some 150gr. ,.308 round nose bullets for the .308 Win. I took a nice doe with one hitting high on the back. Deer did not run, but I was not really pleased with the large exit wound.. I wish I had hit lower so I could actually see what the bullet was capable of. Clay told me to try 130gr. this year and I believe at the range and all, this would do great. I've never hunted Elk or bear, had I done so I might change my feeling on exit wounds and larger bullets.I wouldn't hesitate to use a .338 , or 7mm08 on deer or lrger animals like where you live and hunt, still believe in bullet placement. You have a good day..

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from Shaky wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Clay, old buddy, the 25/06, 22/250, 35 Whelen, 7/08, .243, .244,.358, and a half dozen more standard calibers were wildcats at one time, but are no longer. The criteria we use for designating a wildcat is that SAAMI has not recognized a standard measurment and pressure limit. Presented to SAAMI in 1998 by A-Square, SAAMI issued standard measurements and a pressure level of 53000lb, thereby legitimizing the .338/06-A-Square. My old .338/06 was built on a 98 Mouser action and was a wildcat, a bit short to seat the bullets where I wanted them. This one is built on a 700 Rem., chambered A-Square,STANDARD, not a wildcat.

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Clay,Why you dumpin' on Shaky? As far as I'm concerned the 338/06 is no longer a wildcat. Weatherby picked it up and SAAMI approved so whats the deal?

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

In 45+ yrs., I have never had a Nosler Partition fail, period!!!However, I have every Siera HP Boatail fail on big game. They never opened up and went straight through with on exception. I neck shot a mulie at aprox. 300 yds with 139 grain and it lodged under the skin after penatrating the Spine. If I hadn't hit bone it would have never dropped the deer. The bullet was so perfectly formed it could be reloaded again if I chose. That was in the 1965-75 era. I have always used any thing but Sierra since. I under stand they make a good bullet for hunting now. I always used them for benchrest 100 to 1000yds but never after again for hunting. Weatherby always used partition bullets and I figured the knew what they were doing. 340, 270 and 257 all were outstanding rifles that they made and new they cost me about $368 new with a 26 in barrel. I bought the 340 for bear, but my friend were getting one shot kills with a 30-06(165gr. Barnes all copper) I think thats the way to go because you get a better BC in a 130gr. 270WSW than a 150gr.John whiteI'm now interested in trying the

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

AS most of you know my thoughts on calibers, 30-06's; I do believe you can use to large a bullet as well as to small. Like Sarg said, use a bullet that opens up and flares out and destroys the vitals. I;m guilty of using to large a bullet due to the fact I hunt the Rockies and hunt both Elk and Mule Deer at same time. I forget sometimes when i arrive home and when w-tail season opens I continue to use the l80's. This psat fall i shot a Buck at 270 yds using the l80 gr Scricco's, the bullet entered about 2" above teh top of the rigfht foreleg and exited the same on teh left side. The bullet also made hamberger out of his Vitals. That deer, dumped a 5 ft high fence, ran over 80 yds, never saw a drop of blood, but when my Son got to the deer,blood was coming out of both holes like a water hose, plus from his nose and mouth. Now, did I use to much bullet or not? Both legs were broken as well, how it ran at all beats me. With that same gun and ammo in Mt 2 weeks earlier,I shot a 4 x 4 at 345 yds, bullet entered his rear left rib about 5 " below his back bone and went all way thru the deer and out his right front shoulder.Yep, he fell in his tracts. So in 2 different cases same gun and ammo with two complete different success stories. I do believe the last one ran on pure fright ashe was standing brodside to me and had to make the fence jump and run. No tell me what gr bullet I should have used in each case or did i use the correct one? I am a firm believer in trust in your ability and the fiearm. This 700 CDL just feels correct to me, after I added 2 lb wt to butt and got the gun at 10 lbs. with a 4lb trigger. And, I pratice a lot before I head West. Just hope I can draw again as age catching up.Hey, any you guys hunted Elk in KY. I'm applying thanks to Sarg, hopefully will draw and be near home and save a few $$ to buy the new Marlin on order in 270????? Can you believe that? after my sermons on 06's? but I want to try the 270 on Lopes in WY.I know how the man felt who sold his 30-30, I did the same thing, but a few years ago, ran into a guy needing $ and bought a like new 336 in 30-30. This one I will keep as it's my woods gun, open sights. Hopefully can get my wife to use it this fall and put her shotgun aside. Shoot-um-straight and often.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Hey Shaky338-06 is not a Wildcat?O’Brother here we go again!From Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaThe .338-06 is a wildcat cartridge based on the .30-06. It allows heavier .338 caliber bullets to be used from the .30-06 non-belted case. This is a better choice for heavy bodied game such as moose, elk, and black bear than the .30-06. 338 caliber bullets became more widely available after the introduction in the late 1950s of the .338 Winchester Magnum cartridge, frequently chambered in the Winchester Model 70 rifle. The .338-06 maintains much of the benefits of the .338 Magnum cartridge but has substantially less recoil, makes more efficient use of powder, and allows use of widely available .30-06 commercial and military cases. The trade off though, is less available range due to reduced muzzle velocity. It is similar in concept to .333 OKH as well as the .35 Whelen, which also use the .30-06 brass case as a basic for the cartridge.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

David PetzalFirst of all, you have my most humble apology!The .340 Weatherby is in fact a .338 on steroids and not only you can add moose to that list and 1” inch thick plate Steel may I add! So you took your .338 to Africa in 1987 and took a dozen antelope of various types plus several crocodiles? I would have liked to see your reactions on your first African Trophy and I bet it was a dandy too! Speaking of one inch plate steel, my Brother has a 340 Weatherby and shot several holes thru it. So I decided, well if he can do it with a 340 Weatherby, my 338 Win Mag might do it too, WRONG! Talk about having a 250 grain Nosler Partition whistle over your head WOW! That 200+ fps does make a difference!

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Mark-1,I was going to make the very same post but thought better cause as a kid I'd throw rocks at birds when I ran out of BB's. Also if I'm not mistaken about you or another mark, WHERE'S MY PIZZA!

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

SargeYou are correct in the usual definition of a sucking chest wound.However, if you ventillate the chest cavity above the diaphram ON BOTH SIDES, there is a better chance that both lungs will collapse. Elk have thick hides with a good layer of fat during hunting season and a small diameter hole in one side can be covered up and sealed by the shifting hide rendering the lungs operable. You put a .35 caliber hole on both sides and the air will go out of that dude!To each his own. That has been my experience. I have only shot one elk that I didn't recover in short order. I hit him high on the shoulder and didn't hit the spine obviously. We blood trailed him for over a mile, mostly on hands and knees. I did not take a follow up shot because I was confident he would fall over any second. Wrong! Another mistake that I never repeated.

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from sarg wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Hey, anyone of you guys seen the muzzleloading barrel for the Mossburg 500 shotguns? Midway USA has them. Anyone tried one yet??

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from sarg wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

WAMTNHUNTER, of course you are more adept to see sucking chest wounds, Exit holes, etc in combat, everyone is shooting FMJ bullets Not really made for proper expansion. I still say older writers would not want a bullet that exited the animal. a bullet does not have to expand to exit an animal, just be too heavy or too fast for the size critter you are shooting. Simple isn't it?

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from sarg wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Wamtnhunter, Not all sucking chest wounds do not have an exit, but what yousee is actually the entrance wound usually from shrapel( didn't spell that right did I?) A sucking chest wound is where something has entered the lungs.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

SargI have to disagree with you on the bullet exit situation. As an ol' Sarg you know how long something survives with a sucking chest wound.A bullet that will penetrate the animal leaving a good wound channel through vitals will result in vittles every time. A solid hit with exit above the diaphram will collapse lungs. A bullet with a small diameter entry and exit wound won't provide enough "ventillation" to collapse lungs and provide a good blood trail. If one uses a small diameter rapidly expanding bullet, the shot placement better be where vital organ destruction is complete. Else get out your tracking gear.....

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from Mark-1 wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Denny must be stern fellow and hunts with a stone-tip’d spear and an atlatl, wearing animal skins.That’s a bit too far the other way on the argument, Guy.

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from sarg wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Don't like for bullets to exit..

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from sarg wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Chev,Mark, Don't get me crying over the ones I let get away,, Can't go back and pick them up.. I sold one of the nicest Mauser in 7x57 get away. Sold it for $85.00. I still cry when I think of it..

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from Mark-1 wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

[Sob! Choke!] I too had one of the first Remington Mountain Rifles in 7 x 57.Like a dummy I traded it in on a 220 Swift [sob]. The Mountain was what previous bloggers claim. Mine would put 140 and 160 grain handloads into an inch. It would clover leaf 115-grain hollow points for woodchucks at 3015 fps [choke].Sob! It’s Karma. Bad Karma!

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from Chev Jim wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

I know how Ishawooa must miss that Remington Mountain Rifle! I think this is one of the best rifles ever built. It's light, quick handling, and highly accurate. Yes, it's a push-feed action, but it has never failed to push and feed! Mine is in .30/06 and it will do .5- to .75-inch groups at 100 yards for three shots. I bought it at a Rod and Gun Club in Germany and it came from the factory with a less than three-pound trigger pull! Luckily, it wasn't affected by any recalls for faulty trigger or safety mechanisms. I topped mine with one of the LAST Weaver 2X-7X variable scopes, one of the El Paso ones, which is set in Redfield rings on two-piece bases. By the way, I found a great way to repair any scratches you got on a polymer finish: I use a little auto wax on terry cloth to polish out the scratch. The finish is a little shiny from the polishing, so I get a cotton ball, dampen it, and lightly dip it into some pumice dust. I gently polish the finish where the auto wax was applied, and then I have restored the finish to its original, satin finish! If you don't live near a volcano, you can probably get the pumice dust from your wife! I couldn't trade this Remington for anything. When you get older, you will tend to appreciate the lighter rifles a lot more, and you'll see that old Jack was right about most factory rifles being too heavy. It's not such a big deal if you're on horseback or you have a gun bearer, but still hunting with a heavy rifle gets tiring pretty quick!

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from sarg wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Dave, sorry, I forgot to comment on the good info, teaching women how to hold their Rifle, placeing the elbow closer to the body. This would also apply to men. In the Army, we would place the elbow on our ammo pouches on our web belt for a steady hold. really help control wobble... Good job, keep it up....Gary Smith(sarg)

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from sarg wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Hey Dave Petzal, Post some more pic's of the S/W I-Bolt you wrote about in this Month's F/S magazine... You didn't show a good shot of the rifle... very Interesting.. Keep up the good work.Gary Smith (sarg)

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from denny wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Wow , I'm amazed at your choice of convenience over skill. I can't track so I'll use a different bullet so I can mess up this animal internally and make it bleed more so I can find it easier. Hey heres and idea, why not just buy a .50 caliber machine gun. That way even if it does survive the initial shock of getting shot and the injuries it sustains and runs into the shrubbery you can just shoot down all the trees and bushes so it can't hide no more. Its bad enough that people have altered the natural odds by using firearms but teaching people ways to make it even easier for people is just sick. I guess its "give me convenience or give me death" for a lot you people, grow some balls and hunt using your own strength and smarts.

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from Shaky wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Although not common, the .338-06 is not a wildcat. It was presented to SAAMI by A-Square, and sudsequently, accepted as a standard caliber in 1998. It is currently loaded commercially by Weatherby and Nosler and possibly others. Weatherby made rifles chambered for the round for a time, but have discontinued, although there are rumers they intend a limited run.I just acquired my second rifle in .338-06, and can speak from experience of the rounds effectivness. It ROCKS!!. I will use on a far northern hunt this fall and (if I survive), will be able to tell you more about what it's performance was on the larger game of north America.On the .338 Win.: I baught my first one in 1966, a pre'64 win. Alaskan. That was the only rifle that ever hurt me to shoot. It took me over a year to recover from the flinches, and when I sold it to a friend I insisted he shoot it several times before he baught it. He loves that rifle and shoots it often, and is amazingly accurate with it. It just plain didn't fit me, so it hurt. I'm happy for both of them, but, I wouldn't take it back as a gift. On the other hand, I baught a Rem.700 custom shop .338 Win. last summer, planning a northern hunt, and put it in a Hogue stock equiped with their mushy recoil pad, and sighted it in over a Lead Sled, then proceded to shoot in varying hunting positions. Load, hot (69gr.IMR4350,Hor.225gr. bullet).I ran 34rnds. through it the first day, and felt no more abused than I would with my '06, and, by the way, that rifle shoots,prone I put 4@.375 with the 5th streching the group to 1.25 in.On the designer bullets, all of them: I will start shooting them when we are presented with designer animals to shoot. I have not found a need to spend 1-2 bucks on every shot I fire. If thats your choice, that's fine with me, but I don't intend to do it. Yes maybe I'm cheap, but I'm happy this way.

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Another cartridge that suffered from market failure and a lack of adequate bullets which about equaled the .338 is the 8 mm Remington. Its offspring, the 7 mm STW and the 416 Rem, offer sterling performance in their own right. In fact the 8 mm still has a small following of very satisfied shooters. I saw a near mint M-700 not to long ago which I dearly wanted to buy. There was no way the owner would sell it because he shot fantastic groups at the local range. Unbelievably he was not a hunter. No doubt this is why the appearance of the old rifle was exceptional. In typical Big Green fashion it is too bad the big 8 never caught on. Someone once told me that they work extraordinarily well on crocodiles but I cannot vouch for that statement.

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from Bernie Kuntz wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

I am surprised at the negative comments about Nosler Partitions. My experience with the bullet, going back 45 years, does not coincide. I have shot animals ranging from pronghorns and deer to grizzlies, Alaskan brown bears, bison, black bears, black wildebeast, elk, Shiras and Alaska/Yukon moose and never have had a failure. This includes cartridges ranging from .25/06 to .375 H & H. I also am a Hornady fan--the "old-fashioned" spire-point is a terrific bullet. Never have had one fail me. I use a few other brand of bullets but 95 percent of my handloads are Nosler Partitions and Hornady Spire-Points, now I think they are called Inter-locks. Manufacturers can make all the new-fangled super bullets they wish, I remain an old "throw-back" and will stick to what has worked for me for the last 45 years.

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from phil graver wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

The only time i ever used a .338 was when i hit the Mich elk lottery. My .257 Roberts seemed a bit small, so i borrowed Joe's .338. i practiced and it worked great. The 4x5 dropped in his tracks from two shots about 6 inches apart. At the first, thru the heart,right where the DNR said to shoot,it flinched. At the second,higher in the shoulder, it sagged to the ground where it had stood. i like .338s!

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from BA wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Del in KsI'm glad you haven't had the same experiences with partitions that we did. When these failures happened to us was in the 70's. After paying premium prices to hunt out of state deer, antelope, and elk, we were pretty disgusted with their performance.Three years ago all I could find at the time for my 6mm Rem was Fed 100 gr partitions, so I thought well maybe they've improved by now, so I bought them. I then shot a forked horn through the heart, it turned and started going up the hill. So I shot it in the rump right alongside the tail. That second shot stopped it, but it was still poor performance. It made a fist sized hole next to the tail and the rear core only penetrated 6 more inches. In the following 2 years I shot 100 gr Hornady Interlocks and killed 4 bucks, one shot each, breaking at least one shoulder bone and destroyed the lungs on each one with complete penetration. None of the last four went more than 10 yards and had trouble getting that far. The Interlocks did not separate from the core. All, including the one shot with the partitions were less than 100 yards. I'm glad the partitions work for you, but you couldn't pay me to use another one. I could go on and tell you more stories like this but it's not necessary. Thanks for the feedback.

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from Dick Mcplenty wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

I've never seen a partition fail EVER and I've seen hundreds of deer elk and antelope shot with the partition. There's no voodoo science to them at all.The front half of the partition is no differant than any other bullet and is softer then the bottom half and in many cases softer then other cup and core designs,which does nothing but insure even better exspansion.Nosler claims full exspansion down to 1900fps impact velocities.But I've recovered partitions from dead elk that had impact velocities down in the 1600fps range,and the exspanded recovered bullets were nearly double original diameter...Trying to contribute bullet failure to animals that you didn't recover,is meaningless. There's too many variables present to even begin blaming the bullet.I've seen whitetail doe's run 300 and 400 yards with softball size exit wounds.If I hadn't recovered these deer,should I have blamed it on bullet failure?

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from Mark-1 wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

Doc,Ya put a 338 hole through an animal, it goes down.Europeans and African hunters for the most part believe in "solid" bullets that go through an animal for that reason. Of course, these hunters are excellent trackers or they have pro trackers with them.I hate to write this, we American hunting types, in comparison, are too range and ATV bound for our own good. We want "shots" in lieu of learning good hunting skills.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

The problem, as I see it, is that bullets made and loaded in the .338 caliber are not intended for animals that weigh less than 300 pounds. Their jackets are thicker, they open more slowly and they don't do a hell of a lot of damage on less than abnormal sized white tails. I have killed white tailed deer with more than a dozen cartridges and 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips out of an 06 up to 125 yards and possibly farther if I could just find somewhere to shoot one from those distances make deer drop... now... and are deader than the ghost of bruised shoulders past.

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from sarg wrote 6 years 7 weeks ago

SteveC,I think what some on this blog are gettig at is as you say enough light to track, This of course does not always present itself, so they shoot something to prevent tracking due to light and terrain conditions.. Useing enough bullet weight but not really overkill(There,s that word again)...

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Dave:Where do you hold on a croc? Can one expect to make a "Texas heart shot" on this animal with a .338 and a properly constructed bullet? What is the next step if the wounded but enraged critter makes it to the water? I suppose I have not watched enough Outdoor Network crocodile hunts although I vaguely remember a few. Obviously I have never encountered one in Wyoming but have seen aligators in Mississippi. Would a 7 x 57 with a modern bullet accomplish the same outcome? As I remember Crocodile Dundee packed a .303 SMLE and a huge knife. Please enlighten.

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from David wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Just like I said in the other Blog "It all Depends"

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from Dave Petzal wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

To Clay Cooper: No, I meant that particular rifle. I got my first .338 in 1976. In NA, I've killed whitetails, mule deer, elk, black bear, caribou, and prairie dogs with it. If you want to consider the .340 Weatherby a .338 on steroids you can add moose to that list. Took a .338 to Africa in 1987 and took a dozen antelope of various types plus several crocodiles.

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Chev Jim:I wish you had not brought up the Rem Mt rifle. Just last night I was thinking about the one that I purchased probably the first year they hit the market. It was a .280 and had all of the qualities that you described and was exceedingly accurate. A few years went by and I managed to buy a couple other .280's that were "purtier". I let the Mt Rifle go on the trade. What I did not consider was the extra weight of the two new rifles, they were no more accurate than the Remington, but the serial numbers were only two digits apart. Big deal. Today I would probably trade both of them for the little Remington.I sure miss that rifle...again the gun trader's lament.

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from Zermoid wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

I shoot 6.5 Swede and 30-30 in PA, have only had to look for 3 deer, and they were within 75 yds of where they were hit. Aim true and they drop like a rock, of the 3 I had to find one was hit a little to far back, went thru liver and gut. One was hit thru the back of both lungs just ahead of the liver and passed thru. And the last was hit with a snap shot (yes I should have aimed better but it was in thick brush and running, now or never thing) thru the guts and lodging in the far side back leg, ruined a lot of the ham with that shot!If you sever the spine or take out the heart and lungs they don't go nowhere!

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from Chev Jim wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

All kidding aside, I think it's perfectly all right if someone wants to hunt deer with a .338 magnum, or a .416 for that matter. It's really a matter of what rifle in your rack do you trust more than any other, that you feel most comfortable with, that you believe could get you out of a pinch with an enraged moose or grizzly. I remember moving up to a .300 Weatherby when I didn't feel that the .270 Winchester killed quickly enough. It wasn't the caliber, though--it was the bullets. Back in the late 1960s, I was shooting Hornady 130-grainers with fairly heavy jackets. I shot a 10-pointer about 20 yards away, with the first shot going just below his eye--I couldn't see his body behind the tall grass! He got up and I shot him four more times. He ran only 30 yards before collapsing, pumped up with adrenaline as he was, but I had expected those bullets to put him like they were death rays! I also didn't really like my rifle, which was a post-64 Model 70. I was young, and nobody at the gun club told me that the Model 70 line was undergoing radical revision. It was about a two-MOA rifle for the most part, was ugly, and the bolt was very stiff to work. With proper handloads, you could squeeze one-inch groups out of it. My "go-to" rifle now is a Model 700 Remington Mountain Rifle in .30/06, which I love because of its light weight, its looks, and its accuracy--it will shoot half-inch groups with most ammo at 100 yards. I have a Model 70 in .416 that I hate, because of the stock inletting around the barrel. I plan to get this fixed. I think guns are like cars--you love some because they're so reliable, and you hate others that have become "repair shop queens." So, yes, I think it's OK to take any adequate caliber to the game fields, although I prefer to match the rifle to the game, and save myself any unnecessary punishment. We know our Dave P. does it because he simply wants to do it--not because he thinks anything less than a .338 is inadequate for deer--and because the ghost of Elmer Keith probably filled his bedroom with cigar smoke!

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from 007 wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Clay, I thought about the .338 Federal/.338-08 but the '06 has been around much longer and should have all of the bugs worked out by now. I also think it would be the better round for black bear under less than perfect conditions or larger antlered game, hopefully one day. I already have a .308 anyway and was looking for something to fill a niche somewhere around it and my .300 Win. Mag. so I thought the '06 was the best choice. Too, I just like unusual calibers and don't know anybody else that has one.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

One more thing, if you cannot knock down a Caribou (BOO) with a 270 with a Hornady 130 grain soft point with one shot? You got a real problem shooter!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

007So you’re building a 338-06, KOOL! By the way, Barnes makes a 160 grain bullet in 338 diameter now. 19 rounds on an Elk? Talk about BUCK FEVER and/or sights are really off!!! Not going to go there? 338 Federal vs 338-06? I’ll pick the 338-06 over the 338 Federal any day and its test proven by golly!!! The only advantage of a 338 Federal is only if you want a sub range rifle and your recoil sensitive! You’ll have to really pump it up to get near a 06 case with more powder to match the 338 bore! That why we call the 308 a 30-06 short kind of like comparing 22 short to a 22 long rifle!

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Dave,I would love to see your breakdown of all the different hunting bullets. For example what has been your experience with the Nosler Partition?

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from Brian wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

I own the .243/.257/.270/30.06/7remmag/.444 marlin; damned if I can tell much difference at resonable ranges, on the hand I would cry if somoene made me live with only one caliber of rifle. I'm glad we the freedom to worry about differences between all the different rifle calibers.

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from Del in Ks wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

BAI've shot critters from Caribou to coyotes with Partitions ranging from 6 mm to 358 cal. and never lost one yet. Last years big 8 pt MO whitetail went 20 yards and piled up after a 100 gr 2506 partition went thru both lungs. That was about the farthest anything has made it to date. However, because of better BC I expect to shoot Barnes bullets next fall.

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from Del in Ks wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

BAI've shot critters from Caribou to coyotes with Partitions ranging from 6 mm to 358 cal. and never lost one yet. Last years big 8 pt MO whitetail went 20 yards and piled up after a 100 gr 2506 partition went thru both lungs. That was about the farthest anything has made it to date. However, because of better BC I expect to shoot Barnes bullets next fall.

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from Del in Ks wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Dave,In all your travels have you ever seen a .14 caliber centerfire? Ray Smith an old WWII navy diver and retired mechanical engineer was also a prairie dog fanatic. Ray built rifles in his basement in Overland Park Ks until his death a few years ago. He built my 6mmX284 win. While at his shop Ray showed me a 14 centerfire he made up. Ray said he wanted to see that P-dog turn to vapor thru his scope and he needed a gun with high velocity and low recoil. If memory serves he used a Rem Mdl 7 action and Shilen match grade barrel. He bought bullet making equipment from Corbin and gave me one of the jacketed HP bullets he made. It looked about the size of a no 2 pencil lead without the wood. Clymer made the chamber reamer. I think Ray necked down a 222 Rem. but not sure. Alas, the old timer passed before I got to find out how his new toy worked in the field. Must of been a smokin' fast bullet.

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from BA wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

For the life of me I cannot understand how people can be loyal to the Nosler Partition when it has proven time and again that it is not 100% reliable on game. If you want certain reliability, load the Swift A-frame, Swift Scirocco, Nosler Accubond, or the Barnes Triple Shock, or the Speer Grand Slam all are proven 99% reliable. Nosler Partitions are not. Period. They are the result of too much gunwriter hype. Believe me, my family has had to track too many animals and some of them were never found. Why would anyone want to take a chance. In fact I'll take a Hornady Interlock over any Nosler Partition for reliability. I consider partitions to be voodoo science. There demise is long overdue. I'd even take a Sierra Gameking over a partition, at least I'd know that jacket separation was pretty much inevitable. With the partition nothing is certain. It either goes straight through like someone mentioned or it blows the front core on contact and the rear core now destablilized, can go any direction. Very poor reliability in my estimation. I guess the 338 would kill an animal with just about any bullet out there because of it's raw power and authority, but this is certainly not true of lesser calibers. With so many good bullets on the market, why anyone would stoop to the partition is beyond me. It must be an addiction.

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Concerning the 19 rounds shot at one bull, I once heard the same story about a local guy who I sort of knew. I had watched him shoot at a remote range in the desert one day. He had a new Ruger M-77 in .338 which he had won at the Elks Foundation dinner. It was one of those early models with the rather thin and light synthetic stock with virtually no recoil pad to speak of. My observation was that it was kicking the hell out of him with factory loads and his groups were pie plate of angle. Anyway after hearing the 13, 17, or 19 shot story depending on who was doing the telling I encountered him on the street one day. He replied that no in fact he had only fired eight times. The first bullet hit the bull's body somewhere at about 150 yards and it hauled butt. He continued to blaze away sometimes hitting somewhere and sometimes missing. After reloading a couple times to continue this process the poor bull finally gave it up. The guy went back to his '06 after that swearing that the .338 was not worth a whit for anything. Of course he had owned the '06 for about 20 years and could drive tacks with it. I think we all see the moral here.

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from Mark-1 wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

I grew from the sub-30 cal deer rifles to the medium bores in some kind of natural progression like some other blogger-mouths. The medium bores became the major factor in my hunting after the smallest animal I was hunting was 300-lbs. Although I could kill elk and caribou [BTW I never thought caribou are easy to anchor] with 30 and 7mm bullets I liked the way 338 and 35 cal bullets overwhelm the animals. These big bullets are the only way to go when hunting the hairy mean stuff.I guess the 200 and 210 grain bullets in 338 and 35 caliber are OK if you want to hunt deer, but I found nothing better than a good 225 grain bullet for 90% hunting. For the mean stuff I go with 250-grain bullets.I tried the Noslers and have seen them used, and frankly I find they lack any real advantage over the mundane Speer, Serria or Hornady’s. I’ve yet to try the Barnes or Sirocco’s.I’ve not found the recoil in 338 Mag or 35 Whelen to be a terror although none of these medium bores are plinking guns.I insist a person “backing me up” on the mean stuff have *real* shooting experience under dramatic hunting situations to hold on the brown and put the bullet in it. Any “back-up” is to pull my butt out because I [we] was/were sloppy or unlucky. Hesitating, navel-gazing thoughts don’t mix with in-your-face situations. Recreation ends. You just grow old, real old…and wondering just what the hell are you doing [t]here.With this in mind, given a choice in dramatic situations I want my 458 over my 35 Whelen. Big Bears, The Bug Grazers and Cats don’t accept apologies.

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Clay:I have never experienced the two hole exit of the Sierra 250 gr but have, in fact, found them in two pieces, or more, in bull elk shot at modest ranges. One such bull had an odd lump and a patch of white hair on his left shoulder. Upon digging into it I found a bit of arrow shaft and a broadhead against his shoulder bone. Amazingly it had healed quite well. Most of my utilization was in the late eighties or early nineties with this bullet so perhaps some of the ones I had were better bonded than the previous versions that you spoke of. Since then it has been Partitions or some 250 gr SBTs made by a local guy. The local guy produces beautiful bullets which appear to offer excellent performance. The problem is that bullet making is his hobby and he often works out of the country in the oil industry. This makes having a steady supply of good cheap bullets very questionable. They are similiar to the Partitions but with a higher BC. He continues to tell me that he intends to make some 300 gr .338 bullets but so far I have not seen the effort. Having never shot this heavy bullet I think it to be an interesting day at the range "just for kicks"...

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from Black Rifle Addict wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Concerning the .338/06 vs the new .338 Federal, is there much ballistic difference between the two? It seems that the .30/06 is the favored parent case of this wildcat cartridge, so why did federal base the factory load on the .308 case? Was their concern based on existing .338/06 rifles out there using factory loads fired in them, or a "shorter action is better" mentality?

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from Del in KS wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Dick McPlenty, have you ever met Puss Galore or Lotta Fagina?

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from Del in KS wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Nineteen rounds at one elk. Was that rifle belt fed or was he just fast at reloading!!!

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from Dick Mcplenty wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

On the subject of partitions in smaller calibers on smaller big game. Use light for caliber bullet weights. You end up getting a little more violent impact velocities under normal ranges,which makes the partition shed all of its front portion.Does some dramatic internal damage,but you're still going to have the normal exit wounds that partitions provide in most cases.

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from 007 wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Is this discussion limited only to the .338 Win. Mag? I am having a .338-06 built to be used as a foul weather white-tail rifle and a black bear rifle. Do I need that much horsepower for whitetails? No, my usual go-to is either a .257 Rbts. or a .308 Win. but I wanted something heavier for bad weather that would hit with authority assuming I do my part. It will be rifled to shoot 200 gr. Hdy. Interlocks and according to Gary Sitton, should be "a terror" for what I have planned for it. Too, as I get older, I find myself drawn more to heavy for caliber bullets so the 200 gr. .338-06 makes good sense to me. One of the best eastern whitetail hunters I ever knew swore by a .338 Win. Mag. because in his opinion it damaged less meat since the bullet expansion was not as great. He started with a .35 Remington, went to a .243, to a .30-06, finally to the .338.

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from Dr. Killdeer wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

19 .338 rounds!!! Who carries that much ammo hunting?!?!?

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Mr. Petzal, are you saying that you haven’t shot anything with a 338 yet? You disappoint me SirI was under the impression that all those Manufacturers would be sending you out on great hunting trips?? How can you talk up a product without first hand using it in actual situations?Perhaps if you get enough trigger time especially on jack rabbits in New Mexico, you’d be taking those big bucks giving you the hoof! 338 on jacks? NASTY! NASTY! NASTY!By the way, last season I was feeling abet sadistic and thinking of taking my 338 Win Mag out too

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

IshawooaAbout the Sierra 250 gr. Gamekings, practically every shot we made with them we had jacket separation. I shot a Caribou with a Sierra 250 gr. Gameking one hole in and two going out. I called Sierra back in 1990 and first was told no way but after the Bullet Tech found out who I was admitted it and said they where working on an adhesive/bonding agent that upon firing the heat would adhere the core to the jacket. However, the Sierra 250 gr. Gameking is one hell of a long range bullet I must agree!

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from sarg wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Dave, I,ve often heard that when a dangerous animal starts a charge , even when hit it will continue the motion, perhaps the Elk had already started to the woods when hit and even though you got a good hit, it continued .. Often deer when hit are disoriented for a few seconds when hit and may even run in circles until it decides just which way to go. I have been lucky while deer hunting, never to have to track an animal or shoot more than one shot with my Rem. 700 in.308. All shots have been at close range,50-75 yds. here in the hilly country of Kentucky.About shooting the .338 at deer, shoot it. Thats your business and if you are wanting to try one out, more power to you. That's the bueaty of having more than one Rifle. I lost a nice deer one time by taking an unfamiliar rifle to the woods, Didn't shoot at a nice deer once with a 6.5Jap because I really wasn't sure at 300 yds.. Waiting for deer to get closer and it just vanished. Had I took my .308 I would have taken the shot, knowing the charastics of the Rem. The bad part was, a friend warned me about taking an unfamiliar rifle that day.( Live and learn) Good subject, Keep up the good work...

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from retired waycar rider wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Dave, I've lived within 20 miles of the Hornady factory ever since they opened their door, never seen any need to use anything else for loading and shooting any critter. Here in the high plains you have a wide choice of where to shoot your game, along the rivers, short shots, or in the pine ridge, long shots. we can shoot whitetails or mule deer in the same pastures in most parts of the state where I hunt so good old Hordany's do the job.--love the new SST's. Remember you owe the game you're shooting at the courtesy of a quick clean demise, so lots of time spent at the range is the thing to do.

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Thanks Dave for mentioning the .338, again. This topic has been very informative with real life shooting/loading experiences mentioned!

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Dick:Only 40 grains difference between the 210 and the 250. I bet that sets off the .270 shooters who sweat whether to shoot a 130, 140, or 150. I just load the 130 Barnes (only cartridge I use Barnes in) and shoot it at everything since accuracy is phenominal as is penetration.BA:I will comment on your statement regarding the "little" Partitions. Although I have had splendid success with this bullet in the .300 and .338 I have noted that results were less than spectacular in the .243, .270, or .280. Don't think I ever used them in the '06. I have shot a couple bulls with them in 7 Rem Mag, since in Wyoming you have to follow Les Bowman's lead at one time or another, with one dropping immediately but the other required a followup shot since it was rather long range and the bullet struck him high and too far back to be perfect placement). I witnessed one hunter shoot an antelope numerous times with 6 mm Rem Partitions and the buck still went well over 100 yards. The numerous exits looked much like all of the entrance wounds. I have a sixties vintage Sako Deluxe .243 that has killed over 40 deer and antelope (some shot by others who I had loaned the rifle to, some first time deer or antelope hunters). Most of these kills were one shot dead in their tracks with 100 gr. Sierras, Ballistic Tips (which I don't like much due to the devastating explosive construction and nature except for the .338 version), or 105 gr. Speers. On the other hand I twice have seen a friend shoot 170 class mulies at 40 to 75 yards with a .300 Weatherby Fibermark shooting Partitions and both animals ran off until we found them 200 to 500 yards out in the desert. Same findings as far as wounds go. I think the fast little Partitions simply zip on through the critter without slowing enough to open up properly due to their specific construction.

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from BA wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

.338 Sierra SBT Gameking for lungshots on Deer, dynamite. Inch and a half exit hole. Just make sure you don't hit solid meat, or Woops, looks like jelly. Nosler Partitions failed us 75% of the time on 30-06 and smaller calibers, why take a chance on .338 size critters. Speer Grand Slams never failed us in any caliber. Swift A-frames never failed us. Accubond never failed us. Hornady Interlock never failed us. Partition? junk! I agree with "beware of the one gun man". Favorite calibers, 338 Win Mag, 270 WSM, 223 Rem. They're all good. Just pick the right bullets.

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from Chad Love wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Dick, I just have to ask: Is that your real name or a handle? Because if it is your real name your parents had either a savage sense of humor or a colossal naivete...

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from Dick Mcplenty wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Mostly its called mental masturbation. I've ran the 210's and 250's in the past because in my rifle they've shot to within less then an inch of each other with the same sight in. Then after shooting a number of animals with both and not seeing any advantage on smaller big game with the 210's,I simply stuck with 250's since I want performance on elk,which the 210 is no slouch.I use a rangefinder and a multi dot reticle.I don't shoot beyond 500 yards and honestly seldom need to shoot beyond 250 yards.With my set up the 250gr bullets work on antelope just as well as elk.The whole attraction to 250 gr bullets in .338,along with 175gr bullets in 7mm and 200gr bullets in .308,is penetration,even if you use standard cup and core bullets.Elmer was on to something with 250gr and 300gr bullets at modest 2600 to 2700fps velocities. They hold together even if they aren't premium and they usually exit. With premium bullets perfomance differances are really blurred. In comparing the 210gr partition to the 250gr partition,we're talking as much differance in lead or weight as a .22lr(40grs)and we're expecting to see earth shattering differances.Ain't going to happen.If it weren't for cheaper nosler 2nds(which aren't really cheap anymore,since they got greedy) I'd be shooting sierra or hornady bullets.I'm cheap.I still don't see the greatness in firing dollar bills at animals,each time I pull the trigger.

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Dick:Well done and reasonably stated. Personally in addition to the 250 gr. Partitions I have had unbelievably good success with simple ole Sierra 250 gr. Gamekings. Thinking back over the last few bulls I am not certain that one was superior to the other except the Sierra does come apart more readily as expected. I have made numerous one shot kills out to 325 or so with both of these bullets. I admit to having purchased a box of 225 gr. Partitions for experimentation in flattening out the trajectory. Two years have passed and those tests have not yet been done due to other projects at the range and in the field. Maybe one day. I noted that you did not mention that particular weight and wondered if you feel as I do. The loss in weight is not worth the potential for modest trajectory improvement. Oh well I can always sell or trade them and keep on shooting those 250's.

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from Dick Mcplenty wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Well dave after reading this blog again,I've got to wonder just how much experience you really have with the .338win mag.And you call me sublime.I've carried a .338 win mag for 19 seasons.Its greatest virtue,is its chambered in a left handed model 700.I've used it on deer, elk and antelope,it usually kills a bull elk,cow or calf elk and at least a mule deer buck and at least three doe whitetail a year.Not to mention being being used by other hunters at least a couple times a year on like animals.I've used just about every bullet combo available. I've settled on 250 gr partitions for everything.Which as far as I'm concerned is the only bullet needed in a .338 win mag. Not 210 gr bullets because they recoil less and you can still lay claim to using a mighty .338.Dave you stated that you chose the .338 on those maine whitetails for "Interal Damage" and "Big enough exit wound for good blood trails" not a drop every 12.2 yards.Well dave I've used the 200gr bullets from speer,hornady,nosler and a couple others on deer. The nosler ballistic tip in .338 uses a heavy jacket and is designed around the same 60% weight retention that partitions and accubonds are. The end result is no more damage and in a lot of cases even less damage to a deer then any other .277,.284,.308 bullet driven at like speeds.Partitions are really disappointing in .338 on deer if you're hung up on getting a large exit wound.The 210gr partition tears things up internally,but usually sheds all the front portion and peals back the petals flush with the sides of the bottom portion of the bullet,leaving you with a standard exit wound of a .50 cent piece.Which is the same exit wound size that can be had with any of the smaller calibers.In fact its been my finding that on deer any of your heavy for caliber ballistic tips in .308 down to .277,tear things up better or at least as good and leave as good or better exit wounds on deer,as anything you can fire from a .338 win mag.I've seen 165gr corelokts out of an aught six leave incredible results on deer and they're cheap.If you don't want to track deer use shoulder shots or use non premium bullets(ones actually designed for deer) through the ribs.Just as a side note dave,you owe it to yourself to discuss the .338 win mag with one of your fellow writters John Barsness. I've talked to him at length and his findings with the .338 are very similar to my experiences.

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

MN Banjo, LowRecoil, ChadLI have several (3) different rifles that I use for different situations.1. .270 Win - deer and anything else2. .30-30 Win - feral hogs and anything else3A. .22 Hornet - turkeys and anything else3B. .22 LR - varmints around the house and anything elseIf one of the above won't get the job done where I hunt, guess I'll just have to change hunting areas!The three of you slammed this one.Give me one gun that I can shoot comfortably, shoot well, and enjoy shooting!Everything else is just gravy!Bubba

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from Chad Love wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

No, no, no. You got it all wrong. It's "Beware the man with many rifles in one caliber."You have to have a back-up. And then a back-up to the back-up. And then a loaner for friends. And then you have to have a couple for each of your unborn children. And then a couple spares buried out in the back yard just in case.

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from LowRecoil wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

MidnightBanjo makes an excellent point. It bewilders me that someone will spend stacks of cash on the rifle of their dreams, and then buy one (ONE!) box of the cheapest ammunition available. Odds are, half of that box will still be unfired when deer season rolls around.Of course, the natural progression is that when a deer presents itself for a shot, our thrifty hunter whiffs and then (all together now) blames the rifle. "Dadgum them danged ol' Rugers anyhow! I gotta get me a Remington!" Of course, any shots that I may have missed truly WERE caused by faulty weapons.It occurs to me that a good living could be made by following shooters who have firmly established bad habits or are allergic to practice, and offering to buy their rifles at a deep discount when they miss a shot.

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from MidnightBanjo wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Disturbing is what I find this kind of thinking to be. I'm with Bubba - just let me have one good rifle that I can shoot. To think that you need a different rifle for every situation is baffling. How many do you guys carry with you in the field? I am in no way saying that you should use the same rifle for elephants as you do for squirrels - but come on, do you really need 4 or 5 different rifles/calibers to hunt deer/elk/hogs? With the range of bullet weights out there for just about every caliber, I just don't see the need in having specific rifle, caliber, and load for every possible situation! If you need this, maybe you aren't as good a shot as you think you are. While learning to shoot I was told "Learn to shoot what you've got! It's plenty of gun!" They were talking about an old single shot .22. I must have shot that thing a couple hundred thousand times in my life. Took untold numbers of rabbits, squirrels, unfriendly and unowned dogs, coyotes, turtles and snakes (yes - snakes) with it. After learning to shoot it, not having it tuned/bedded/scoped/trigger job/and anything else you could think of, I could hit anything I could see with plain old ammo from the local store. I've seen my Grandfather drop a running coyote at nearly 1/4 mile with his 30-30 using open sights. Point being, spend the time on the range, know your firearm, place your shot well and have fun. Learn to shoot, learn shot placement, and when in doubt let it walk away. Just my own rant. Seems to me that I remember something like "Beware the man with one rifle"

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from Dale M wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Who the heck put together the current hunting rifle test (Test Your Whitetail IQ?) Correct answers such as "try a Texas brain shot" on an unwounded, unalerted deer?You've never shot your rifle at 350 yards and you're not sure how much the bullet drops out there but the "correct" answer is "hold on the hair and pray"?Contrary to the author of that test I've also known shooters who were very good target shots but poor game shots. It was undoubtedly something psychological, but nevertheless such things happen.Where has the author of that test been???

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

P.S. Let's all give Chev Jim a standing ovation for his Dickens send off... ghost of bruised shoulders indeed!

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

I'd have to agree with Dave and say McPlenty is full of facts and logic and from where I stand Low Recoil is also a newcomer with Plenty O'Wit. I also am amazed at the growth of this site. Not only in numbers but in the quality of personnel. We are becoming a think tank of the first magnitude.Different bullets are intended for different purposes and matching them to your particular hunting style is now the ennui du jour. Ballistic tips open rapidly and cause massive damage... but not out of a .338 on a gopher. A-Frames will go through everything including the tree behind your big buck. We are a culture overwhelmed by technology even when we try to return to our hunter gatherer roots. O'Connor lamented the slower opening deeper penetrating loads and I'm with him. Give me a little less edible meat and an animal that crumbles in its tracks every time. I don't take many shots over 50 yards because you can't see any farther than that in the woods here, tracking is near impossible and someone else will tag your buck 200 yards away. I'm going to write it just like last time in all caps... BULLET PLACEMENT IS EVERYTHING. I looked for a gut shot 150lb probably 90 field dressed doe for three hours once that my in law shot with a .375 H&H Magnum. Bigger is not always better, ask any of my old girlfriends!

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

You (blog folks!) keep talking about the .338 Win Mag.I loaded a butt load of .270 Win with the 160 gr Nosler Partition for a trip to Colorado. Probably popped 5 caps out of 50 rounds the entire trip and those were at the range!Time, work, and store being what it was, I decided to just shoot those come white tail season in E. Texas. They kill muley's and elk, why not whitetail?The little buck stepped out at about 50 yards. When the gun went off, he turned and ran straight at me, just like he'd never been touched! When he turned broadside on seeing me, I punched him again!There were four exterior holes, each and every one .277 in diameter! Those heavy bullets did not open up!Bubba

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

The "deadest" I ever kilt one, was in 1979. I had loaded some Sierra 90 gr FBHP in my .270 Win on a whim. Opening weekend of deer season, I couldn't find the box of 130 gr SPBT I had loaded for the trip. In desperation, I shot 3 of the 90's and was surprised at the accuracy, lowered the crosshair a bit and went hunting!He stepped out at approximately 125 yards. I had the 3X9 Leupold cranked up to 9 and he stopped broadside. I rested the rifle on the window sill of the blind and squeezed a round off.That was the FIRST time I actually saw what happened to the deer before recoil destroyed the sight picture! WOW!As long as my old .270 keeps punching 'em dead, that's what I'll shoot!Bubba

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

LowRecoil:Your perceptions are without a doubt applicable to almost everyone. Here is my .30-30 tale.In about '69 or '70 I wanted a new rifle but didn't have the money so I "settled" for a 1957 vintage like new M-94 in .30-30. As the years passed and the gun safe filled the M-94 got shoved to the back. One day I mentioned to a fellow that I had this old gun and he offered enough money for it that I could buy another Leupold Vari-X III. Well last year my kid (yep the trap shootin, magnum loving, long range expert) decided that he would forgo the magnums and .270/.280s and wanted to shoot his deer with an open sighted .30-30. Of course mine is gone and I refuse to pay the price that folks want for good ones today. So yes whatever you have that brings you confidence is the "best choice" except when you want to try something different.

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from Steve C wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

It would be interesting how people arrived at their first big game rifle.I think hunters select their first rifle (and cartridge) based on "emotional" criteria as opposed to some kind of scientific analysis.I had money in my pocket when I went looking for a Marlin 336 in .375 Winchester in 1979. Not finding one, I "settled" for a Mod 70 Winchester in 25-06 (mfg 1977). Polar opposites.

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from dick mcplenty wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

I'm glad you agree with my findings on calibers dave.Elk and antelope tend to bring out the worst in hunters when being shot at.You'll find that hunting elk on public lands usually falls under two areas. Elk up close and elk on the run at longer range. I do believe that the .30cal and larger bullets have an edge in that wound channels are larger and provide more blood trail. The .338 does leave a great wound channel and subsequently a good blood trail in most cases.But all of this is moot,if you place your shot correctly in the first place.Elmer Keith is always sited as using heavy caliber/bullet combos in an effort to overcome bullet failures due to poor design and technology.However,elmer had access to partitions just like everybody else since 1949.He pimped the .338 and larger calibers because it was his reputation to do so,not because they were the only logical solution to big game hunting.

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from LowRecoil wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

I believe I have read enough on this thread and the previous one to make a courageous pronouncement: I have determined once and for all the absolute best caliber to take hunting. It's the caliber that your favorite rifle of the moment is chambered in.Scientific analysis holds very little sway in most of our choices for a sporting arm. We cling to a particular firearm for one of a variety of reasons: perhaps you pulled off a remarkable shot with it once; perhaps it's a rifle that Grandpa gave you when you were nine; maybe it's just so danged purty. Regardless, we rarely choose our weapons by consulting the ballistics tables and comparing empirical data on bullet penetration and expansion.I'm no different. I have two rifles that I use almost to the exclusion of all the others. I kid you not: these two are the right and left arms of the ungulate Angel of Death. To me, that is. To someone else, they may seem more effectively used as boat paddles.Be honest: how many of you will spend at least a day or two afield this year carrying an old .30-30, ballistics and "killing power" be damned? Yep, me too.

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Steve:I have two .280s, eighties vintage Sakos and agree with what you say in both entries for the most part. The problem I often encounter is that the elk does not meet the criteria you specify. Thus I find myself reaching for a rifle/cartridge that I feel is more appropriate for long range encounters but can still stop a charging grizzley (some days it seems we have more griz than elk in Wyoming). This is where my .338 fits. And yes I do have a lot of rifles which I have purchased or had built from 1970 to 2006. I state this so you guys will not think that this ishawooa guy is totally full of shxx. All my guns have been shot...a lot...at many things and a fair number of animals.

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from Steve C wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

By the way, I only shoot a 280 Remington and would feel 100% confident in taking any elk alive given the proper shot. For me that equates to a) broadside or similar at b) 200yds or less c) with the proper bullet for those conditions and d) plenty of daylight left for tracking. If a B&C elk was at 250 yds quartering away, I take no shot. My rules.Different rules for a .338.

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from Steve C wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Every cartridge made falls into a category of anything from overkill and not enough depending on; 1) the species and 2) the situation.A 7mm (along with several others) is capable of successfully killing every land animal on earth given the proper bullet and placement, and allowing enough time for this to take effect."Margin of error" seems to be the key words here. Every hunter would like to believe they shoot in the field the same as they do on the range. This is sometimes not the case and that's where margin of error can help. But it's also where some hunters take a shot where they have no business doing so.

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from Matt in MN wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Mr. Dick McPlenty? lol

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

I hate being the first guy to comment but here goes anyway. Insofar as the McPlenty theory on all modern bullets of various calibers are more equal than in the past...maybe but certainly not equal. No doubt the 7x57 will penetrate with the efficiency of the .375, my .357 will penetrate about the same or better than my .44 mag or hot .45 Colt. From actual field experience I know which I would prefer and it ain't the little guy. Same goes for my .22-.250 (yep I know a guy who shot a nice bull once with this round for a one shot kill additionally read up on what P. O. had to say about the matter) versus .338 on elk, etc. Using the modern bullet rationale maybe the PH should consider a BAR in .243 and really blast the critter a bunch of times or maybe even a nice DPMS. I understand your desire to utilize the .338 on Maine deer. I have done the same thing on whitetails, mulies, and pronghorns just because I wanted to see what would happen (plus a little load testing plus Elmer shot a goat in Wyoming back in the seventies with his .338 and at the time I thought it was not kosher but later gave it a try anyway).There are all sorts of stories on the tremendous successes of various cartridges and bullets but also a vast array of yarns concerning miserable failures of the same rounds. Usually the circumstances and the shooter's abilities are the variance.I have a couple friends here in Wyoming who have elk hunted togather for over twenty years. One uses a Model 700 in .243 with factory loads and the other has a No. 1 in .375 H & H with his handloads. They argue all the way to the mountains about which is the best elk cartridge. They argue all the way home a few days later...each with his bull in the back of the pickup. Use what works for you.

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from John B wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

In the end, it all boils down to shot placement and proper bullet selection and performance. I once took a broadside shot at a small black bear with my .375 but instead of breaking down his shoulders I took a lung shot. There was no bullet recovery as I saw it kick up dirt on his far side and I can only assume that there was little expansion. Although he was dead on his feet and didn't know it he almost ran over me before falling dead.Does the fact that he didn't go belly up at the sound of the muzzle blast make the .375 inadequate for black bear? Of course not; for that caliber, with a 300 grain bullet it was just bad bullet placement on my part.

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from Beekeeper wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

I can't remember who said it but here goes... A .375 H&H in the guts is a hit in the guts... period! There is no substitute for a well aimed and placed bullet.I too have encountered that odd animal over the years that for what ever reason did not wilt and ground itself after a well placed shot.Dave, you said it your self a month or so ago while discussing why you don't like to pull the trigger on a game as animal as much as you once did. The Game animals we hunt work hard to live in their world and are very tenacious of life.I hunt in the south in areas where a long shot is 75 yards. If an animal (deer or hog) makes it to cover or to water, it becomes a very long day indeed. I would like modify Ruark's famous recommendation, "Use enough gun for the place and animal you hunt"!

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from Harold wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

Sure, if you want to use a .338, why not? However, as you pointed out, it's hardly needed and alot of guys really can't handle the recoil and blast. I use a 7X57 and a 257 Robert for most of my hunting and they have done just fine for everything Wyoming has to offer. For deer-sized animals, I have found out that bullets that open up quickly do better at anchoring animals quickly than those that "penetrate.

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from Robert Dawson wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Since death doesn't come by graduated degree, then why not use a 338 Win Mag instead of a 7mm-08? There really is no such thing as overkill when hunting. A hunter can mostly use whatever cartridge he wants as long as it's legal. Happy hunting, Dave Petzal!

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