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Chad Love: On Hunting and Democracy

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October 21, 2008

Chad Love: On Hunting and Democracy

By Dave Hurteau & Chad Love

I've been a big fan of Slate since Michael Kinsley founded the site back in 1996. So imagine my surprise to see both Field & Stream and myself mentioned in a recent column by Slate writer Michael Agger

Agger's column argues that Sarah Palin is - somewhat ironically - the very thing so many socially-conscious urban lefty types aspire to, a slow food-consuming locavore (For more on that subject I highly recommend Michael Pollan's book "The Omnivore's Dilemma”).

Why? Because Palin's brand of hunting springs not from the ruling-class aristocratic view of hunting as a well-heeled and genteel "sport" (Agger uses Cheney as the embodiment of this view) but from the more proletarian need for putting meat on the table. Being of lowborn hillbilly stock myself, I tend to agree.

I do, however, have a few small criticisms of Agger's column. One, I think he, as many presumably non-hunting journalists do, tends to lump hunters into that "red-state rural" catagory when in fact we - demographically speaking - are all over the map. Two, I think most journalists are either completely unaware of or disregard the impact of the North American Wildlife Conservation Model on American democracy.   

He writes: "Hunting has been a useful political symbol since Teddy Roosevelt. When Field & Stream posted Palin's hunting and fishing photos on its Web site, high-fives broke out among the assembled commenters....Perhaps it's this patriotic element of hunting that makes hunting advocates fear for the country when they see their sport in decline

In response I can only say, well, yes. The egalitarian ideals embodied in our system of wildlife management are a reflection and a natural extension of larger ideals that are the underpinnings of our democracy. What this nation's unique system of wildlife management does very well is promote and foster a sense of participation, ownership, and advocacy. Everyone, regardless of income or station in society, has a say and a stake in our nation's wildlife. It is both a hands-on civics lesson and an interactive demonstration of conservation in action. American hunting is participatory democracy at its finest, and as hunters we have every right to fear what its decline may mean for our children's future, because the alternative seems to be a growing culture of apathy and self-absorbtion. 

Aggers writes: 

If you read around on hunting sites, the anecdotal blame falls on suburbanization, single-parent households, and restrictive gun laws—but the real bile is saved for video games. Chad Love, of Field & Stream, echoed the sentiments of his fellow hunters in a recent blog post, when he recalled his boyhood "back before the dawning of the 'Stoned on Electronic Entertainment Age.' " His remark was greeted with this typical Amen: "We don't let our kids play outside, yet wonder why they are fat, full of allergies and lazy."

Actually, I didn't mention video games when I made the "Stoned on Electronic Entertainment Age" quip and nowhere did I make the argument video games are the reason for declining hunter numbers. What I did say, and what I still firmly believe - is that we are raising our children in a culture that - hunter or no hunter - increasingly views nature as an abstraction to be observed rather than a reality to be participated in. I think that's a tragedy for a child's development, a tragedy for our future and I don't quite understand Agger's mildly sneering tone. Does he disagree?

Comments (22)

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from William wrote 3 years 30 weeks ago

johnl,At least your democrat family members hunt.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from johnl wrote 3 years 30 weeks ago

To Bob,If you're still out there, and just to re-open the argument, the liberal democrats in my family that I have to get along with for familial harmony, they ain't very good hunters.Wussies!Anyone else??

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Glen wrote 3 years 30 weeks ago

That is a Very Nice Bird You Got there! Congrads

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Bob wrote 3 years 30 weeks ago

"You can't be hostile to gun ownership and pro-hunting."I'm a regular reader of Slate. To begin with, Slate is not produced by a single writer or source. While it does skew left to a certain degree, the site features dozens of writers with a wide range of opinions on articles. It's misleading to say "Slate want's anything, really" since there is no single editorial voice.Furthermore, national polls show that plenty of people are at least a little bit "hostile to gun ownership but pro hunting". The following national polls show the vast majority of Americans are in favor of legalized hunting,but also in favor of some form of gun control."http://www.nhfday.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=16&Itemid=79http://www.gallup.com/poll/27229/Gallup-Summary-Americans-Gun-Control.aspx

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Andrew wrote 3 years 30 weeks ago

You can't be hostile to gun ownership and pro-hunting. The Slate wants all sorts of gun control- including a natioanl registration and supprted the bogus lawsuits against the gun industry.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Bob wrote 3 years 30 weeks ago

Yooper,"I do find it ironic, however, that people would desire to be your neighbor, but then try to change the neighborhood. Wasn't it the neighborhood that attracted them in the first place?"Don't be surprised at all. My sister used to be a state biologist at the biggest marsh in Wisconsin. Every spring she would get calls from new residents in the area demanding that she "do something about the frogs making all the noise at night".

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Evan! wrote 3 years 31 weeks ago

Chad -Good article! Thanks for raising the level of discourse. It's comforting to see someone write about this subject in a way that doesn't rely on "the antis are out to get us" type paranoia as a principal source of information. thanks again.yrs-Evan!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from YooperJack wrote 3 years 31 weeks ago

Gman:That's an interesting observation about the new residents. Your new neighbors obviously find safety in numbers. We get a lot of new people up here also. If they're truly anti-hunting, they keep that in the closet! A lot of the new people are waiting for an invite. Unfortunately, since many are "snowbirds" they don't get the deer hunting opportunity that late fall offers.I do find it ironic, however, that people would desire to be your neighbor, but then try to change the neighborhood. Wasn't it the neighborhood that attracted them in the first place?YooperJackP.S. Hasn't MSM made quite a definitive statement, about their view of hunters, with their treatment of Sara Palin? Any teenager would have to come away from this election thinking that hunting certainly isn't cool. That is, any teen whom we haven't already snared in our trap!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Gman wrote 3 years 31 weeks ago

All due respects to you, Teak, but educating the average hack about this topic is a tall order. There is much distrust of the media among not only outdoorsmen, but also farmers.When I inherited a farm beat in upstate NY, I found the local ag community very closed. One of the guys finally told me my predecessor more or less used the beat to hammer on BST. These guys were trying to make a living with small to medium-sized herds, and were getting pounded by a city guy who couldn't tell you what a milk marketing order or a hundredweight was. I finally broke thru when I told one of the Farm Bureau guys the first vehicle I drove was a Farmall H. Ag economics is a fascinating subject, but the typical journalist envisions it as Les Nesman's Golden Sow...so we get no perspective on ag policy from sugar cane to dairy and everything in between.This topic as introduced by Chad could be a PhD topic or a long book - urbanization, loss of access and the rural culture that knew what farming was about and encouraged hunting (a lot of land in the Catskills is now posted by 2nd-home owners whose knowledge of deer populations comes from Bambi); yes, perceptions among the unknowing of guns; and an overall development of having kids be scheduled and/or supervised 24/7 instead of catching crayfish or frogs (no kidnappers in the living room).Thanks to Chad for the post. A real brain exercise.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Mike wrote 3 years 31 weeks ago

Perhaps you should extend Agger an invite to challenge his perspective. Invite him to go hunting with you. As you well know this is the best time of year to be part of nature. Have him go through all the prep - choosing the game, the ammo, the gun, sighting/patterning, practice, and then the actual hunt ... and the kill ... and the reverence ... then the dressing and butchering, and the feasting and comradery.Then get him ready for the next Alaskan salmon run. Probably nothing like being in a cold river dodging hungry brown bears to make one feel a part of nature (still waiting my turn at this one).Perhaps we need a special invite a newby day.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Teak Phillips wrote 3 years 31 weeks ago

Chad,Those of us who work in media every day, and who hunt and fish, are fully award of the challenges presented by the media's lack of understanding or appreciation of these issues. Perhaps our job is to educate our colleagues and advocate for a better understanding of the American outdoorsman.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from johnl wrote 3 years 31 weeks ago

Bob,God bless ya'.johnl

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Bob wrote 3 years 31 weeks ago

John,Guilty as charged that I haven't listened to as much Rush as many. I'll admit I tend to use Rush as a stand-in for the more radical fringes of the right wing (just as I use Michael Moore as a sort of stand in for the far left).I get very aggravated by much of the "liberal bashing" that goes on in this blog. I suspect much of the criticism of "so-called liberals" is written by people that know few if any personally and get much of thier information based on exaggerations of hippies living in Haight Ashbury in San Francisco that they've seen on tv.In my own experience, most people on both ends of the political spectrum are much more reasonable than we give them credit for.I also think it is a very good idea to look for common ground between seemingly-disparate groups of people. In addition to being an extremely avid hunter, I also do a significant amount of river restoration work and wildlife rehabilitation here in Wisconsin. These groups bring a mixture of the crunchiest hippies you'll ever care to meet as well as sportsman concerned about wildlife habitat. You know what? Everybody gets along because they know there's we are all working for a common cause.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Dan wrote 3 years 31 weeks ago

Excellent set of links and references!!Underneath this is the history of the conservation movement -- and the sometimes very negative impacts on otherwise innocent relatively low-impact subsistence users of wild resources that some protection policies eliminated. The modern debate provides an ironic echo of some of that struggle.http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/8740.php

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from johnl wrote 3 years 31 weeks ago

Bob,With all due respect, I don't believe you've listened to Rush Limbaugh much.There's isn't anyone who's more outspoken when he disagrees with either party or any politician. John McCain was not his first choice, or mine either, but the alternative in this election is unacceptable.We have only two to choose from, unless you wish to vote for Cynthia McKinney or Ralph Nader.I don't consider myself "indoctrinated" but there are people and positions I primarily agree with, and people and positions I don't on most occasions.I'll make up my own mind, as I suspect you do. But, to raise the level of discourse, it's best not to dismiss anything as "bulls..t".That's doing exactly what you accuse the other side of doing.I have active liberal democrats in the family. We "agree to disagree".

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from jstreet wrote 3 years 31 weeks ago

Aggers is just another person who would prefer to not know how his food reaches the table and thus pretend he is more civilized.I also did not appreciate the fact that he pulled a quote of mine from your blog from a completely unrelated post (about small pets) and use it to try and make a point about hunting and Sarah Palin. To do so is shoddy journalism @ best and I personally find it insulting.In short, the man is a hack and a meat eating hypocrite.Jim

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Bob wrote 3 years 31 weeks ago

All this talk about liberals and thier disdain for hunters is in my opinion, a bunch of bull-s___. As I've mentioned here before, I live in a very urban area of a major metropolitan city in the midwest(that happens to skew very liberal). Hunting isn't hated here among even many of the even hard-core liberals; to be honest, it is more viewed as kind of a quaint curiosity.Also, despite some of your dismissals of it, the recent trend toward "eating local" has definitely changed the opinions of many of the people I know regarding the ethics of hunting.This very thing is in fact the focus of the last chapter of "The Omnivore's Dillemma", the book Chad mentioned earlier.I know many of us have been indoctrinated into believing that we should be against every stance taken by those of different political persuasions than us, but despite what Rush Limbaugh would have us believe, that is not the reality of the world we live in.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from At work, wishing I was hunting instead wrote 3 years 31 weeks ago

In re: Mike Diehl @ 1:23pm - What you say, may or may not be true; however, my experience with liberals, and their opinions on hunting, is that they find it a disdainful sport engaged in by lesser beings (if you call that indifference, then so be it). Maybe it's just an east coast thing, but none-the-less it is an attitude that I encounter quite frequently.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from jack wrote 3 years 31 weeks ago

Mildly sneering? Seemed like a full-on sneer to me.I agree with the assertion that Man is a part of nature - a key participant - not merely an observer. Agger seems to not grasp the concept, he being of the urban clans who go to the park in the middle of the city to look at it.Agger's closing point that I somehow hold common cause with the urban lefties because I may meet one of the definitions of locavore is laughable. I eat what I hunt and catch because it's tastier and adds a dimension to my life that reinforces my desire to comply with the commands given in Genesis 1:28-30.Agger's urban lefty crowds fancy themselves locavores to achieve pseudo eco-concious purposes that have little to do with reason and much to do with politics.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Mike Diehl wrote 3 years 31 weeks ago

Most liberals are rather neutral about hunting, statistically speaking. I view Agger's commentary as rather more symptomatic of the propensity for commentary-journalists to write about subjects on which they are largely ignorant. In that arena, "liberal" journalists are no worse than "conservative" ones.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from At work, wishing I was hunting instead wrote 3 years 31 weeks ago

Chad, at what point did you fail to realize that Slate is little more than an extension of the WaPo and, as such, is prone to spouting liberal tripe frequently? What makes you think that its view of hunters/outdoorsman is any different from the contemptuous view that most liberals share? I'm surprised that you're surprised that Slate published a piece about hunting by an author using a "mildly sneering tone."

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from I'm in school right now wrote 3 years 31 weeks ago

Chad, I think this guy believes that we are just another animal-killing obsessed site full of irresponsible hunters because that is the national image nowadays. I think the fact that he included the 'electronic entertainment age' just backs up the fact that i believe he's trying to make fun of you.Nate

0 Good Comment? | | Report

Post a Comment

from William wrote 3 years 30 weeks ago

johnl,At least your democrat family members hunt.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from johnl wrote 3 years 30 weeks ago

To Bob,If you're still out there, and just to re-open the argument, the liberal democrats in my family that I have to get along with for familial harmony, they ain't very good hunters.Wussies!Anyone else??

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Glen wrote 3 years 30 weeks ago

That is a Very Nice Bird You Got there! Congrads

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Bob wrote 3 years 30 weeks ago

"You can't be hostile to gun ownership and pro-hunting."I'm a regular reader of Slate. To begin with, Slate is not produced by a single writer or source. While it does skew left to a certain degree, the site features dozens of writers with a wide range of opinions on articles. It's misleading to say "Slate want's anything, really" since there is no single editorial voice.Furthermore, national polls show that plenty of people are at least a little bit "hostile to gun ownership but pro hunting". The following national polls show the vast majority of Americans are in favor of legalized hunting,but also in favor of some form of gun control."http://www.nhfday.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=16&Itemid=79http://www.gallup.com/poll/27229/Gallup-Summary-Americans-Gun-Control.aspx

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Andrew wrote 3 years 30 weeks ago

You can't be hostile to gun ownership and pro-hunting. The Slate wants all sorts of gun control- including a natioanl registration and supprted the bogus lawsuits against the gun industry.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Bob wrote 3 years 30 weeks ago

Yooper,"I do find it ironic, however, that people would desire to be your neighbor, but then try to change the neighborhood. Wasn't it the neighborhood that attracted them in the first place?"Don't be surprised at all. My sister used to be a state biologist at the biggest marsh in Wisconsin. Every spring she would get calls from new residents in the area demanding that she "do something about the frogs making all the noise at night".

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Evan! wrote 3 years 31 weeks ago

Chad -Good article! Thanks for raising the level of discourse. It's comforting to see someone write about this subject in a way that doesn't rely on "the antis are out to get us" type paranoia as a principal source of information. thanks again.yrs-Evan!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from YooperJack wrote 3 years 31 weeks ago

Gman:That's an interesting observation about the new residents. Your new neighbors obviously find safety in numbers. We get a lot of new people up here also. If they're truly anti-hunting, they keep that in the closet! A lot of the new people are waiting for an invite. Unfortunately, since many are "snowbirds" they don't get the deer hunting opportunity that late fall offers.I do find it ironic, however, that people would desire to be your neighbor, but then try to change the neighborhood. Wasn't it the neighborhood that attracted them in the first place?YooperJackP.S. Hasn't MSM made quite a definitive statement, about their view of hunters, with their treatment of Sara Palin? Any teenager would have to come away from this election thinking that hunting certainly isn't cool. That is, any teen whom we haven't already snared in our trap!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Gman wrote 3 years 31 weeks ago

All due respects to you, Teak, but educating the average hack about this topic is a tall order. There is much distrust of the media among not only outdoorsmen, but also farmers.When I inherited a farm beat in upstate NY, I found the local ag community very closed. One of the guys finally told me my predecessor more or less used the beat to hammer on BST. These guys were trying to make a living with small to medium-sized herds, and were getting pounded by a city guy who couldn't tell you what a milk marketing order or a hundredweight was. I finally broke thru when I told one of the Farm Bureau guys the first vehicle I drove was a Farmall H. Ag economics is a fascinating subject, but the typical journalist envisions it as Les Nesman's Golden Sow...so we get no perspective on ag policy from sugar cane to dairy and everything in between.This topic as introduced by Chad could be a PhD topic or a long book - urbanization, loss of access and the rural culture that knew what farming was about and encouraged hunting (a lot of land in the Catskills is now posted by 2nd-home owners whose knowledge of deer populations comes from Bambi); yes, perceptions among the unknowing of guns; and an overall development of having kids be scheduled and/or supervised 24/7 instead of catching crayfish or frogs (no kidnappers in the living room).Thanks to Chad for the post. A real brain exercise.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Mike wrote 3 years 31 weeks ago

Perhaps you should extend Agger an invite to challenge his perspective. Invite him to go hunting with you. As you well know this is the best time of year to be part of nature. Have him go through all the prep - choosing the game, the ammo, the gun, sighting/patterning, practice, and then the actual hunt ... and the kill ... and the reverence ... then the dressing and butchering, and the feasting and comradery.Then get him ready for the next Alaskan salmon run. Probably nothing like being in a cold river dodging hungry brown bears to make one feel a part of nature (still waiting my turn at this one).Perhaps we need a special invite a newby day.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Teak Phillips wrote 3 years 31 weeks ago

Chad,Those of us who work in media every day, and who hunt and fish, are fully award of the challenges presented by the media's lack of understanding or appreciation of these issues. Perhaps our job is to educate our colleagues and advocate for a better understanding of the American outdoorsman.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from johnl wrote 3 years 31 weeks ago

Bob,God bless ya'.johnl

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Bob wrote 3 years 31 weeks ago

John,Guilty as charged that I haven't listened to as much Rush as many. I'll admit I tend to use Rush as a stand-in for the more radical fringes of the right wing (just as I use Michael Moore as a sort of stand in for the far left).I get very aggravated by much of the "liberal bashing" that goes on in this blog. I suspect much of the criticism of "so-called liberals" is written by people that know few if any personally and get much of thier information based on exaggerations of hippies living in Haight Ashbury in San Francisco that they've seen on tv.In my own experience, most people on both ends of the political spectrum are much more reasonable than we give them credit for.I also think it is a very good idea to look for common ground between seemingly-disparate groups of people. In addition to being an extremely avid hunter, I also do a significant amount of river restoration work and wildlife rehabilitation here in Wisconsin. These groups bring a mixture of the crunchiest hippies you'll ever care to meet as well as sportsman concerned about wildlife habitat. You know what? Everybody gets along because they know there's we are all working for a common cause.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Dan wrote 3 years 31 weeks ago

Excellent set of links and references!!Underneath this is the history of the conservation movement -- and the sometimes very negative impacts on otherwise innocent relatively low-impact subsistence users of wild resources that some protection policies eliminated. The modern debate provides an ironic echo of some of that struggle.http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/8740.php

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from johnl wrote 3 years 31 weeks ago

Bob,With all due respect, I don't believe you've listened to Rush Limbaugh much.There's isn't anyone who's more outspoken when he disagrees with either party or any politician. John McCain was not his first choice, or mine either, but the alternative in this election is unacceptable.We have only two to choose from, unless you wish to vote for Cynthia McKinney or Ralph Nader.I don't consider myself "indoctrinated" but there are people and positions I primarily agree with, and people and positions I don't on most occasions.I'll make up my own mind, as I suspect you do. But, to raise the level of discourse, it's best not to dismiss anything as "bulls..t".That's doing exactly what you accuse the other side of doing.I have active liberal democrats in the family. We "agree to disagree".

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from jstreet wrote 3 years 31 weeks ago

Aggers is just another person who would prefer to not know how his food reaches the table and thus pretend he is more civilized.I also did not appreciate the fact that he pulled a quote of mine from your blog from a completely unrelated post (about small pets) and use it to try and make a point about hunting and Sarah Palin. To do so is shoddy journalism @ best and I personally find it insulting.In short, the man is a hack and a meat eating hypocrite.Jim

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Bob wrote 3 years 31 weeks ago

All this talk about liberals and thier disdain for hunters is in my opinion, a bunch of bull-s___. As I've mentioned here before, I live in a very urban area of a major metropolitan city in the midwest(that happens to skew very liberal). Hunting isn't hated here among even many of the even hard-core liberals; to be honest, it is more viewed as kind of a quaint curiosity.Also, despite some of your dismissals of it, the recent trend toward "eating local" has definitely changed the opinions of many of the people I know regarding the ethics of hunting.This very thing is in fact the focus of the last chapter of "The Omnivore's Dillemma", the book Chad mentioned earlier.I know many of us have been indoctrinated into believing that we should be against every stance taken by those of different political persuasions than us, but despite what Rush Limbaugh would have us believe, that is not the reality of the world we live in.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from At work, wishing I was hunting instead wrote 3 years 31 weeks ago

In re: Mike Diehl @ 1:23pm - What you say, may or may not be true; however, my experience with liberals, and their opinions on hunting, is that they find it a disdainful sport engaged in by lesser beings (if you call that indifference, then so be it). Maybe it's just an east coast thing, but none-the-less it is an attitude that I encounter quite frequently.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from jack wrote 3 years 31 weeks ago

Mildly sneering? Seemed like a full-on sneer to me.I agree with the assertion that Man is a part of nature - a key participant - not merely an observer. Agger seems to not grasp the concept, he being of the urban clans who go to the park in the middle of the city to look at it.Agger's closing point that I somehow hold common cause with the urban lefties because I may meet one of the definitions of locavore is laughable. I eat what I hunt and catch because it's tastier and adds a dimension to my life that reinforces my desire to comply with the commands given in Genesis 1:28-30.Agger's urban lefty crowds fancy themselves locavores to achieve pseudo eco-concious purposes that have little to do with reason and much to do with politics.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Mike Diehl wrote 3 years 31 weeks ago

Most liberals are rather neutral about hunting, statistically speaking. I view Agger's commentary as rather more symptomatic of the propensity for commentary-journalists to write about subjects on which they are largely ignorant. In that arena, "liberal" journalists are no worse than "conservative" ones.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from At work, wishing I was hunting instead wrote 3 years 31 weeks ago

Chad, at what point did you fail to realize that Slate is little more than an extension of the WaPo and, as such, is prone to spouting liberal tripe frequently? What makes you think that its view of hunters/outdoorsman is any different from the contemptuous view that most liberals share? I'm surprised that you're surprised that Slate published a piece about hunting by an author using a "mildly sneering tone."

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from I'm in school right now wrote 3 years 31 weeks ago

Chad, I think this guy believes that we are just another animal-killing obsessed site full of irresponsible hunters because that is the national image nowadays. I think the fact that he included the 'electronic entertainment age' just backs up the fact that i believe he's trying to make fun of you.Nate

0 Good Comment? | | Report

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