Oh yeah, I love Bushnell. Glad to see them moving ahead.

"Now here is a scope to make you take the food out of your childrens’ mouths and rush off to the sporting-goods stores with their piteous cries still lingering in your ears."...let them cry...sounds like a darn good scope.

Does anybody know how accurate the DOA 250 for muzzleloaders are? And do you need to have a specific load for it to be accurate, such as 100gr or 150gr of powder and specific bullet weights as well?

You can't truly appreciate the cost of a top line scope until you have looked through it, then all else is pale (or is that dim) by comparison!

I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but I think that this scope is a lousy idea! 16 power is way too much to use in the game fields, even for something like antelope. It's a gadget designed to get the gear-oriented American to buy it instead of becoming a better shot and hunter.

How about this? Get a 4x or 6x scope. Put it on a good rifle and sight it in correctly-for most people that means it hits 2-3 inches above POA at 100yds. Then, learn how to shoot it at ranges up to 300 yds! Keep your shots under 300 yds. and get a good rest. You do your part and everything you shoot at will fall over.

What we need are better hunters and better shots, not a fancy scope.

Harold

"At the bottom is a tapered post for 600 yards in case you are deranged."

"and 600 if you have a screw loose"

"Then, learn how to shoot it at ranges up to 300 yds! Keep your shots under 300 yds. and get a good rest. You do your part and everything you shoot at will fall over.

What we need are better hunters and better shots, not a fancy scope."

Yup.

I have mixed feelings about DEP comment re: shooting beyond X00.....yds. I, too, am not inclined to 'raise the barrel and let'er go' at a range of which I have no concept. However, I also am capable, with the proper equipment, which I have, and the proper setup of the shot to be quite confident at a range of 500 yd+. It is a question of the target, the conditions, and the ability of the shooter to know his equipment. Who would want to be standing broadside at 1000yds with a Marine sniper on the scope? I personally know a number of dedicated sheep hunters that are more than capable of killing a ram at 500+ yds, but they also know their limits and do not launch lead in the air just to see what happens. Sooo, anyway.......onward,
dickgun

I don't own a Bushnell but hear only good things about the 4200 so this model is most likely as good or better. I would have great use for 16x and the 500-600 yards marks. By the same token I could turn it down to the low end for those risky moments that I decide to venture into the woods with the grizzlys waiting to hear the 7 mm "dinner bell" sound. I think I would really like this scope but see few if any real advantages over a similar Leupold with B & C reticle. Perhaps the rainguard is a plus, I would like to try it on a wet snowy afternoon in the mountains.

WA Mtnhunter-
My Remington 700 ADL with Simmons 3 X 9 over an Ironsighter mount has killed as many or more deer than anything in our deer hunting group. Why? Because it works and I don't fix what ain't broken. The Elite 6500 is way more magnification than I need at 300 yds. for a whitetail deer, and 300 is my personal limit for live animals.

Dave I a question. Since this is second plane reticle, how accurate are the "extended-yardage aiming points" and Rack Bracket system when you change magnification?

The Prices ( MSRP)

http://www.tacticalgunarmory.com/Elite_Series_s/43.htm?gclid=COuyzYSJ05w...

Whitefish,
On our place we have a 'no atv's during season rule'. That p.o.'d a few people (friends included) but it improves the quality of the hunt and the last thing I want to hear is somebody motoring around while I'm in my stand. The only exception is for an emergency.

I don't need GPS here. If I am somewhere I need navigation there is this invention called a map. Maps don't lose lock on satellites or have dead batteries. I can see uses for one but not here in S GA. Maybe(as a supplement to a map) , if I were in the Okefenokee, or if I'm flying, or for an unmarked corner of a property line.
I like my 270WSM. If I can get a flatter-shooting rifle, or a clearer, more capable scope than the last one, I'll move up if it is a real improvement. I won't skimp on rifle, scope, or binoculars. I won't overpay either. So far I give my 6500 about a 8.4 on a scale of ten. Don't open a hot dog stand on a dirt road to finance it just yet...

WaMtnhunter & crm3006,
Sorry to hear y'all have setups that would disqualify each at the other's club. You'd both be treated well here as long as you act right, don't lie too much, and bring beer. Whitefish, you'd be welcome too. You'd get to bring 2 cases of beer for being ornery though.:)

crm3006

I usually shoot at 6x becasue that's where I keep the 3-9x dialed in the field. I never think to mess with it when a deer or elk presents itself. The center of the crosshair is always center of the crosshair. 9x is nice at the range. I agree, don't fix what ain't broke. That's why that Leupold has been perched on top of that .35 Whelen for about 15 years. If a lesser scope had been working well, it would be there. A rancher friend of mine out in MT has an old .280 Remington with a old Bushnell scope on it. Both are a little worse for wear, but you would wet yourself if you saw the pile of antlers in the barn that thing has taken. I think he last bought a box of cartridges about 5 years ago after his boy shot up the box he had!

Sgaredneck

You mean to tell me that beer and lying too much don't go together? LOL

Best regards

WA Mtnhunter,
Here's the equation; I have verified this many times.

beer(amount)/hunters + campfire/temperature(deg F) = BS therefore;
beer can be a component of lies.
However;
lies are not necessarily a component of beer

MLH,
I agree with you on the reticle thing. That sounds like a catchy sales pitch line the guy at the counter at BPS would use.

To Bill Mason: Good question. The range compensation works only when the scope is at 16X. I believe that all range-compensating scopes with second-plane reticles function only at one magnification. Leupold's very good B&C reticle works at 6X, for example. I asked the Bushnell people why 16X and they said to give you one less thing to remember in the heat of battle--all you have to do is crank it all the way up. I like it; 16X is a great comfort at long range.

Hey, just to clarify, I am a high-tech redneck, I invested in a Laser rangfinder about four years ago. Just want to know exactly how far I am trying to strech the barrel on the Old Ugly '06. I usually find that my scope is set on 4X when in the blind.

CRM3006

We have a fellow that has been asked to not come back because of poor shooting and maybe even poorer tracking skills. It is a shame because everyone likes him and I bet a couple of guys pull out because of it when they find out. I hate it too, but it is easier to find replacement hunters than quality places to hunt where there is lots of game.

sgaredneck

I don't think tall tales and BS fall into the lying category in hunting camp! But acting right sure does.

Best regards

AlaskanExile-
Don't know much about the .264 Win Mag. Thought you were a .338 kind of guy, .338 ends all discussions and settles all disputes????

crm3006,
Glad you find humor in my formula there. Forgot to add that when using it, the BS component is measured in units of metric sh*tloads. I will put thought into how to incorporate the range/hits-misses/tonsil paint as some sort of theorem. I'm sure the civilized world would be a better place being able to make such important calculations as these. You would be credited for that one of course since that is your realm of study.

Wa Mtnhunter,
Hate to hear the early fate of your former hunting pardner (Mr. Vegetarian). I cannot truly claim every thing I have ever shot has been found in a timely manner. Sometimes wild animals don't follow the script. Wish there was a solution for your camp cohort. I have found a couple of times that the group chemistry is upset more than you count on when a person departs or is replaced. Hope that works out. I don't have a snappy equation or comeback for you on that one.

turbo,
I wish everything was still built in the U.S. of A but my Bushnell says JAPAN on its bottomside. Lately, I have noticed more and more of Leupold's line made in places even further east of Japan. I wish that these companies would realize that people like myself (and I gather you too) would pay some extra coin for it to be made here.
For me Japan>Taiwan>Korea>Phillipines>China>Malaysia> Pakistan>Vietnam>next 3rd world mfg country is something of my order of relative quality estimation.

P.S. Leupold (anyone from that company), I didn't buy your laser rangefinder I was looking at because it said Hencho In CHINA on the box. I would rather be without than buy that. Even if F&S says it is a BEST OF.

for Petzal's comment....
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hRZi6dDUIs98KnY1D7uGJy...

sgaredneck

I have a Nikon 800 rangefinder and I believe it was made in Japan, but why would one think it was made in USA with a Nikon brand name ? LOL

I think Leupold imports some, if not all, of their glass from Japan. I think these days one would be hard pressed to find anything made in the USA that does not have components made elsewhere. I just want quality when I lay down my Ben Franklin's.

Try any scope you desire , spend what-ever amount of $ you wish but you will never beat the now deleteted Nikon Monarch 3 x 9 x 40 mounted with Leupold Dual Dove Tail Mounts. This scope is now replaced by a 2.5 x 10 x 42, which I think is silly changes.Now for Zero. What I mean of Zero is to find your center of the target at 100 yds or whatever using a Raangefinder. then shoot the center of the target, be it l00, l50, 200, etc.To me thats Dead on at that zero. Now if zeroed at say 200 yds and your rangefinder says is 300 yds, then raise the gun up to where the cross-hairs are about 4" above the 200 yard spot. Don;t need all these crosses, dots, dashes to know if zeroed at 200 yds and its further, that you must raise your cross hairs accordingly.As for Quality, durability,accuracy, the Nikon can't be beat ( I only hate it's made in China)Now to give Bushnell some credit, they do make a affordable, good scope and it is the Dusk to Dawn with 6" eye relief(3 x 9 x 40) and will not break the bank. I have one on my B/P rifle and it shots to set site in. I also put one on my Daughters pre 64 (NEW IN BOX Model 70 in 270 and it works great for here as she;s only 5' tall and weighs in at 90 lbs.You can spend a ton of $ and buy a well known dcope or go midle of the road and get as good a scope as you can use. My Nikons have withstod 6 trips to the Rockies by plane, and those luggage handlers have tried to break them each trip. So far neither of the 2 I take have lost their zero's. This Crap of buying a 300.00 gun and a 500.00 scope is a bunch of crap.Now the Wally World scopes are not the same scopes you buy from your Mom and Pops stores.Spend about 400-450.00m for the Nikon and wil last you a lifetime and will shoot to point of aim and your zero.Don;t guess on your zero, make Damn sure its zerod for the distance you require or your outfitter suggest.I've had zillions tell me it's zeroed dead o at 200 yds whenthey zeroed it 2' high at 100. Not so, till you zero dead center at 200 yds it's a maybe or guess it will hit at 200 yds. I always zero my guns at exact the distance I want them to be not maybe.So now for the record, buy a New Rem 700 CDL in 30-06, a Nikon 2.5 x10 x 42, zero at 200 yds , buy and shot Rem. 180 gr Scirocco's and you ready to hunt anything in NA other than maybe the Griz, and if hunting Griz's take a pardner along with a 375 or 416 as your back up, PS; Don;t forget a 5 l/2" Marbles($99.95) sheath Knife to skin out your kill.Now Shoot-um-straight and often, after lots of pratice, May I go along with you, to see your smilely face?If not post a Picture of your kill. Yep, it's me, the old southern Gunslinger. PS: I also carry a Uberti 44-40 handgun just in case, as I've seen game come to life after 5-l0 minutes of death(you thought ) and you got a un-chambered rifle in your. hands, then you cry, I did only once.

I understand Nikon scopes are real good. I only have one that is not a Leupold and it is a Sightron S-II 3-9x42 that seems to be brighter and more crisp than the Leupold VX-II or older Vari-X III. So far, it has held zero just fine atop a 7mm Weatherby Magnum, which isn't really a hard kicker as magnums go.

Oh, and there is an old steel tube El Paso, TX Weaver K-4 fine wire crosshair on my 10/22. Pawn shop for $5 and works just fine for the purpose of zero @ 50 yards for varmints in the pond and yard.

CRM 3006;
I'm not selling my 338, I'm still a 338 guy, I just want a 264 Win Mag to take advantage of the excellent hunting bullets available in that caliber. I know a 275 grain or 300 grain 338 bullet will work almost as well, but won't get the velocity (in a Win Mag) and won't have as flat of a trajectory as a 264 with 140grain bullets. Those long bullets buck the wind very well too and should be more than enough to kill deer and caribou out to 4-500 yards. I need a project rifle to work on don't I?

I am giving serious thought to purchasing this scope, the problem is I can't decide on the caliber of my next rifle to put it on. I hunt deer in Oklahoma when I am home, the rifle areas I go to can provide shots from fifteen feet to as far as I feel comfortable shooting. Usually the wind is blowing, so I have to limit my range depending on how hard and the direction. Thanks Dave for the great review.

i think i'll stick to my leupold mark 4. Are bushnells' stepping up in quality?

I am a buyer for a distributor that does a sizable amount of business with Bushnell (and most of the other scopes you'd put on a rifle for that matter). As for these scopes, the ELITE 4200's and 6500's are fantastic scopes for the money. Great Japanese glass. As for the DOA models, there seems to quite a bit of buzz regarding technology that has taken several years for Bushnell to copy. For example the Leupold Boone and Crocket models, Burris Ballistic Plex, and Nikon BDC all have this type of technology and have been around for a while now. Yes, it can be useful to have a range finding/compensating reticle. Where I think the BS is with this scope is it is being marketed to lead the hunter to believe he will be able to make a kill out to 600yds if he uses this scope. Most of us aren't capable (myself included) of a shot in the field beyond 300yds. True, the scope can help you compensate for drop at that distance, but learning to read and dope wind that far out is a whole different skill set a lot of us don't possess. In my opinion, if you want a range finding/drop compensating scope, you can not beat the simple design of a good MIL-DOT reticle.

I shoot a custom rifle (accurized Browning X-Bolt, custom trigger job and bedding).   I also use the Sierra Infinity v6 and the Holland Gold card software packages to create a system to graph my MOA tables based on temptature, humidity and altitude which I prepare before each hunt.  When you combine this system with custom ammo (7mm WSM - batch weighed bullets, precise case work and almost exactly the same FPS per shot), I shoot well under .5 MOA (most in the same hole) at 100 and can hit under 4" groups at 600 all day. 

I range the target by laser or use the Holland Gold card chart for range with the mill dot reticle.  Why say all this?  In about a second after determining distance I can use the playing card sized chart I hang off the side of my scope to get my MOA click value for a tactical style scope turret, dial it in and take a shot that WILL land ecactly where I want every time, no guessing, no wounded animal running off. Wind is the hardest to judge, but I can compensate for it on my charts and practice helps there.

High magnification scopes help me kill more humanely and long distance shots are possible and practical, you just have to use quality stuff and anyone can do it. The rifle work was about $600 and the bullets cost about $10 more per box, both I hire out to do so it doesn't break the bank.  4.5x for shots under 200 yards or quick shots where the bullet shoots flat already, but for longer shots up to my self imposed limit of 750 yards, I want to crank up to 30x.  Any further and there is really some impact power lost on the round and the potential to wound goes up especially on large animals like Elk. 

I do not own the Bushnell Elite Tactical 6500 yet and I was hoping there would be first hand experience on this post for 30x magnification quality. One post said over 20x sucked. I bought the Konus Pro M30 6.5x25 and it sucks over 18x. I'm selling it as soon as my 6500 arrives (Cabelas will price match anyone but don't advertise it).  I hope the 6500 lives up to the hype

The Bushnell Elite is a good thing. Not the best, but very good. Melissa from text twist club.