Please Sign In

Please enter a valid username and password
  • Log in with Facebook
» Not a member? Take a moment to register
» Forgot Username or Password

Why Register?
Signing up could earn you gear (click here to learn how)! It also keeps offensive content off our site.

AnswersASK YOUR QUESTION

Answers

Q:
Why is it, that if you put a rifled barrel on a shotgun for slugs, it is still considered a shotgun and not a rifle?

Question by iron giant. Uploaded on April 24, 2011

Answers (17)

Top Rated
All Answers
from feltcheeks wrote 2 years 51 weeks ago

I believe it is the type of ammunition and range. Granted, it is a lead projectile coming out of rifling the same as a rifle but not at the same velocity (generally). I think it is characterized like that by the feds because by all rights and definitions you are right, it is a rifle. However, shotgun hunting is allowed where rifle is not because the modern rifle round tends to drop around 300-400 yards and has a range of a few miles. Whereas a shotgun round drops around l50 yards (generally)..

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Sticknstringarchery wrote 2 years 51 weeks ago

According to a game warden that taught a hunters safety course I attended, it is because of the construction of the cartridge being the same and the caliber specification being the same also. That was his answer anyways.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from PigHunter wrote 2 years 51 weeks ago

To the US Federal government, it looks like a 'shotgun' is defined by having a smooth bore. Adding a rifled barrel to a 'shotgun' receiver turns it into a rifle. The law does not use type of ammunition in the definition. Otherwise, the use of CCI rat shot in my 10/22 would turn it into a shotgun.

However, individual ststes can define legal hunting firearms to include those 'shotguns' that have a rifled barrel but use a 'shell' for ammunition. Here's the wording in Ohio:

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Default.aspx?tabid=20829
"Shotgun – 10 gauge or smaller using one ball or one rifled slug per barrel (rifled shotgun barrels are permitted when using shotgun slug ammunition) – the shotgun cannot be capable of holding more than 3 shells, unless it is plugged with a one-piece filler which limits the capacity of the gun to 3 shells. The filler must be such that it cannot be removed without disassembling the gun."

http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/18C44.txt
TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE, PART I - CRIMES, CHAPTER 44 - FIREARMS

"(5) The term "shotgun" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of an explosive to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.

"(7) The term "rifle" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of an explosive to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from FirstBubba wrote 2 years 51 weeks ago

Note also, that some "shotgun only" states and "shotgun only" areas, allow muzzleloaders.
A muzzleloader, by all definitions, IS a "rifle".

Bubba

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Beekeeper wrote 2 years 51 weeks ago

Truly a paradox...

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Beekeeper wrote 2 years 51 weeks ago

Looks like someone got!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from DakotaMan wrote 2 years 51 weeks ago

It is still a one to one and a half ounce chunk of lead moving very slow. Many states feel that this projectile won't travel as far or do as much damage to those accidentally hit with it.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from deerhunterrick wrote 2 years 51 weeks ago

Heres 1 more for your boat load. Ohio push passed a bill in July 2010 that disallowed the use of
"Brass Shotgun Casings" for hunting purposes. This was pushed through without the general public ever knowing about it. Why? because of a new .410 shotgun that was developed by Ed Hoening from Greenville,Ohio. It is known as the HBBS .410 , built around the G2 Contender or Encore frame,thus having a break action barrel. The barrel is rifled and shoots a 2.5" .410 shotgun shell loaded with a 375gr lead slug with velocities pushing 2000fps and down range energy about equal with that of a 45/70 government. These guns are capable of sub moa @ 100 yards and have been reported making clean kills out to 200 yards on Deer,hogs and Black Bear. How do I know? I researched it and now own one myself. The accuracy is as stated,very accurate even more so then my D&T Ultra, all I need now is a willing target to prove or disprove the energy claimed. In all reality the .410 is a caliber thus making it a rifle. The true difference of a shotgun and rifle is the size and contents of the projectiles of the weapon. Shotguns are allowed for sporting purposes because they are in fact larger then the .50 caliber limit that would classify them as weapons of mass destruction. That being said,the rules of the shotgun were included to say "smoothbore" becasue of the grandfather clause before the 1968NFA which would have deemed them as such weapons. Throwing out all cultural history of hunting with the scattergun/shotgun opposed to the muzzleloader of yesteryear. I guess that is in where the new ruling came about with "Brass Shotgun Shells" being deemed illegal for hunting purposes in Ohio. The only difference being you can load more pressure in a brass casing then you can a plastic casing. Although the plasstic sheel casing is thicker by comparison, go figure. just my .02 on a dead subject

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from RylieGipson wrote 2 years 51 weeks ago

nice pic pighunter! I think mainly a slugs weight is a lot more than a rifle bullet, thus the range is lots less a rifle bullet can go for miles and miles and a slug can go maby 1 mile maby 1 1/2.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from PigHunter wrote 2 years 51 weeks ago

Thanks Rylie, I like your pic too! Mine is a photo of the emblem on one of my camo hats in observance of Confederate Memorial Day.

Here's some reading material about rifle vs slug gun vs muzzleloader projectile distance.

In the study: a 150-grain SP fired from a .30-06 with a muzzle velocity of 2,910 fps, a 385-grain, 12-gauge, 50-caliber sabot load with a hollowpoint, semi-spitzer projectile at 1,900 fps and, for the muzzleloaders, a 348-grain, 50-caliber CVA Powerbelt projectile at 1,595 fps.

At a maximum firing angle of elevation of 35-degrees, the rifle, shotgun and muzzleloader projectiles travel 13,926', 10,378', and 9,197' respectfully. Because of the angle of descent, there are no ricochets.

At a firing angle of 10-degrees, the rifle, shotgun and muzzleloader projectiles travel 10,004', 7,163' and 6,247' respectfully plus additional ricochet distances of 702', 949' and 913' respectfully.

Ah, but the big surprise comes at 0-degrees of elevation which would be more or less a typical shot at a deer on level terrain. Here the rifle, shotgun and muzzleloader projectiles travel 1,408', 840', and 686' respectfully plus ricochet distances of 3,427', 4,365', and 3,812' respectfully. Now the total distances traveled by the projectiles are 4,835' for the rifle, 5,205' for the shotgun and 4,498' for the muzzleloader.

"The smaller cross sectional area of the .30-caliber projectile and its shape contributes to a higher loss of energy on impact and, after ricochet, the 30-caliber projectile tends to tumble in flight with a high drag. Test data confirm that the 50-caliber projectile's larger cross sectional area and its shape contribute to less energy loss on shallow angles of impact and, after ricochet, the projectile exhibits less drag which results in a greater total distance traveled.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from PigHunter wrote 2 years 51 weeks ago

Can't post the link to the article so if you are interested search forthe following

The "safe" slug myth: shotgun slugs are required in some areas, but why?

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Sourdough Dave wrote 2 years 51 weeks ago

Performance aside, technically speaking, a shoulder fired firearm with a rifled bore is in fact a rifle by deffinition. Now, how that fits into local game laws has nothing to do with the fact that putting a rifled barrel on a shotgun TECHNICALLY makes it a rifle. What they choose to call it for the purposes of a local hunting regulation is their business. and thus being a law is not required to make sense.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from jamesti wrote 2 years 51 weeks ago

it's what you shoot out of it that classifies it either way.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from RylieGipson wrote 2 years 51 weeks ago

also IMO if you put a rifled bore on your shot gun it dont change the speed of the slug but it does make it more accurate.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from iron giant wrote 2 years 51 weeks ago

Thanks guys. So it is basically a legal terminology thing. I knew about the ballistic differences, but even if a slug gun has terrible performance compared to a 30-06 it is still a rifle; TECHNICALLY not LEGALY.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from PigHunter wrote 2 years 51 weeks ago

iron giant, I don't think a slug gun has terrible performance compared to a .30-06 within the accurate range of the slug gun. The animals I've shot with slugs looked like someone had pushed a broom handle through them. Makes a very big hole...

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from RylieGipson wrote 2 years 51 weeks ago

iron giant just look at my pics and look at the b-buck I put a 3/4oz rifled slug in at 40.
http://www.fieldandstream.com/photos/trophyroom/recent/single?pnid=10013...

0 Good Comment? | | Report

Post an Answer

from PigHunter wrote 2 years 51 weeks ago

To the US Federal government, it looks like a 'shotgun' is defined by having a smooth bore. Adding a rifled barrel to a 'shotgun' receiver turns it into a rifle. The law does not use type of ammunition in the definition. Otherwise, the use of CCI rat shot in my 10/22 would turn it into a shotgun.

However, individual ststes can define legal hunting firearms to include those 'shotguns' that have a rifled barrel but use a 'shell' for ammunition. Here's the wording in Ohio:

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Default.aspx?tabid=20829
"Shotgun – 10 gauge or smaller using one ball or one rifled slug per barrel (rifled shotgun barrels are permitted when using shotgun slug ammunition) – the shotgun cannot be capable of holding more than 3 shells, unless it is plugged with a one-piece filler which limits the capacity of the gun to 3 shells. The filler must be such that it cannot be removed without disassembling the gun."

http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/18C44.txt
TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE, PART I - CRIMES, CHAPTER 44 - FIREARMS

"(5) The term "shotgun" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of an explosive to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.

"(7) The term "rifle" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of an explosive to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from feltcheeks wrote 2 years 51 weeks ago

I believe it is the type of ammunition and range. Granted, it is a lead projectile coming out of rifling the same as a rifle but not at the same velocity (generally). I think it is characterized like that by the feds because by all rights and definitions you are right, it is a rifle. However, shotgun hunting is allowed where rifle is not because the modern rifle round tends to drop around 300-400 yards and has a range of a few miles. Whereas a shotgun round drops around l50 yards (generally)..

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Sticknstringarchery wrote 2 years 51 weeks ago

According to a game warden that taught a hunters safety course I attended, it is because of the construction of the cartridge being the same and the caliber specification being the same also. That was his answer anyways.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Beekeeper wrote 2 years 51 weeks ago

Truly a paradox...

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Sourdough Dave wrote 2 years 51 weeks ago

Performance aside, technically speaking, a shoulder fired firearm with a rifled bore is in fact a rifle by deffinition. Now, how that fits into local game laws has nothing to do with the fact that putting a rifled barrel on a shotgun TECHNICALLY makes it a rifle. What they choose to call it for the purposes of a local hunting regulation is their business. and thus being a law is not required to make sense.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from FirstBubba wrote 2 years 51 weeks ago

Note also, that some "shotgun only" states and "shotgun only" areas, allow muzzleloaders.
A muzzleloader, by all definitions, IS a "rifle".

Bubba

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Beekeeper wrote 2 years 51 weeks ago

Looks like someone got!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from DakotaMan wrote 2 years 51 weeks ago

It is still a one to one and a half ounce chunk of lead moving very slow. Many states feel that this projectile won't travel as far or do as much damage to those accidentally hit with it.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from RylieGipson wrote 2 years 51 weeks ago

also IMO if you put a rifled bore on your shot gun it dont change the speed of the slug but it does make it more accurate.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from deerhunterrick wrote 2 years 51 weeks ago

Heres 1 more for your boat load. Ohio push passed a bill in July 2010 that disallowed the use of
"Brass Shotgun Casings" for hunting purposes. This was pushed through without the general public ever knowing about it. Why? because of a new .410 shotgun that was developed by Ed Hoening from Greenville,Ohio. It is known as the HBBS .410 , built around the G2 Contender or Encore frame,thus having a break action barrel. The barrel is rifled and shoots a 2.5" .410 shotgun shell loaded with a 375gr lead slug with velocities pushing 2000fps and down range energy about equal with that of a 45/70 government. These guns are capable of sub moa @ 100 yards and have been reported making clean kills out to 200 yards on Deer,hogs and Black Bear. How do I know? I researched it and now own one myself. The accuracy is as stated,very accurate even more so then my D&T Ultra, all I need now is a willing target to prove or disprove the energy claimed. In all reality the .410 is a caliber thus making it a rifle. The true difference of a shotgun and rifle is the size and contents of the projectiles of the weapon. Shotguns are allowed for sporting purposes because they are in fact larger then the .50 caliber limit that would classify them as weapons of mass destruction. That being said,the rules of the shotgun were included to say "smoothbore" becasue of the grandfather clause before the 1968NFA which would have deemed them as such weapons. Throwing out all cultural history of hunting with the scattergun/shotgun opposed to the muzzleloader of yesteryear. I guess that is in where the new ruling came about with "Brass Shotgun Shells" being deemed illegal for hunting purposes in Ohio. The only difference being you can load more pressure in a brass casing then you can a plastic casing. Although the plasstic sheel casing is thicker by comparison, go figure. just my .02 on a dead subject

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from RylieGipson wrote 2 years 51 weeks ago

nice pic pighunter! I think mainly a slugs weight is a lot more than a rifle bullet, thus the range is lots less a rifle bullet can go for miles and miles and a slug can go maby 1 mile maby 1 1/2.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from PigHunter wrote 2 years 51 weeks ago

Thanks Rylie, I like your pic too! Mine is a photo of the emblem on one of my camo hats in observance of Confederate Memorial Day.

Here's some reading material about rifle vs slug gun vs muzzleloader projectile distance.

In the study: a 150-grain SP fired from a .30-06 with a muzzle velocity of 2,910 fps, a 385-grain, 12-gauge, 50-caliber sabot load with a hollowpoint, semi-spitzer projectile at 1,900 fps and, for the muzzleloaders, a 348-grain, 50-caliber CVA Powerbelt projectile at 1,595 fps.

At a maximum firing angle of elevation of 35-degrees, the rifle, shotgun and muzzleloader projectiles travel 13,926', 10,378', and 9,197' respectfully. Because of the angle of descent, there are no ricochets.

At a firing angle of 10-degrees, the rifle, shotgun and muzzleloader projectiles travel 10,004', 7,163' and 6,247' respectfully plus additional ricochet distances of 702', 949' and 913' respectfully.

Ah, but the big surprise comes at 0-degrees of elevation which would be more or less a typical shot at a deer on level terrain. Here the rifle, shotgun and muzzleloader projectiles travel 1,408', 840', and 686' respectfully plus ricochet distances of 3,427', 4,365', and 3,812' respectfully. Now the total distances traveled by the projectiles are 4,835' for the rifle, 5,205' for the shotgun and 4,498' for the muzzleloader.

"The smaller cross sectional area of the .30-caliber projectile and its shape contributes to a higher loss of energy on impact and, after ricochet, the 30-caliber projectile tends to tumble in flight with a high drag. Test data confirm that the 50-caliber projectile's larger cross sectional area and its shape contribute to less energy loss on shallow angles of impact and, after ricochet, the projectile exhibits less drag which results in a greater total distance traveled.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from PigHunter wrote 2 years 51 weeks ago

Can't post the link to the article so if you are interested search forthe following

The "safe" slug myth: shotgun slugs are required in some areas, but why?

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from jamesti wrote 2 years 51 weeks ago

it's what you shoot out of it that classifies it either way.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from iron giant wrote 2 years 51 weeks ago

Thanks guys. So it is basically a legal terminology thing. I knew about the ballistic differences, but even if a slug gun has terrible performance compared to a 30-06 it is still a rifle; TECHNICALLY not LEGALY.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from PigHunter wrote 2 years 51 weeks ago

iron giant, I don't think a slug gun has terrible performance compared to a .30-06 within the accurate range of the slug gun. The animals I've shot with slugs looked like someone had pushed a broom handle through them. Makes a very big hole...

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from RylieGipson wrote 2 years 51 weeks ago

iron giant just look at my pics and look at the b-buck I put a 3/4oz rifled slug in at 40.
http://www.fieldandstream.com/photos/trophyroom/recent/single?pnid=10013...

0 Good Comment? | | Report

Post an Answer

bmxbiz-fs