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Q:
I have a 264 win mag and I shoot a 130 gr. Berger VLD at +\- 3200 fps with a vortex razor HD scope I have killed elk at ranges past 800 yds. my question is I was wondering how many other people out there still use a 264 win mag for deer and elk hunting or other big game. my second question is i have been debating on shooting 140 gr. but i don't have a lot of reloading data on it so i was wondering what the maximum speeds you can achieve with 140 gr. Berger Vld's.

Question by woolf1987. Uploaded on November 19, 2012

Answers (34)

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from jay wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Wow, killing elk with a rifle @ 800 yards and with a bow @ 100 yards. Your something else!!

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from PAShooter wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

You should be able to achieve 3000+ fps. Look at loads on the internet from reputable sources.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Wonder how many he has crippled. Maybe "woolf" likes to feed the coyotes? Nobody I know uses a 6.5 anything to hunt elk.

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from hengst wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Everyone I know that is truly capable of hitting targets in the 800-1000 yd range using Berger bullets also knows that the best source of reload data is from Walt Berger himself. Or using quick load, or the new reloading manual from Berger or load data dot com

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from jhjimbo wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

That BIG .264 is so much 'over case capacity" for the bore size you will burn the barrel up in no time, especially if you practice a lot to make 800yd shots.
i thought about a .264/06 one time but even considered that too over capacity. i decided on a 6.5x55 and keep my shots a lot closer.

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from woolf1987 wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Well if you go out and practice as much as I get to you won't have any issues reaching out and touching big game. unlike most people i spend at least 1 hr a day shooting my bow and around 3 hr everyday shooting my rifle. to this day the only animal I every shot and did not recover was a Black bear I hit with a bow at 15 yds. so I don't know why you would presume some one would just cripple animals because they shoot long range. And a lot of people shoot 6.5 mm and smaller on elk the 257 Weatherby has been used on elk for years and many people use the 25-06 as well so do your homework before you answer a question you have no knowledge of.

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from woolf1987 wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Not going to lie I replace a barrel at least every other year but high quality Kreger barrels are not too expensive. And the 264 win Mag allows me to choose from a variety of match grade bullets so I can shoot long range my goal is for a 1000 plus yard shot on a bull elk that is why I chose one of the flattest shooting guns on the market.

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from DakotaMan wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

The .264 Win Mag actually launches a very effective hunting bullet for ranges out to 600 yards. However, its popularity has been eclipsed by the 7mm Mag which has similar ballistics with better barrel life. Therefore you don't see too many of them around anymore. I shot one for a little while but moved on due primarily to the cost of barrels and powder.

You should be able to achieve as much as 3000-3100 fps with 140g Bergers. They will give you about 50-75 yards more effective range than the 130s. The 130s maintain sufficient energy to kill a deer or even an elk at about 600-650 yards. The 140s might get you to the 700 yard range. Beyond that they hit more like a .22LR and begin to drop like a brick.

You need to limit your shots to around 600 yards with that rifle and that is still a pretty long shot. According to Berger's ballistic calculator and all of my other calculators, aside from the energy problem, the 130g Berger goes sub-sonic at about 750 yards and the impact point will be erratic beyond that range. If you hit an elk at 800 yards, I would say you are quite fortunate and the elk was very unlucky.

You should be able to view 140g loads on any of the bullet manufacturer's sites or reloading manuals and then load them down 10%, stepping them up gradually while you look for signs of excessive pressure and improvements in accuracy.

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from Ol Krusty wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Real bad ass shooters don't flex nuts, cuz real bad ass shooters know they got em.

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from Ol Krusty wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Dad had a 264 when I was growing up and he shot elk with it, and yes it is a fine elk rifle used with a 140gr Swift A Frame. However, like many people on this web site, I am a strong advocate of fair chase. 800 yards is to far of a shot for any big game, especially ones like elk that deserve our absolute respect. My friend put 5 shots into his elk this year with his 300 WSM before it finally took its last breath. All five shots went into its chest with three blowing out his lungs at 250 yards. Elk are tenacious animals with one hell of a will to live.

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from woolf1987 wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

I see your point but I also beleve that long range hunting is fair chase because of the time it takes to get good at long range shots I would never take a shot that would wound or cripple an animal so I see it both ways but I have a goal for a 1000 yd bull kill and I won't stop tell I get one

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from jay wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

If you don't mind me asking, how much do you spend on ammo in a year if you are shooting 3 hours per day?

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from woolf1987 wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Even with reloading and my ammo sponser I spend about 4000 dollars a year on reloading supply's and ammo

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from Ol Krusty wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Woolf
What MOA or MIL adjustments do you make out to 1000k ?
What do you use to dope the wind?

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from woolf1987 wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

I use MOA. Right know to reach 1000 yd I am shooting a 130 gr. Berger VLD at 3200 fps at the altitude of 6000 feet is were I hunt and live I am -21.57 MOA or -225.92 inches. Right know I am Shooting about 1/2 MOA at 1000 yd. on a good day i can get it down to 1/4 MOA. I use a wind meter by Huskemaw Optics. and had a custom reticule that is set up so i can use the hold over hash marks. each are set up for 10 mph so i can hold over for up to 40 mph. this system is pretty accurate. could be better but its what am using right know and i don't want to change what works.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Uh oh, one of those "Best of the West" boys. Should have known by the modesty.....

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from woolf1987 wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

not at Like best of the west I do have a custom gun that was put together by my gunsmith with parts I wanted like a BAT action a modular Rifle stock and a fluted 28 inch kreger barrel. and yes it did cost me more then a rifle off the shelf. the only thing i have in common with those boys is my wind meter and the fact i enjoy long rang hunting. my optics are from vortex and my range finder is a lica 1600 so if you want to put me in the same class as those guys i am honored

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from jay wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

$4000 @ 365 days per year comes out to about $11 per day. You must have a great source for ammo supplies; I could burn up $11 of .22's in 3 hours.

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from woolf1987 wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

like i said that is my cost i have a sponsor that pays for 90% of my ammo. I shoot for there competitive long range team so Ammo is not my biggest expense. I am lucky to have the opportunity to have a great sponsor, And get to shoot every day

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Must also be independently wealthy to not have to work and spend that much time on the range. Just sayin'

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

jay,

I can burn up that much .300 Roy in about 6 minutes.

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from jay wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Wam - yeah about a cartridge per minute if your dealing with weatherby factory rounds.

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from jay wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Check that - every 2 minutes!!!!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from woolf1987 wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

LOL independently wealth i wish. I do have a awesome job that allows me to afford my hobbies. and make my own hours. so i go in early and get off in time to go shoot and it helps that my father has built a indoor shooting range that goes to 1200 yds that i can use year round for free. I also have a ammo sponsor that is awesome and allows me to shoot everyday. when i look at my last year sponsor donations. i received almost $50,000 in ammo from my sponsors. and you would be surprised how much ammo money you can get by sweeping or picking up brass at a shooting range. I also worked out a deal with a local gun shop to trade brass for reloading supplies so that saves me tons. also it only me no kids or wife. all i have to worry about is me and my dog and my house payment so i can shoot when ever i want.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ol Krusty wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

WAM, Burn that much ammo up in your 300 Roy? That makes my arthritis act up just thinking about it.

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from woolf1987 wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

i agree thats why i shoot 264 win mag and practice with 308

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Krusty,

Doesn't take long to burn up $11 worth of Weatherby ammo! About 4 rounds, LOL! I handload all my Roy ammo and .35 Whelen, too. About a buck a round with premium bullets like Barnes TTSX or Accubonds. I can't afford the chiropractor co-pays for more than about 20 rounds per session. I practice marksmanship with a .257 Roberts and a .308 Win which are set up similarly to the big dogs.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from woolf1987 wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

WA Mtnhunter has a huge point as long as your 223 or 308 is set up the same as your hunting and target gun you can afford to shoot a lot more and build your shooting skills and become a better shot. I even have a a 22 LR that i use as a training gun to practice breathing, trigger squeeze and shooting in different situations. the more you practice the better you are. the skill of shooting is very perishable and taking out the old .22 LR and shooting cans can keep your shooting skills strong.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from jhjimbo wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

wolf
What do you do for your ammo sponsor in return for all the ammo?

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from woolf1987 wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

i test a lot of new ammo for long range use and ballistic performance. I also shoot F-Class and teach long range shooting classes at my fathers gun range. my f-class rifle looks like a nascar with all my sponsors stickers. i write a lot of reviews on new ammo and how practical it is for long range use. I love testing and writing about the results. i also like to find the ballistic's i can for my rifles. that is how i came to the conclusion that 6.5mm is an amazing flat bullet with all the potential of being able to make a 1000 yd bull kill with out getting beat up with the recoil of a 300 RUM or other ultra mag.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Jerry A. wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Your father has a 1200 yard indoor range? I call bull sh--.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ol Krusty wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

WAM,
Do you hunt with your Whelen much anymore? When I was out hunting elk with my 300, that GD 26" barrel was getting in the way of everything and made me wish I had my 270 with its 22" barrel. I'm thinking about a dedicated thick timber elk rifle in the vicinity of a 35 whelen, 358 Norma, or even 9.3x62. Hell, maybe I should just get me a good ol 06 and stoke it with 220 grainers. Not sure I'll be able to get it before this next years elk hunt, or if I'll even make up my mind by then, but just asking.

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from woolf1987 wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

A few years ago i started carrying 2 rifles when elk and mule deer hunting i carry my old trusty 264 win mag and i ended up winning a lever action marlin 45-70 and that is what i use if i am going to push draws and be in thick timber all day. i only use my 264 if i am hunting some wear i can get a good shot a long ways out so its good to have two hunting rifles for different situations you might in counter while hunting out west.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Krusty,

I tote my .35 Whelen almost every opening day of my elk hunt. There are several areas that I hunt where it is a practical rifle. It is a 22 inch barrel and handy in the timber as well. With 225 grain bullets, I better the 220 gr '06 by quite a bit. I am comfortable shooting out to 300 yards and a bit more under favorable conditions. The .358 Norma is a bit much in the recoil department to suit me. My .300 Roy isn't that bad and the 7mm Wby is no worse than my .30-06 for recoil. I'm sitting here looking at a tray of .35W brass already resized that needs loading. Maybe after duck season.

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from Ol Krusty wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Dad had a 264 when I was growing up and he shot elk with it, and yes it is a fine elk rifle used with a 140gr Swift A Frame. However, like many people on this web site, I am a strong advocate of fair chase. 800 yards is to far of a shot for any big game, especially ones like elk that deserve our absolute respect. My friend put 5 shots into his elk this year with his 300 WSM before it finally took its last breath. All five shots went into its chest with three blowing out his lungs at 250 yards. Elk are tenacious animals with one hell of a will to live.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Uh oh, one of those "Best of the West" boys. Should have known by the modesty.....

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from jay wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Wow, killing elk with a rifle @ 800 yards and with a bow @ 100 yards. Your something else!!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from PAShooter wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

You should be able to achieve 3000+ fps. Look at loads on the internet from reputable sources.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Wonder how many he has crippled. Maybe "woolf" likes to feed the coyotes? Nobody I know uses a 6.5 anything to hunt elk.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from hengst wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Everyone I know that is truly capable of hitting targets in the 800-1000 yd range using Berger bullets also knows that the best source of reload data is from Walt Berger himself. Or using quick load, or the new reloading manual from Berger or load data dot com

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from jhjimbo wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

That BIG .264 is so much 'over case capacity" for the bore size you will burn the barrel up in no time, especially if you practice a lot to make 800yd shots.
i thought about a .264/06 one time but even considered that too over capacity. i decided on a 6.5x55 and keep my shots a lot closer.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from woolf1987 wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Well if you go out and practice as much as I get to you won't have any issues reaching out and touching big game. unlike most people i spend at least 1 hr a day shooting my bow and around 3 hr everyday shooting my rifle. to this day the only animal I every shot and did not recover was a Black bear I hit with a bow at 15 yds. so I don't know why you would presume some one would just cripple animals because they shoot long range. And a lot of people shoot 6.5 mm and smaller on elk the 257 Weatherby has been used on elk for years and many people use the 25-06 as well so do your homework before you answer a question you have no knowledge of.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from woolf1987 wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Not going to lie I replace a barrel at least every other year but high quality Kreger barrels are not too expensive. And the 264 win Mag allows me to choose from a variety of match grade bullets so I can shoot long range my goal is for a 1000 plus yard shot on a bull elk that is why I chose one of the flattest shooting guns on the market.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from DakotaMan wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

The .264 Win Mag actually launches a very effective hunting bullet for ranges out to 600 yards. However, its popularity has been eclipsed by the 7mm Mag which has similar ballistics with better barrel life. Therefore you don't see too many of them around anymore. I shot one for a little while but moved on due primarily to the cost of barrels and powder.

You should be able to achieve as much as 3000-3100 fps with 140g Bergers. They will give you about 50-75 yards more effective range than the 130s. The 130s maintain sufficient energy to kill a deer or even an elk at about 600-650 yards. The 140s might get you to the 700 yard range. Beyond that they hit more like a .22LR and begin to drop like a brick.

You need to limit your shots to around 600 yards with that rifle and that is still a pretty long shot. According to Berger's ballistic calculator and all of my other calculators, aside from the energy problem, the 130g Berger goes sub-sonic at about 750 yards and the impact point will be erratic beyond that range. If you hit an elk at 800 yards, I would say you are quite fortunate and the elk was very unlucky.

You should be able to view 140g loads on any of the bullet manufacturer's sites or reloading manuals and then load them down 10%, stepping them up gradually while you look for signs of excessive pressure and improvements in accuracy.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ol Krusty wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Real bad ass shooters don't flex nuts, cuz real bad ass shooters know they got em.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from jay wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

If you don't mind me asking, how much do you spend on ammo in a year if you are shooting 3 hours per day?

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from woolf1987 wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Even with reloading and my ammo sponser I spend about 4000 dollars a year on reloading supply's and ammo

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ol Krusty wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Woolf
What MOA or MIL adjustments do you make out to 1000k ?
What do you use to dope the wind?

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from woolf1987 wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

I use MOA. Right know to reach 1000 yd I am shooting a 130 gr. Berger VLD at 3200 fps at the altitude of 6000 feet is were I hunt and live I am -21.57 MOA or -225.92 inches. Right know I am Shooting about 1/2 MOA at 1000 yd. on a good day i can get it down to 1/4 MOA. I use a wind meter by Huskemaw Optics. and had a custom reticule that is set up so i can use the hold over hash marks. each are set up for 10 mph so i can hold over for up to 40 mph. this system is pretty accurate. could be better but its what am using right know and i don't want to change what works.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from woolf1987 wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

not at Like best of the west I do have a custom gun that was put together by my gunsmith with parts I wanted like a BAT action a modular Rifle stock and a fluted 28 inch kreger barrel. and yes it did cost me more then a rifle off the shelf. the only thing i have in common with those boys is my wind meter and the fact i enjoy long rang hunting. my optics are from vortex and my range finder is a lica 1600 so if you want to put me in the same class as those guys i am honored

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from woolf1987 wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

like i said that is my cost i have a sponsor that pays for 90% of my ammo. I shoot for there competitive long range team so Ammo is not my biggest expense. I am lucky to have the opportunity to have a great sponsor, And get to shoot every day

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from woolf1987 wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

LOL independently wealth i wish. I do have a awesome job that allows me to afford my hobbies. and make my own hours. so i go in early and get off in time to go shoot and it helps that my father has built a indoor shooting range that goes to 1200 yds that i can use year round for free. I also have a ammo sponsor that is awesome and allows me to shoot everyday. when i look at my last year sponsor donations. i received almost $50,000 in ammo from my sponsors. and you would be surprised how much ammo money you can get by sweeping or picking up brass at a shooting range. I also worked out a deal with a local gun shop to trade brass for reloading supplies so that saves me tons. also it only me no kids or wife. all i have to worry about is me and my dog and my house payment so i can shoot when ever i want.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from woolf1987 wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

i agree thats why i shoot 264 win mag and practice with 308

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Krusty,

Doesn't take long to burn up $11 worth of Weatherby ammo! About 4 rounds, LOL! I handload all my Roy ammo and .35 Whelen, too. About a buck a round with premium bullets like Barnes TTSX or Accubonds. I can't afford the chiropractor co-pays for more than about 20 rounds per session. I practice marksmanship with a .257 Roberts and a .308 Win which are set up similarly to the big dogs.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from woolf1987 wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

WA Mtnhunter has a huge point as long as your 223 or 308 is set up the same as your hunting and target gun you can afford to shoot a lot more and build your shooting skills and become a better shot. I even have a a 22 LR that i use as a training gun to practice breathing, trigger squeeze and shooting in different situations. the more you practice the better you are. the skill of shooting is very perishable and taking out the old .22 LR and shooting cans can keep your shooting skills strong.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from woolf1987 wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

i test a lot of new ammo for long range use and ballistic performance. I also shoot F-Class and teach long range shooting classes at my fathers gun range. my f-class rifle looks like a nascar with all my sponsors stickers. i write a lot of reviews on new ammo and how practical it is for long range use. I love testing and writing about the results. i also like to find the ballistic's i can for my rifles. that is how i came to the conclusion that 6.5mm is an amazing flat bullet with all the potential of being able to make a 1000 yd bull kill with out getting beat up with the recoil of a 300 RUM or other ultra mag.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Jerry A. wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Your father has a 1200 yard indoor range? I call bull sh--.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from woolf1987 wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

A few years ago i started carrying 2 rifles when elk and mule deer hunting i carry my old trusty 264 win mag and i ended up winning a lever action marlin 45-70 and that is what i use if i am going to push draws and be in thick timber all day. i only use my 264 if i am hunting some wear i can get a good shot a long ways out so its good to have two hunting rifles for different situations you might in counter while hunting out west.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from woolf1987 wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

I see your point but I also beleve that long range hunting is fair chase because of the time it takes to get good at long range shots I would never take a shot that would wound or cripple an animal so I see it both ways but I have a goal for a 1000 yd bull kill and I won't stop tell I get one

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from jay wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

$4000 @ 365 days per year comes out to about $11 per day. You must have a great source for ammo supplies; I could burn up $11 of .22's in 3 hours.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Must also be independently wealthy to not have to work and spend that much time on the range. Just sayin'

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

jay,

I can burn up that much .300 Roy in about 6 minutes.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from jay wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Wam - yeah about a cartridge per minute if your dealing with weatherby factory rounds.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from jay wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Check that - every 2 minutes!!!!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ol Krusty wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

WAM, Burn that much ammo up in your 300 Roy? That makes my arthritis act up just thinking about it.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from jhjimbo wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

wolf
What do you do for your ammo sponsor in return for all the ammo?

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ol Krusty wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

WAM,
Do you hunt with your Whelen much anymore? When I was out hunting elk with my 300, that GD 26" barrel was getting in the way of everything and made me wish I had my 270 with its 22" barrel. I'm thinking about a dedicated thick timber elk rifle in the vicinity of a 35 whelen, 358 Norma, or even 9.3x62. Hell, maybe I should just get me a good ol 06 and stoke it with 220 grainers. Not sure I'll be able to get it before this next years elk hunt, or if I'll even make up my mind by then, but just asking.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Krusty,

I tote my .35 Whelen almost every opening day of my elk hunt. There are several areas that I hunt where it is a practical rifle. It is a 22 inch barrel and handy in the timber as well. With 225 grain bullets, I better the 220 gr '06 by quite a bit. I am comfortable shooting out to 300 yards and a bit more under favorable conditions. The .358 Norma is a bit much in the recoil department to suit me. My .300 Roy isn't that bad and the 7mm Wby is no worse than my .30-06 for recoil. I'm sitting here looking at a tray of .35W brass already resized that needs loading. Maybe after duck season.

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